Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[Jeremias]

Look, there’s a lot here that I’m loathe to get stuck responding to, and frankly there’s better things to do with my time.

I see. Can’t say I’m surprised that you’ve decided not to answer any of the questions asked.

Probably would’ve been quicker than the word salad you followed up with, but each to their own I guess.

 

[phantom13]

Look, there’s a lot here that I’m loathe to get stuck responding to, and frankly there’s better things to do with my time. However, in terms of whether Saints were able to score enough in 2009, the cold hard facts say they were:

• Not many teams score 100+ points every second week. Fyi, Collingwood scored 100+ throughout home and away games last year only 10 times (compared to Saints 12 in ‘09). I would say 12/22 is fairly regular as far as standards going for putting out these sort of scores..
• Additionally, Saints scored 90+ six times in the home away rounds of ‘09, so scoring clearly wasn’t an issue throughout that year.
• There’s a strong argument that scoring has only become easier in the time since ‘09 with 6-6-6 and man on the mark, so scores for at this time does stack up.
• Saints held the highest percentage of 155.7 that year, top 4 scores for, so game plan was clearly effective enough to get them to the big dance.

Its one year out of all of Ross years though and its still alot lower than our ladder position..

If its become easier to score then why, just last year, did we finish 6th but were 14th in points for?

There are defenses to be made of Ross to be sure but people trying like hell to pretend hes not a defense first (and in some cases defense ONLY) isnt one of them.

Posted this earlier and i think Rohan Connolly has now stolen my gear but...

2010 - 1935 points for at an average of 87, puts us 8th for scoring for the year (noting there was a big discrepancy between the top 8 and the bottom 8 that we bridged, the next highest was 2017 to Sydney and the next lowest was 1930 to North and Essendon).

2013 - To extend it a bit further Freo in their GF year were 11th in points for with 2035 at 92.

2023 - St.Kilda last year 14th in points for (we finished 6th for the record) with 1775 (Collingwood had 2142) at 77 per game.

2024 - St.Kilda this year 14th in points for averaging 74 per game. Worth noting its a pretty historically bad bottom 4 that were JUST sitting above (Hawthorn averaging 70 per game)

09 is, if anything, an anomoly and we still scored less than our ladder position.

Its not inherently bad to be defense first but when it comes at the expense of scoring almost altogether it becomes a problem.

Worth noting too that over the weekend West Coast passed us on the points for table. Were now 15th in points for.

Its a problem and its one that seems to have followed Ross his whole career.

 

[Red Bull]

A big concern for them as it stands is how much faith they’ve put in RTB, and allowed him to surround the whole club with his guys. Think of all the staff on the periphery who have been shot out of the club, yet they’re not the ones who play this dour footy. Messiahs are great until they run out of form, and RTB and even Clarko haven’t been winners for a long long time. It’ll take a gutsy call but RTB is not a rebuilding coach

As you say, the president has given Ross the keys to the club.
If he were to make a move on Ross, he himself would need to tender his resignation immediately.
So for the Saints going forward, for better or worse … they’re locked in to RTB …

 

[littlecreatures]

Its one year out of all of Ross years though and its still alot lower than our ladder position..

If its become easier to score then why, just last year, did we finish 6th but were 14th in points for?

There are defenses to be made of Ross to be sure but people trying like hell to pretend hes not a defense first (and in some cases defense ONLY) isnt one of them.

Posted this earlier and i think Rohan Connolly has now stolen my gear but...

2010 - 1935 points for at an average of 87, puts us 8th for scoring for the year (noting there was a big discrepancy between the top 8 and the bottom 8 that we bridged, the next highest was 2017 to Sydney and the next lowest was 1930 to North and Essendon).

2013 - To extend it a bit further Freo in their GF year were 11th in points for with 2035 at 92.

2023 - St.Kilda last year 14th in points for (we finished 6th for the record) with 1775 (Collingwood had 2142) at 77 per game.

2024 - St.Kilda this year 14th in points for averaging 74 per game. Worth noting its a pretty historically bad bottom 4 that were JUST sitting above (Hawthorn averaging 70 per game)

09 is, if anything, an anomoly and we still scored less than our ladder position.

Its not inherently bad to be defense first but when it comes at the expense of scoring almost altogether it becomes a problem.

Worth noting too that over the weekend West Coast passed us on the points for table. Were now 15th in points for.

Its a problem and its one that seems to have followed Ross his whole career.

Agree mate, but this is what people wanted to get fixated on, whether 12/22 games at 100 points or more in 2009 is ‘regular’ lol.

 

[littlecreatures]

I see. Can’t say I’m surprised that you’ve decided not to answer any of the questions asked.

Probably would’ve been quicker than the word salad you followed up with, but each to their own I guess.

Cool, thanks.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Love how the “Carlton in No Man’s Land” thread gets moved to Bay 13 but this shitshow thread continues on the main board.

This thread on a week by week basis is one of two things.
1: St Kilda fans going "See I told you so" after a win
2: Opposition fans taking thinly veiled swipes after a loss.

 

[The Nostradamus]

This thread on a week by week basis is one of two things.
1: St Kilda fans going "See I told you so" after a win
2: Opposition fans taking thinly veiled swipes after a loss.

“I told you so” isn’t vindicated after just a win

saints have been stuck in the middle so one win doesn’t change that

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

“I told you so” isn’t vindicated after just a win

saints have been stuck in the middle so one win doesn’t change that

The told you so is basically where x,y and z get proven right one week.

My point is basically this thread is Saints fans coming out of the woodwork to celebrate after a win and everyone else coming out to sink the boot in after a loss.

 

[WillHayward]

People can change but first they have to admit they have a problem.

Ross refuses to admit the low scoring is a problem and it's his game plan that isn't quite right.

Whenever a journo brings it up in a press conference he gets defensive and has a go at them and denies it's a problem.

 

[ScrappyDo]

A big concern for them as it stands is how much faith they’ve put in RTB, and allowed him to surround the whole club with his guys. Think of all the staff on the periphery who have been shot out of the club, yet they’re not the ones who play this dour footy. Messiahs are great until they run out of form, and RTB and even Clarko haven’t been winners for a long long time. It’ll take a gutsy call but RTB is not a rebuilding coach

Not really.
The club hired Geoff Walsh to head up football but he left for personal reasons, or so he said. He may have just been hired to execute Ratten.

They tried to get Cripps over as list manager but he turned it down so SOS was asked to come at short notice.

Dalrymple is not an RTB boy

Hayes and Goddard claim they were heading to Stkilda prior to any of the RTB bizzo and we're ignorant to it.

They kept Batchelor and Enright plus other key footy dpt staff.

Harvey and Misson are the only ones that were clearly pulled in by Ross which is fair enough.

 

[littlecreatures]

People can change but first they have to admit they have a problem.

Ross refuses to admit the low scoring is a problem and it's his game plan that isn't quite right.

Whenever a journo brings it up in a press conference he gets defensive and has a go at them and denies it's a problem.

Trust you to keep this thread warm and fuzzy I think Saints and the club have a pretty good hold where the issues lie, sadly 10 rounds of defensive or attacking footy isn’t going to fix it.

You can only have so many recruitment mares over a 10-15 year period before it starts to show, with our midfield being the worst hit.

This is worth a read if you want to objectively dissect some of the issues at present (you seem quite invested, lol!) - https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/te...s/news-story/57576f572f04edca5038a53f9389f950

 

[Freomaniac]

Keep doing what we've done The last couple years.

Actually using our draft picks. And giving them opportunities.

In the last 3 drafts St Kilda used all their picks. The only deal was a future 2nd rounder for Henry. Which I approve based on Henry's production so far.

And Henry is 22. Not like past deals for older players.

This has been a different strategy to the previous decade.

From 2011 - 2020 St Kilda traded their 1st rounder too many times. If you exclude Jade Gresham who was drafted right at the end of the first round, at pick 18 in 2015, then St Kilda only drafted in the first round 5 times in 10 years. In 2011, 2012, and 2020 our first pick was in the mid 20s. In 2019 it was pick 52!

No wonder St Kilda lacks elite talent.

But the strategy over the last couple of years has been good, and it should continue.

I'd define a "kid" as someone 21 or under.

On that basis St Kilda is playing more kids than almost anyone else. Eg:

- When we played Essendon it was 7 kids playing for St Kilda, 2 for Essendon

- Vs GWS it was 7-3.

- vs Collingwood 5-2.

- vs Dogs 7-4.

- Even against North Melbourne it was 7-8.

- Hawthorn it was 6-9 but Hawthorn's 9 included 4 21 year olds.

No guarantee St Kilda's youth become quality AFL players. But, we're giving more kids opportunities than most other teams right now.

Just continue that and see how things evolve.

The great myth that Ross Lyon never played kids is dead and buried.

Dockers drafted a moderate amount of kids in the 2016-18 drafts when Ross Lyon was still coach.

Ross Lyon made finals last season with an average of moderate saints side.

Ross Lyon learnt to play youth in moderation in 2023. Sometimes he was forced to do it when senior players were injured

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

A big concern for them as it stands is how much faith they’ve put in RTB, and allowed him to surround the whole club with his guys. Think of all the staff on the periphery who have been shot out of the club, yet they’re not the ones who play this dour footy. Messiahs are great until they run out of form, and RTB and even Clarko haven’t been winners for a long long time. It’ll take a gutsy call but RTB is not a rebuilding coach

To be fair, they sucked for a long time before Lyon came along. They hardly booted a bunch of world beaters from the joint.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Trust you to keep this thread warm and fuzzy I think Saints and the club have a pretty good hold where the issues lie, sadly 10 rounds of defensive or attacking footy isn’t going to fix it.

You can only have so many recruitment mares over a 10-15 year period before it starts to show, with our midfield being the worst hit.

This is worth a read if you want to objectively dissect some of the issues at present (you seem quite invested, lol!) - https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/te...s/news-story/57576f572f04edca5038a53f9389f950

I loved the bloke but Joey has a massive blind spot when it comes to Ross so you can’t take what he says objectively.

He’s one of Ross’s disciples and was actively cheering for him to get the coaches role.

He’s simply going into bat for a mate and turning the spotlight from Ross onto the list.

The level of analysis is so low in the AFL viewing public that people will swallow what he’s providing as analysis.

Ross’s game style in 2024 is the problem.

When Joey played, Ross was ahead of the pack.

But now, not only is he right back in the pack when it comes to coaching, his turgid, unimaginative style is actually a massive hindrance to development.

Because Ross and his type of defensive coaches are pathological and will never change, we are stuck with a busted flush of a coach, whose game style does the opposite of developing kids to execute skills in the modern game.

Many St Kilda fans, like their president, will continue to put their head in the sand, and now you’ll see a massive blaming of the list.

It’s not much better than a cult at this stage, with the level some go to defend Ross.

And it’s just not logical. His prehistoric tactics were already out of date at the end of his Freo tenure.

Even worse now, don’t be fooled by sneaking into the finals last year.

 

[DieselKernahan]

I was dead against Lyon being signed by the Blues (and wasn't that keen on Voss coaching the Blues either for the record - still a bit uneasy about him). His record in the last 4 yrs at freo was horrible and he was accordingly sacked. To add to that was the unsavoury sexual harrassment scandal that resulted in a non-disclosure settlement. Not sure if it got buried in the media or just got forgotten about outside WA.

The game and rules have changed a lot in the past 10 yrs - interchange caps, 6-6-6 rule, runner restrictions, etc. AFL wants faster games, higher scoring, excitement, and will keep tweaking the rules to try ensure it. For what it's worth I don't think the Saints list is that bad, they're underachieving at the moment, but just not sure Lyon is willing to cede to his assistants to tactically change things around on game day.

 

[TheUnicorn]

I don't rate Ridley (opinion) if you disagree then fine but to make out like your opinion is more valid because ...
And also I never said Paddy Dow left a hole, The point you keep misinterpreting is that we were missing players in the Hawks game as well not just Hawthorn and an area we struggled was inside midfielders (Dow and Crouch).
You keep attacking me for an opinion but I don't understand why, if you don't like my opinion make a comment and move on but I keep seeing you having a go at me for no reason. It's really sad.

First game back 14 intercepts, 3 contested marks, 759 meters gained, 1 goal and a medal to boot.

 

[Mat Mann]

First game back 14 intercepts, 3 contested marks, 759 meters gained, 1 goal and a medal to boot.

Richmond: 1 and 10 with % of 61 and 17 odd on the injury list

nice flex

 

[TheUnicorn]

Richmond: 1 and 10 with % of 61 and 17 odd on the injury list

nice flex

This is such a moronic response that I don't even know how to respond.

Someone should tell Zorko and Neale, who were best on ground last week, that they aren't actually good because they played against the Tigers. Or tell Treloar and Bont that they aren't good because they were best on ground against the Tigers. Or Luke Ryan, Serong, and Young, because they played against the Tigers!

Should I continue?

It's crazy how all the best players on the ground against the Tigers seem to be that team's best players. It doesn't matter who they were playing against - they were best on ground above all other players. Yet, apparently, old mate doesn't rate Ridley. Lmao.

 

[Atomboy]

On a happy note, this thread now has more replies than the “AFL lookalikes” thread.

Clearly topical

 

[DeathlyAccurate]

They’re our only chance to lose the record for longest premiership drought.

Just need them to stay in no mans land for another 15 years or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[phantom13]

I loved the bloke but Joey has a massive blind spot when it comes to Ross so you can’t take what he says objectively.

He’s one of Ross’s disciples and was actively cheering for him to get the coaches role.

He’s simply going into bat for a mate and turning the spotlight from Ross onto the list.

The level of analysis is so low in the AFL viewing public that people will swallow what he’s providing as analysis.

Ross’s game style in 2024 is the problem.

When Joey played, Ross was ahead of the pack.

But now, not only is he right back in the pack when it comes to coaching, his turgid, unimaginative style is actually a massive hindrance to development.

Because Ross and his I’ll of defensive coaches are pathological and have I’ll never change, we are stuck with a busted flush of a coach, whose game style does the opposite of developing kids to execute skills in the modern game.

Many St Kilda fans, like their president, will continue to put their head in the sand, and now you’ll see a massive blaming of the list.

It’s not much better than a cult at this stage, with the level some go to defend Ross.

And it’s just not logical. His prehistoric tactics were already out of date at the end of his Freo tenure.

Even worse now, don’t be fooled by kicking into the finals last year.

Yeh bang on. Joey has basically said we’re not bad with ball movement because we can retain the footy between full back and high half forward with slow short chip mark gamestyle.

The bit he’s missing is modern defence don’t give a shit if you have the ball on a string there cause you can’t score.

What’s the stat on retention going inside 50? Or using the corridor to transition defence into attack? Cause I’m tipping they are both ****ing awful.

It’s proper Rossball to retain possesion, be set defensively at the expense of being able to attack and score and frankly it’s killing our team with ugly footy and sucking the creativity and dare a fair few of our boys naturally have. Philipou being the most visually obvious one.

 

[kreuze_missile]

How did this team make finals last year?

Bottom 4 worthy.

 

[Substance]

They have exited no mans land. They're getting a good draft pick

 

[southern_crusher]

They play such a boring shit on a stick brand of footy.

 

[kreuze_missile]

All the salary cap in the world and no-one wants to go there.

Saints are the kind of club that will offer Jake Stringer

25

Jake Stringer

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.8

5star

D

8.5

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

1.5

1star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

4star

G

2.5

5star

D

7.2

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

$1.5M a year for the next 5.