Analysis Swans General Performance 2024

[The King!]

Was bored so looked at tackles for what it's worth.

Pre bye we averaged 65 tackles a game and lost once.

Post bye we average 50 tackles a game and we are 4-3

In Wins we average 63 tackles and in losses we average 47 tackles.


Tackle more you lazy bastards

 

[caesar88]

Was bored so looked at tackles for what it's worth.

Pre bye we averaged 65 tackles a game and lost once.

Post bye we average 50 tackles a game and we are 4-3

In Wins we average 63 tackles and in losses we average 47 tackles.


Tackle more you lazy bastards

I completely agree, but I'm in two minds as to how we avoid this pattern.

On the one hand my constant thought throughout our losses has been: This is on us. We're not tackling enough, our pressure isn't up to standard, the physicality's not there.

But on the other hand I've found myself often thinking over the last few years... maybe this group just aren't that good at this area of the game?

 

[The King!]

I completely agree, but I'm in two minds as to how we avoid this pattern.

On the one hand my constant thought throughout our losses has been: This is on us. We're not tackling enough, our pressure isn't up to standard, the physicality's not there.

But on the other hand I've found myself often thinking over the last few years... maybe this group just aren't that good at this area of the game?

They don't have to be great they just have to be as good as they have been most of the year though.

I also have no idea how you fix it other than tackle more boys .

Stop letting teams chip it around so much .

 

[Kiama Chris]

I completely agree, but I'm in two minds as to how we avoid this pattern.

On the one hand my constant thought throughout our losses has been: This is on us. We're not tackling enough, our pressure isn't up to standard, the physicality's not there.

But on the other hand I've found myself often thinking over the last few years... maybe this group just aren't that good at this area of the game?

IMO the tackle numbers are down because our pressure is down. Simple equation - we are not close enough to our opposition to tackle them. Partly our effort/anticipation and partly their preparation. Fixing it though.....

 

[caesar88]

They don't have to be great they just have to be as good as they have been most of the year though.

I also have no idea how you fix it other than tackle more boys .

Stop letting teams chip it around so much .

I don't know that you can fix it. You can either do it or you can't. It's not really a matter of just having the endeavour to do it, otherwise I think players like Hayward or Lloyd would be good tacklers.

I said a few weeks back that I hope we try to target players in the off-season who have physicality and hardness as a standout attribute. Feels like if there is a lack of any type on our list, it's that type.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Obviously losing 3 out of the last 4 has skewed things a little for us but for what its worth

 

[The King!]

Obviously losing 3 out of the last 4 has skewed things a little for us but for what its worth

still pretty good if that was 11 rounds in you'd take it

 

[The King!]

I don't know that you can fix it. You can either do it or you can't. It's not really a matter of just having the endeavour to do it, otherwise I think players like Hayward or Lloyd would be good tacklers.

I said a few weeks back that I hope we try to target players in the off-season who have physicality and hardness as a standout attribute. Feels like if there is a lack of any type on our list, it's that type.

Maybe Parker can bring it in games he isn't the sub against North

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

still pretty good if that was 11 rounds in you'd take it

Yer of course i think tho as the season has gone on (long bloody season) we have slightly dropped back to around the level of the top 5 sides.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I don't know that you can fix it. You can either do it or you can't. It's not really a matter of just having the endeavour to do it, otherwise I think players like Hayward or Lloyd would be good tacklers.

I said a few weeks back that I hope we try to target players in the off-season who have physicality and hardness as a standout attribute. Feels like if there is a lack of any type on our list, it's that type.

Perhaps it belongs in the unpopular opinions thread but carrying Lloyd's lack of one-on-one defence hurts us. Problem is that Florent is also not very strong either. And Campbell. As I've said, when I see those three together I get cold shivers.

 

[caesar88]

Perhaps it belongs in the unpopular opinions thread but carrying Lloyd's lack of one-on-one defence hurts us. Problem is that Florent is also not very strong either. And Campbell. As I've said, when I see those three together I get cold shivers.

Agreed. And I love Lloyd. But it's no surprise he's had a form resurgence this year playing higher up the ground and not having to be as accountable. When he has had to be, like against Xavier O'Halloran of GWS a month or so ago, he was exposed.

I think the same of Florent, and the same of Campbell. And I don't even think it's any of their fault, I think they are just square pegs we've tried to fit into round holes.

For some reason there's been this myth emerge that we've found success converting midfielders into small defenders. We did it with Nick Smith for sure, but other than that? Crickets...

 

[The King!]

Perhaps it belongs in the unpopular opinions thread but carrying Lloyd's lack of one-on-one defence hurts us. Problem is that Florent is also not very strong either. And Campbell. As I've said, when I see those three together I get cold shivers.

Don't disagree

But basically the same squad was applying the required pressure pre bye every week, so there's enough capability there.

I guess Campbell missed some.

But yeah is it just Rowbottom now or bust

 

[Kiama Chris]

Agreed. And I love Lloyd. But it's no surprise he's had a form resurgence this year playing higher up the ground and not having to be as accountable. When he has had to be, like against Xavier O'Halloran of GWS a month or so ago, he was exposed.

I think the same of Florent, and the same of Campbell. And I don't even think it's any of their fault, I think they are just square pegs we've tried to fit into round holes.

For some reason there's been this myth emerge that we've found success converting midfielders into small defenders. We did it with Nick Smith for sure, but other than that? Crickets...

Harry is the other one who has succeeded but he tackles like a rugby league player.

 

[SM]

Obviously losing 3 out of the last 4 has skewed things a little for us but for what its worth

% is still dominant which at least tells somewhat of the story.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Currently, our problem is not having enough of our best 22 players out there. But the problems were evident way before then. Our opposition are simply bringing more effort, pressure and intensity to the contest and we don't have enough players willing to go harder to get the results.

Heeney's form has dropped away (presumably due to injury) and our midfield is no longer as dynamic as it was in the first half of the season. Things were working well when our midfield was performing well. But now it appears our structures are falling apart, perhaps because we're too attack-oriented, but not winning enough of the ball to justify our positioning.

With the ball in hand. We've lost the synergy we had early in the season, due to key personnel being out (Rowbottom, JMac) and hence Heeney, Warner and Gulden are operating under more pressure, and it's telling. The player's brought in to replace injuries aren't as skilled, and therefore our offensive chains are breaking down. Equally our defensive structures are poorer due to a larger reliance on second string players.

Our forward line has been my biggest worry all season. Given our midfield dominance has dropped, our forwards are getting poor delivery. And given our mids are forced to defend more, are not able to hit the scoreboard as regularly as they have earlier in the season. Our tall forwards were a worry all year. But the mids have propped them up. That secondary supply is drying up.

I think we need to bring in a Hamling and try him both in the backline and up forward to see if he has any impact (on either end).

I also think we need to start Parker and throw him in the guts to see what kind of drive we can get from him.

Heeney more time up forward.

But above all, horse needs to change the mindset of the team immediately, starting against Port. We need players to hunt the ball. And focus almost exclusively on closing down the space of our opponents and tackling relentlessly. Our attack needs to start from our defensive efforts, because we're no longer generating our attack through our midfield.

From there, our game can grow. And we will be primed for finals once we start getting more of our best 22 back.

But if it doesn't start from everyone attacking the ball, and applying maximum pressure, then this season is going to quickly slip from our grasp.

 

[caesar88]

We're a stacked team, but are we as stacked as we think we are?

I looked at coaches votes for all 18 teams this year and they might be telling...

No. of players who have received coaches votes in 2024:
22 - GWS
21 - Melbourne, Port Adelaide
20 - Collingwood, Geelong, Western Bulldogs
19 - Adelaide, Essendon, Fremantle, St Kilda
18 - Carlton, Hawthorn
17 - Brisbane, Gold Coast
16 - Sydney
15 - West Coast
12 - Richmond
11 - North Melbourne

No. of players who have received coaches votes in MULTIPLE games in 2024:
16 - Hawthorn
14 - Carlton, Collingwood
13 - Fremantle, Geelong, GWS, Melbourne
12 - Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Western Bulldogs
11 - Brisbane, Essendon, Gold Coast
10 - St Kilda, Sydney
9 - West Coast
8 - Richmond
5 - North Melbourne

No. of players averaging 1+ coaches vote per game:
10 - Western Bulldogs
9 - Geelong, GWS
8 - Fremantle, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Port Adelaide
7 - Brisbane, Hawthorn
6 - Adelaide, Sydney
5 - Carlton, Essendon
4 - Collingwood, St Kilda, West Coast
3 - North Melbourne, Richmond

Coaches votes are obviously not the be all that ends all, but I think they're a pretty good reflection of the players that have had big games pivotal to a win or gallant in defeat.

That only the bottom three teams have less players who have received coaches votes this year than us, and less players to have done so in more than one game than us... is slightly concerning.

We fair slightly better in our players averaging at least one coaches vote a game, but that's not surprising. We have a clear top six players this year by almost every measure, and they are also the six who average at least one vote a game. They're as good as any top six in the comp. But after them, then what? Do we need more from the guys below them?

Do we need to find a way to unlock McInerney's full potential, so he can have more than just one(!) vote to his name for the year? (And that's WITH the coaches praising his season as "outstanding".)

Do we need more from Papley, who at best is an elite forward capable of All Australian footy?

Should the guys in that middle tier, now in their mid-20s and in that 120-150 game range - Hayward, Florent, McCartin - be better than they are?

Have we missed Mills, a regular vote-getter at his best in 2021 & 2022, more than we thought this year?

Is our bottom six really consequential enough whenever any of them are rotated into the side?

Am I being unfair to judge the "role players" (hate that term) like McInerney, Hayward, Jordon etc., given that if they do their jobs well, maybe that means they don't get votes but others do, by design?

I don't know the answers to any of these questions, but I feel like we do look lacking and could be predictable if that top six of ours don't fire, and we could maybe be more susceptible to a loss in that scenario than some other teams would be. Not saying the rest aren't quality and don't step up, but can they step up enough?

 

[The King!]

We're a stacked team, but are we as stacked as we think we are?

I looked at coaches votes for all 18 teams this year and they might be telling...

No. of players who have received coaches votes in 2024:
22 - GWS
21 - Melbourne, Port Adelaide
20 - Collingwood, Geelong, Western Bulldogs
19 - Adelaide, Essendon, Fremantle, St Kilda
18 - Carlton, Hawthorn
17 - Brisbane, Gold Coast
16 - Sydney
15 - West Coast
12 - Richmond
11 - North Melbourne

No. of players who have received coaches votes in MULTIPLE games in 2024:
16 - Hawthorn
14 - Carlton, Collingwood
13 - Fremantle, Geelong, GWS, Melbourne
12 - Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Western Bulldogs
11 - Brisbane, Essendon, Gold Coast
10 - St Kilda, Sydney
9 - West Coast
8 - Richmond
5 - North Melbourne

No. of players averaging 1+ coaches vote per game:
10 - Western Bulldogs
9 - Geelong, GWS
8 - Fremantle, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Port Adelaide
7 - Brisbane, Hawthorn
6 - Adelaide, Sydney
5 - Carlton, Essendon
4 - Collingwood, St Kilda, West Coast
3 - North Melbourne, Richmond

Coaches votes are obviously not the be all that ends all, but I think they're a pretty good reflection of the players that have had big games pivotal to a win or gallant in defeat.

That only the bottom three teams have less players who have received coaches votes this year than us, and less players to have done so in more than one game than us... is slightly concerning.

We fair slightly better in our players averaging at least one coaches vote a game, but that's not surprising. We have a clear top six players this year by almost every measure, and they are also the six who average at least one vote a game. They're as good as any top six in the comp. But after them, then what? Do we need more from the guys below them?

Do we need to find a way to unlock McInerney's full potential, so he can have more than just one(!) vote to his name for the year? (And that's WITH the coaches praising his season as "outstanding".)

Do we need more from Papley, who at best is an elite forward capable of All Australian footy?

Should the guys in that middle tier, now in their mid-20s and in that 120-150 game range - Hayward, Florent, McCartin - be better than they are?

Have we missed Mills, a regular vote-getter at his best in 2021 & 2022, more than we thought this year?

Is our bottom six really consequential enough whenever any of them are rotated into the side?

Am I being unfair to judge the "role players" (hate that term) like McInerney, Hayward, Jordon etc., given that if they do their jobs well, maybe that means they don't get votes but others do, by design?

I don't know the answers to any of these questions, but I feel like we do look lacking and could be predictable if that top six of ours don't fire, and we could maybe be more susceptible to a loss in that scenario than some other teams would be. Not saying the rest aren't quality and don't step up, but can they step up enough?

It would be interesting to look at who didn't play for each side on the weekend, specifically those not injured who could have played.

Wonder how our players we elected not to pick stack up in terms of proven performers of some degree.

 

[caesar88]

It would be interesting to look at who didn't play for each side on the weekend, specifically those not injured who could have played.

Wonder how our players we elected not to pick stack up in terms of proven performers of some degree.

Won't really know until we pick them, but knowing when the right time to do that has been a recurring theme of ours this year. Not helped at all by the fact a lot of players are having a 'one good game followed by two or three bad ones' type of season, which hamstrings us at selection a bit.

 

[Olian]

We're a stacked team, but are we as stacked as we think we are?

I looked at coaches votes for all 18 teams this year and they might be telling...

No. of players who have received coaches votes in 2024:
22 - GWS
21 - Melbourne, Port Adelaide
20 - Collingwood, Geelong, Western Bulldogs
19 - Adelaide, Essendon, Fremantle, St Kilda
18 - Carlton, Hawthorn
17 - Brisbane, Gold Coast
16 - Sydney
15 - West Coast
12 - Richmond
11 - North Melbourne

No. of players who have received coaches votes in MULTIPLE games in 2024:
16 - Hawthorn
14 - Carlton, Collingwood
13 - Fremantle, Geelong, GWS, Melbourne
12 - Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Western Bulldogs
11 - Brisbane, Essendon, Gold Coast
10 - St Kilda, Sydney
9 - West Coast
8 - Richmond
5 - North Melbourne

No. of players averaging 1+ coaches vote per game:
10 - Western Bulldogs
9 - Geelong, GWS
8 - Fremantle, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Port Adelaide
7 - Brisbane, Hawthorn
6 - Adelaide, Sydney
5 - Carlton, Essendon
4 - Collingwood, St Kilda, West Coast
3 - North Melbourne, Richmond

Coaches votes are obviously not the be all that ends all, but I think they're a pretty good reflection of the players that have had big games pivotal to a win or gallant in defeat.

That only the bottom three teams have less players who have received coaches votes this year than us, and less players to have done so in more than one game than us... is slightly concerning.

We fair slightly better in our players averaging at least one coaches vote a game, but that's not surprising. We have a clear top six players this year by almost every measure, and they are also the six who average at least one vote a game. They're as good as any top six in the comp. But after them, then what? Do we need more from the guys below them?

Do we need to find a way to unlock McInerney's full potential, so he can have more than just one(!) vote to his name for the year? (And that's WITH the coaches praising his season as "outstanding".)

Do we need more from Papley, who at best is an elite forward capable of All Australian footy?

Should the guys in that middle tier, now in their mid-20s and in that 120-150 game range - Hayward, Florent, McCartin - be better than they are?

Have we missed Mills, a regular vote-getter at his best in 2021 & 2022, more than we thought this year?

Is our bottom six really consequential enough whenever any of them are rotated into the side?

Am I being unfair to judge the "role players" (hate that term) like McInerney, Hayward, Jordon etc., given that if they do their jobs well, maybe that means they don't get votes but others do, by design?

I don't know the answers to any of these questions, but I feel like we do look lacking and could be predictable if that top six of ours don't fire, and we could maybe be more susceptible to a loss in that scenario than some other teams would be. Not saying the rest aren't quality and don't step up, but can they step up enough?

Interesting point of view.

Is part of the issue that we’ve used the fewest number of players. We have 5 players who have played 4 or less games (many of those as sub). The other 25 players have played no less than 13 games.

In the end players play their role consistently and we rely on three players in the top 10 votes to win the games? Brownlow voting can be skewered this way as well.

 

[caesar88]

Interesting point of view.

Is part of the issue that we’ve used the fewest number of players. We have 5 players who have played 4 or less games (many of those as sub). The other 25 players have played no less than 13 games.

In the end players play their role consistently and we rely on three players in the top 10 votes to win the games? Brownlow voting can be skewered this way as well.

Games played could be a factor, but it suggests the players we have brought in aren't impacting enough either maybe.

I guess I put more stock in coaches votes than Brownlow votes, because there's more chance for players to receive coaches votes and be recognised for their impact than in the Brownlow. Too many of ours still not getting recognised enough in the coaches votes feels like it could be a reflection that we're a bit top heavy in terms of our best players and then the rest.

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

Have the swans been in a heavy training block or not ? Just this morning a non big footy source (must be unreliable ofc) told me unprompted they were.

Does anyone know ? Please discuss.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Have the swans been in a heavy training block or not ? Just this morning a non big footy source (must be unreliable ofc) told me unprompted they were.

Does anyone know ? Please discuss.

Its something only the people inside the club will know, but if we are its backfired horribly as we have picked up injuries to key players and now actually need to win at least 2 games to be assured of a top 2 finish.

 

[caesar88]

Have the swans been in a heavy training block or not ? Just this morning a non big footy source (must be unreliable ofc) told me unprompted they were.

What would Jack Hiscox know about our training loads?

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

What would Jack Hiscox know about our training loads?

Idk, I guess he’d know jack, really.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Idk, I guess he’d know jack, really.

I see what you did there