Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Absolutely no issue with the FS rule as all clubs get access to that at some point in time.

Academies are pathetic and need to go.

If some kid gets told “hey, your likely going to be a gun first rounder who could earn 700k plus in a few years but may have to go play interstate” throws away the game just because they may have to move interstate then that’s their choice. Pathetic reasoning to create academies for an issue that doesn’t even need to be addressed.

 

[SM]

Absolutely no issue with the FS rule as all clubs get access to that at some point in time.

Academies are pathetic and need to go.

If some kid gets told “hey, your likely going to be a gun first rounder who could earn 700k plus in a few years but may have to go play interstate” throws away the game just because they may have to move interstate then that’s their choice. Pathetic reasoning to create academies for an issue that doesn’t even need to be addressed.

Wut?

 

[ChristianBoy]

You realise that in NSW and QLD that Australian Rules Football isnt the number one code? If the Clubs didn't fund the academies and they were simply AFL funded they wouldn't get the access. Instead players in VIC,SA,WA come through pathways of development that aren't available in States like NSW and QLD. They also don't receive the third party payments to appear on television shows that they do in VIC.

The academies are there to grow the game. Increase the talent pool. The result of that is all Clubs have access to even more talent.

Blah blah more advantages blah.

 

[Sphynx]

Sorry, we talking about the Swans or Cats?

Didn't realise the Cats had an academy.

 

[SM]

Didn't realise the Cats had an academy.

No just a lot of F/S selections and an enticing set of third party arrangements they can offer to top up their list when needed. Perhaps that needs cracking down on too?

I just find it amusing there's so much outrage that we 'only' spent two years out of the 8 undertaking a rebuild, and the Cats haven't even experienced that over the last 10-15 years, but there's no similar outrage over their retention and recruiting abilities (that also aren't available to all teams).

We had to give up a lot of picks in order to have the points to bid on Mills. We got Heeney under rules that were then changed for everyone, so fair enough, but not sure on still whining about that one.

 

[Sphynx]

No just a lot of F/S selections and an enticing set of third party arrangements they can offer to top up their list when needed. Perhaps that needs cracking down on too?

I just find it amusing there's so much outrage that we 'only' spent two years out of the 8 undertaking a rebuild, and the Cats haven't even experienced that over the last 10-15 years, but there's no similar outrage over their retention and recruiting abilities (that also aren't available to all teams).

The Cats father sons are pot luck and their last one of note was Hawkins 16 years ago. The Dogs have benefited similarly in recent times. All clubs have the same rules regarding father sons.

In terms of third party arrangements? Yes it's true Geelong players are probably partial to some free lifetime fruit and veg, it's no different to the rorts that have been going on at Collingwood, Richmond, West Coast etc over the years.

Sydney have had these same 3rd part arrangements, but then had sanctioned AFL COLA allowances ontop of it.


Geelongs longevity is as much about their use of the FA and trade market as anything else.


Sydney's longevity is down to their Academy, something of the scale only really available to one other club in the comp because of the catchment size and weight of numbers (GWS)

 

[SM]

The Cats father sons are pot luck and their last one of note was Hawkins 16 years ago. The Dogs have benefited similarly in recent times. All clubs have the same rules regarding father sons.

In terms of third party arrangements? Yes it's true Geelong players are probably partial to some free lifetime fruit and veg, it's no different to the rorts that have been going on at Collingwood, Richmond, West Coast etc over the years.

Sydney have had these same 3rd part arrangements, but then had sanctioned AFL COLA allowances ontop of it.


Geelongs longevity is as much about their use of the FA and trade market as anything else.


Sydney's longevity is down to their Academy, something of the scale only really available to one other club in the comp (GWS)

The same 3rd party agreements haha, love it. Remind me how many AFL shows there are up in Sydney for our players to be paid to appear on? How many advertising deals do we have up here for AFL players they can be paid for?

You crack me up.

Longevity? So when we spent 2019 and 2020 out of Finals that was part of our 'longevity'? Mills, Heeney and Blakey were running around in those sides after all..

 

[Sphynx]

The same 3rd party agreements haha, love it. Remind me how many AFL shows there are up in Sydney for our players to be paid to appear on? How many advertising deals do we have up here for AFL players they can be paid for?

You crack me up.

Longevity? So when we spent 2019 and 2020 out of Finals that was part of our 'longevity'? Mills, Heeney and Blakey were running around in those sides after all..

Haha, imaging citing the footy show as some sort of commercial make weight?

Are you seriously going there regarding advertising? haha.

Remind me of the club with largest commercial sponsorship deal in the AFL, remind me of the AFL club with the fastest growing commercial sponsorship revenue in the AFL, remind me of the club with the most marketable player in the AFL on one of the largest wages in the AFL with AFL Ambassadorial payments, oh wait.........

Why would all these brands pile into a club with no buying power and brand reach? Oh wait......



Yes, you dipped down in 2020 and managed to get McDonald and Braeden Campbell with consecutive top 5 picks for absolute junk late picks. Poor Sydney. After previously getting Isaac Heeney (who was bid on at pick 2) for an end of first round pick. Woe is me, Sydney fighting such an uphill battle...

 

[SM]

Haha, imaging citing the footy show as some sort of commercial make weight?

Are you seriously going there regarding advertising? haha.

Remind me of the club with largest commercial sponsorship deal in the AFL, remind me of the AFL club with the fastest growing commercial sponsorship revenue in the AFL, remind me of the club with the most marketable player in the AFL on one of the largest wages in the AFL with AFL Ambassadorial payments, oh wait.........

Why would all these brands pile into a club with no buying power and brand reach? Oh wait......



Yes, you dipped down in 2020 and managed to get McDonald and Braeden Campbell with consecutive top 5 picks for absolute junk late picks. Poor Sydney. After previously getting Isaac Heeney (who was bid on at pick 2) for an end of first round pick. Woe is me, Sydney fighting such an uphill battle...

And there you are bringing up Heeney again when the rules have since changed. Change the record, it's stale.

 

[Sphynx]

And there you are bringing up Heeney again when the rules have since changed. Change the record, it's stale.

What about Campbell?

 

[SM]

What about Campbell?

What about him?

 

[Sphynx]

What about him?

You see no problems in a club being able to take a second top 5 pick in consecutive picks through the use of picks 33,36,45,52?

A function unavailable to most of the competition?

 

[sherb]

We're back to whinging about the Swans academy I see. Funny how that seems to coincide with the Swans travelling well on the field.

 

[SM]

You see no problems in a club being able to take a second top 5 pick in consecutive picks through the use of picks 33,36,45,52?

A function unavailable to most of the competition?

How is it unavailable to most of the competition when they could do the same if they had a promising F/S selection? Which was the point of my comparison above. If the Lions traded for pick 2 or pick 1, would you expect them to use that on Ashcroft, or use it to draft the next best available and then bundle picks to use to match a bid on Ashcroft at the following pick?

The points system is available to any team in relevant circumstance. We gave up a lot of picks to draft Campbell (who I don't even understand the whinging about, he's barely played this year and been underwhelming when he has), and then were thankful that no one seemed to rate Gulden so we could get him too with our remaining picks. Again not our fault.

 

[BloodySwan]

We're back to whinging about the Swans academy I see. Funny how that seems to coincide with the Swans travelling well on the field.

It's very clear how many VFL fans view the competition and the "Interstate teams".

Interstate teams are academies for Melb based clubs. Any advantage a Vic club gets is heritage and anything else is unfair.

As soon as the Swans win a game - it's only through the AFL stacking the cards rather than anything else.

Rinse and repeat

 

[Sphynx]

How is it unavailable to most of the competition when they could do the same if they had a promising F/S selection? Which was the point of my comparison above. If the Lions traded for pick 2 or pick 1, would you expect them to use that on Ashcroft, or use it to draft the next best available and then bundle picks to use to match a bid on Ashcroft at the following pick?

The points system is available to any team in relevant circumstance. We gave up a lot of picks to draft Campbell (who I don't even understanding the whinging about, he's barely played this year and been underwhelming when he has), and then were thankful that no one seemed to rate Gulden so we could get him too with our remaining picks. Again not our fault.

I don't think every club has the equivalent catchment of past players with 100 games qualification in the 10's of thousands every single year, like Sydney have available to them.

Not only that, they have the same father son access as everyone else.

 

[SM]

I don't think every club has the equivalent catchment of past players with 100 games qualification in the 10's of thousands every single year, like Sydney have available to them.

Not only that, they have the same father son access as everyone else.

I'm not really understanding your point. We still have to pay for these players, we aren't getting them handed to us. As someone showed earlier in the thread, we gave up a lot for Mills who, as Campbell is now showing, wasn't a guaranteed success. Hindsight sure helps though. Maybe Campbell comes good too, but the hyperbole at the time of him being better than Rowell is looking a bit silly.

 

[Sphynx]

It's very clear how many VFL teams view the competition and the "Interstate teams".

Interstate teams are academies for Melb based clubs. Any advantage a Vic club gets is heritage and anything else is unfair.

As soon as the Swans win a game - it's only through the AFL stacking the cards rather than anything else.

Rinse and repeat

Academy Thread Bingo - Winner!


Deflect and rant about "VFL teams" winging


A nice little fact is between all the different compromised rots of the AFL draft system (of which Father Son is definitely one that should also be abolished), the team with the third pick in the draft has had their pick compromised for what will be the 5 consecutive year with the looming recruitment of Ashcroft.

What a system!

 

[Sphynx]

I'm not really understanding your point. We still have to pay for these players, we aren't getting them handed to us. As someone showed earlier in the thread, we gave up a lot for Mills who, as Campbell is now showing, wasn't a guaranteed success. Hindsight sure helps though. Maybe Campbell comes good too, but the hyperbole at the time of him being better than Rowell is looking a bit silly.

It's pretty clear you can't understand the competitive advantage difference there is between every male footballer in Sydney being in the catchment to the Swans Academy vs only those of former players of that particular club who have played 100 games of AFL football.

I mean the AFL even restructured the Sydney representative football system so EVERY kid had no other option but to go through your academy to play u/18 representative football.

A simple test is, if Chad Warner is worth pick 5 at the moment, would you take 2 seconds and a third round pick for him?


Haha, I've love to see the reaction.

 

[BloodySwan]

Academy Thread Bingo - Winner!


Deflect and rant about "VFL teams" winging


A nice little fact is between all the different compromised rots of the AFL draft system (of which Father Son is definitely one that should also be abolished), the team with the third pick in the draft has had their pick compromised for what will be the 5 consecutive year with the looming recruitment of Ashcroft.

What a system!

It's not a deflection at all. You only need to look over the previous posts to see how the academies are an attempt to BALANCE the comp.

Again;
-If academies are unfair we should see Suns, Giants, Brisbane and Swans dominating the scene
-Instead the most dominate teams since their introduction have all been "disadvantaged" melbourne teams
-These teams have all benefited massively from go home factors. Something the academies have been put in place to counteract

 

[SM]

It's pretty clear you can't understand the competitive advantage difference there is between every male footballer in Sydney being in the catchment to the Swans Academy vs only those of former players of that particular club who have played 100 games of AFL football.

I mean the AFL even restructured the Sydney representative football system so EVERY kid had no other option but to go through your academy to play u/18 representative football.

A simple test is, if Chad Warner is worth pick 5 at the moment, would you take 2 seconds and a third round pick for him?


Haha, I've love to see the reaction.

Simple answer is he's not worth pick 5 at the moment, he's worth two first rounders. You're also creating a false equivalence as players when drafted are unattached. Their value to a club is very different after a few years in the system.

A better example is when a team loses a FA and gets compensated by the AFL. That distorts the draft too and is their methodology of valuing that player.

Don't you think by bringing in Academies it's meant that the Swans/GWS and Lions/Suns have focussed more on drafting and retaining local talent, leaving talented Vic players for the Victorian clubs? Can you let me know how many (successful) players drafted out of Sydney in total there was prior to the Academies? Maybe 5?

 

[JyeDye]

I'm not really understanding your point. We still have to pay for these players, we aren't getting them handed to us. As someone showed earlier in the thread, we gave up a lot for Mills who, as Campbell is now showing, wasn't a guaranteed success. Hindsight sure helps though. Maybe Campbell comes good too, but the hyperbole at the time of him being better than Rowell is looking a bit silly.

I wouldn't say giving up pick 33, 36, 37 and 43 to match at pick 3 is a lot... I would like to see a club who would accept that trade for pick 3.

 

[Sphynx]

It's not a deflection at all. You only need to look over the previous posts to see how the academies are an attempt to BALANCE the comp.

Again;
-If academies are unfair we should see Suns, Giants, Brisbane and Swans dominating the scene
-Instead the most dominate teams since their introduction have all been "disadvantaged" melbourne teams
-These teams have all benefited massively from go home factors. Something the academies have been put in place to counteract

Oh right.

I'm glad Sydney have restricted their historically massive loss of players to go home factors, like? Anthony Rocca, Shannon Grant, Jordan Dawson, Gary Rohan, Nic Newman, Zak Jones and Peter Laddhams?

Should we compare the incomings? Wayne Schwass, Paul Williams, Tony Lockett, Barry Hall, Darren Jolly, Peter Everiit, Rhyce Shaw, Josh Kennedy, Lance Franklin, Kurt Tippett, Aliir Aliir etc etc?


Should we compare that to Adelaide over the same period? Do they need an Academy to counteract the go home factor?

 

[Sphynx]

Simple answer is he's not worth pick 5 at the moment, he's worth two first rounders. You're also creating a false equivalence as players when drafted are unattached. Their value to a club is very different after a few years in the system.

A better example is when a team loses a FA and gets compensated by the AFL. That distorts the draft too and is their methodology of valuing that player.

Don't you think by bringing in Academies it's meant that the Swans/GWS and Lions/Suns have focussed more on drafting and retaining local talent, leaving talented Vic players for the Victorian clubs? Can you let me know how many (successful) players drafted out of Sydney in total there was prior to the Academies? Maybe 5?

I simply used him as an example.


No club in the competition would trade pick 5 for pick 33, 36, 45 and 52.


You can't possibly be writing this with a straight face. "We aren't getting these players handed to us"

 

[SM]

I wouldn't say giving up pick 33, 36, 37 and 43 to match at pick 3 is a lot... I would like to see a club who would accept that trade for pick 3.

We gave up Craig Bird (who was best 22 at the time) to get those picks, so an established player and a lot of second/third round picks. Seems like a lot to me.