Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Yoda_]

Every year you say an inside mid is one of the easiest positions to fill via the draft, yet every year we fail to do so.
Not sure it is actually that easy. Or could be just Dodoro and co of course.

Dodoro is an idiot. Even you can admit that?

 

[CBombers17]

Give me the names of AFL mid sized forwards who are effective through the midfield, deep forward and have pace that aren’t guns

You are welcome to do your own list - but here's one to keep an eye on. Josh Morris taken last year the pick after Cahill at 57 by the Hawks (speedy medium forward @ 186cm + strong overhead) I didn't see him play but from reading on here his attack on the ball and the man was solid for a skinny kid in his first year in the AFL.

So there's two of this exact type taken close either side of Cahill in the 50's of last year's draft. One by Geelong and one by the Hawks. It would be pretty brave to say they don't know what they are doing. Us on the other hand?

 

[Zach Package]

I don’t really think any of that article is ground breaking, a lot of it seems like jilted formed employee stuff and the rest is stuff we already know.

Interesting to note that Tom Hawkins and Scott Gumbleton are the same age.

Is it really that surprising that we’re mid table when our generational spearhead gets crippled into retirement, we get a gift from the gods as a mulligan in Daniher and then the same thing happens again?

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I don’t really think any of that article is ground breaking, a lot of it seems like jilted formed employee stuff and the rest is stuff we already know.

Interesting to note that Tom Hawkins and Scott Gumbleton are the same age.

Is it really that surprising that we’re mid table when our generational spearhead gets crippled into retirement, we get a gift from the gods as a mulligan in Daniher and then the same thing happens again?

You know who else was the same age? Jay Neagle. In 2010 we delisted him, he was averaging more goals per game than Hawkins was playing in the reigning premiers. Obviously being 6cm shorter he’d never have developed into a beast but it goes to show how much we detest developing players. Never take long term risks so we never get long term rewards.

Probably could have been a 40 goal third tall that could bust packs.

 

[Zach Package]

You know who else was the same age? Jay Neagle. In 2010 we delisted him, he was averaging more goals per game than Hawkins was playing in the reigning premiers. Obviously being 6cm shorter he’d never have developed into a beast but it goes to show how much we detest developing players. Never take long term risks so we never get long term rewards.

Probably could have been a 40 goal third tall that could bust packs.

I meant it more in the ‘we haven’t had the 10 year planks to build around and have consequently struggled because that’s what happens’ sense, but yeah, that too, could reel off a dozen more in that similar vein.

 

[Yoda_]

You know who else was the same age? Jay Neagle. In 2010 we delisted him, he was averaging more goals per game than Hawkins was playing in the reigning premiers. Obviously being 6cm shorter he’d never have developed into a beast but it goes to show how much we detest developing players. Never take long term risks so we never get long term rewards.

Probably could have been a 40 goal third tall that could bust packs.

We hold onto players too long that are undeserving and delist players who were relatively unlucky with one thing or another.

 

[Towno78]

You know who else was the same age? Jay Neagle. In 2010 we delisted him, he was averaging more goals per game than Hawkins was playing in the reigning premiers. Obviously being 6cm shorter he’d never have developed into a beast but it goes to show how much we detest developing players. Never take long term risks so we never get long term rewards.

Probably could have been a 40 goal third tall that could bust packs.

I doubt you'll get many round here agreeing that our problem is not holding on to players long enough

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I doubt you'll get many round here agreeing that our problem is not holding on to players long enough

It’s nothing to do with holding on to players for too long, it’s about not playing them. If you haven’t played a player in two years, sure delist them. But at some point in time you have to get some balls and put your reputation on developing some players.

 

[Towno78]

It’s nothing to do with holding on to players for too long, it’s about not playing them. If you haven’t played a player in two years, sure delist them. But at some point in time you have to get some balls and put your reputation on developing some players.

And your example was Neagle, who we pushed aside Lloyd to fast track games at FF?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

You know who else was the same age? Jay Neagle. In 2010 we delisted him, he was averaging more goals per game than Hawkins was playing in the reigning premiers. Obviously being 6cm shorter he’d never have developed into a beast but it goes to show how much we detest developing players. Never take long term risks so we never get long term rewards.

Probably could have been a 40 goal third tall that could bust packs.

Im still not over him playing on from that mark.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

And your example was Neagle, who we pushed aside Lloyd to fast track games at FF?

It was unimaginative thinking on Knights behalf. Why not play them side by side? Some delusion about type.

What are West Coast doing winning games playing Kennedy, Darling, Allen and Waterman in the same forward line?

 

[Yoda_]

It’s nothing to do with holding on to players for too long, it’s about not playing them. If you haven’t played a player in two years, sure delist them. But at some point in time you have to get some balls and put your reputation on developing some players.

Its funny you say that. Poor list management is holding onto players too long. Looked at North MElbourne's list and Taylor Garner whom I thought was a youngster is actually 26. 26!!! Has played a staggering 43 games in going on 8 years. thats less than 6 games a year.

You then look at a Hawthorn (god forbid) and they were offering the door to club legends. The Cats are another team who make list management look easy.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Its funny you say that. Poor list management is holding onto players too long. Looked at North MElbourne's list and Taylor Garner whom I thought was a youngster is actually 26. 26!!! Has played a staggering 43 games in going on 8 years. thats less than 6 games a year.

You then look at a Hawthorn (god forbid) and they were offering the door to club legends. The Cats are another team who make list management look easy.

I meant my point had nothing to do with holding onto players too long. As I specified in the next sentence.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Im still not over him playing on from that mark.

It was a bad mistake but he was also tearing that game apart until that stage.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Neagle had some talent but pretty sure he was booted out because he just didn’t fulfil the workloads required.

Overall I’d say we have been far too patient with players in past years when it was reasonably clear they were not (or no longer) up to AFL standard. But I think that’s improved in the last few years.

But list management is made harder when you have no stability. Coaches have their own plans and need a bit of time to build lists to carry them out. Rutten is our fifth senior coach in 10 years.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Serious questions need to be asked about why you'd bring in three 25+ year olds who cannot command a game at their club into our list. The ruckmen insurance thing is understandable but bringing in 3 guys who are likely to be gone within a year or two doesn't leave you much room to move with existing players not up to the caper.

I can't recall any success with a discard over the last 10 years. Chapman was probably useful for a year but nothing the following.

 

[CBombers17]

Serious questions need to be asked about why you'd bring in three 25+ year olds who cannot command a game at their club into our list. The ruckmen insurance thing is understandable but bringing in 3 guys who are likely to be gone within a year or two doesn't leave you much room to move with existing players not up to the caper.

I can't recall any success with a discard over the last 10 years. Chapman was probably useful for a year but nothing the following.

I think it says that the club looked at our list and somehow thought we were a contender in 2020.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Serious questions need to be asked about why you'd bring in three 25+ year olds who cannot command a game at their club into our list. The ruckmen insurance thing is understandable but bringing in 3 guys who are likely to be gone within a year or two doesn't leave you much room to move with existing players not up to the caper.

I can't recall any success with a discard over the last 10 years. Chapman was probably useful for a year but nothing the following.

James Kelly was excellent. He was a top up but we kept him after that. He was a good leader, something we’ve long lacked.

 

[Yoda_]

Serious questions need to be asked about why you'd bring in three 25+ year olds who cannot command a game at their club into our list. The ruckmen insurance thing is understandable but bringing in 3 guys who are likely to be gone within a year or two doesn't leave you much room to move with existing players not up to the caper.

I can't recall any success with a discard over the last 10 years. Chapman was probably useful for a year but nothing the following.

We've asked questions of our list manager for the best part of a decade and nothing happens.

 

[Old Campaigner]

I feel like the biggest issue is lacking a player who can clunk a big contested mark as we exit defence.

A big midfielder with a bit of aggression on the inside would be good too. I had hoped that Clarke could fill this role but he seems to have stagnated. I have no idea why we drafted Hibberd only to play him on the wing.

 

[ant555]

Neagle had some talent but pretty sure he was booted out because he just didn’t fulfil the workloads required.

Overall I’d say we have been far too patient with players in past years when it was reasonably clear they were not (or no longer) up to AFL standard. But I think that’s improved in the last few years.

But list management is made harder when you have no stability. Coaches have their own plans and need a bit of time to build lists to carry them out. Rutten is our fifth senior coach in 10 years.

100% correct. Kid could play but he was simply not up to it mentally and did not work hard enough. It was the knock on him before he drafted.

 

[ant555]

We are going to need a miracle. There is something to work with but we will need to get the next two drafts / trade periods right. Given our record we will likely get enough right to tantalize but still fail in the end.

 

[calyam]

Serious questions need to be asked about why you'd bring in three 25+ year olds who cannot command a game at their club into our list. The ruckmen insurance thing is understandable but bringing in 3 guys who are likely to be gone within a year or two doesn't leave you much room to move with existing players not up to the caper.

I can't recall any success with a discard over the last 10 years. Chapman was probably useful for a year but nothing the following.

For the most part they are all there for insurance purposes. Unfortunately when you have severe injuries - and a serious chunk of our salary cap is on the sidelines - these guys get more games than you'd like or are asked to take on more responsibility than they are capable of. McKernan and Townsend are on the list because they can operate as a third tall and do a serviceable job in that role. But when Daniher and Stringer are injured, suddenly they are playing roles that are well beyond their capabilities.

Bringing in mature bodies that can play a role when required is an important part of list management. Injuries are always a threat to de-rail your season. Unfortunately, we haven't necessarily done a good job of selecting those mature players (although I think McKernan and Brown were more than serviceable in recent years).

 

[Vander18]

We are going to need a miracle. There is something to work with but we will need to get the next two drafts / trade periods right. Given our record we will likely get enough right to tantalize but still fail in the end.

We need an out and out star don’t we? Not a solid B+ guy but a genuine star - Hird or Lloyd level type, absolutely elite A+ Hall of Fame type.

Doesn’t solve everything of course but most teams that win flags have one.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

We need an out and out star don’t we? Not a solid B+ guy but a genuine star - Hird or Lloyd level type, absolutely elite A+ Hall of Fame type.

Doesn’t solve everything of course but most teams that win flags have one.

That was Daniher. 23yo, 65 goals, B&F, All Aust.

Three years of uncertainty is enough. It has to resolve itself one way or the other this year.