Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[BrunoV]

Stewart has played back a few times and really killed it. I think it would be great if Rutten can use him like we have Hooker previously- starting back and then being swung forward if required depending on match ups/form etc


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I'm not sure about "really killed it" but he was functional, in the middle of a comeback following 18 months of actual (as opposed to fake) OP. Certainly functional enough at about 80% fitness for it to be very encouraging.

We don't have a defender who can stand a monster next year and keep up with that player, not at this stage of the respective careers of Hooker, Reid, Brand and McBride.

I'm pleasantly surprised Stewart in defence is being looked at. It makes sense to have Hooker and Stewart interchangeable. Maybe Hooker can be the number 1 in defence but if he's now just too slow we at least have a second option for the likes of Dixon, Kings, McKay, Daniher, Hawkins/Cameron, Lynch, etc.

Hurley forward is looking for a position for someone who's barely best 22 and unable to contribute (Hooker standing in the goal square occupying 3 players was one of our best scoring routes in 2017). I don't like that. He doesn't have the body that lets him play as the wrecking ball he tried to be and he struggles with overhead marking. Why shoehorn him forward at the expense of Laverde, Jones or Perkins who would all be playing similar roles?

 

[faible]

I'm not sure about "really killed it" but he was functional, in the middle of a comeback following 18 months of actual (as opposed to fake) OP. Certainly functional enough at about 80% fitness for it to be very encouraging.

We don't have a defender who can stand a monster next year and keep up with that player, not at this stage of the respective careers of Hooker, Reid, Brand and McBride.

I'm pleasantly surprised Stewart in defence is being looked at. It makes sense to have Hooker and Stewart interchangeable. Maybe Hooker can be the number 1 in defence but if he's now just too slow we at least have a second option for the likes of Dixon, Kings, McKay, Daniher, Hawkins/Cameron, Lynch, etc.

Hurley forward is looking for a position for someone who's barely best 22 and unable to contribute (Hooker standing in the goal square occupying 3 players was one of our best scoring routes in 2017). I don't like that. He doesn't have the body that lets him play as the wrecking ball he tried to be and he struggles with overhead marking. Why shoehorn him forward at the expense of Laverde, Jones or Perkins who would all be playing similar roles?

Hurley forward is a confusing choice, like, he tries hard, but his wrists are ****ed and so can't mark overhead which makes it much easier to defend him.

I guess maybe because we're more heavy on young defenders they want to have the option of playing him up front?

I'd have thought a backline of

Zerk-Thatcher / Stewart + Hurley + Francis + Ridley would be functional enough.

Add Hind and maybe playing Gleeson on a small / medium with Heppell as the 7th.

 

[BrunoV]

Hurley forward is a confusing choice, like, he tries hard, but his wrists are f’ed and so can't mark overhead which makes it much easier to defend him.

I guess maybe because we're more heavy on young defenders they want to have the option of playing him up front?

I'd have thought a backline of

Zerk-Thatcher / Stewart + Hurley + Francis + Ridley would be functional enough.

Add Hind and maybe playing Gleeson on a small / medium with Heppell as the 7th.

I know it's a reality but I grind my teeth reading that back line.

BZT, 2021 Hurley, Gleeson and Hind...

 

[ghostdog]

Don't get why we'd play Stewart down back. Feels like a massive waste of his talents.

Agreed. Wright averaged a goal per game. I don't see how that stat improves.

 

[Yoda_]

Agreed. Wright averaged a goal per game. I don't see how that stat improves.

Wright as your deepest forward with Stewart roaming up to the wings makes the most sense to me.

I don’t think many Essendon supporters are expecting Wright to instantly go and become a 3 goal a game forward. 1 - 1.3 goals (25 - 30 goals season) would be ok for me, giving us a target is enough.


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[JayJ20]

If Jones plays regularly, then I don't mind having Stewart back. Hooker, Wright and Jones in the forwardline. Stewart back. With the amount of young forwards that we have coming through in the next couple of years, I can see Stewart finishing off his career in defence after Hurley and Hooker retire.

 

[ghostdog]

This plays into my disdain at going after Wright at all. He's a ruckman who has been forced to be a forward, which is not his natural position. He can kick a goal, like a ruckman does when they drift forward.

Stewart developing as a backman is again forcing a player to play out of position, and that would be at the expense of BZT who we need to develop there.

The only forward combo that makes sense is Hooker, Stewart, Jones, and that's only because Hooker is proven. What happens when his body breaks down this year?

Crauford was getting favourable reports and could have remained as back up for Draper while Bryan develops.

Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

should have been recruited. He'd have drawn more heat than Wright from defenders to allow the young forwards to develop. I don't get why we got Wright, save economic rationalism, but we've got him, so I remain.

 

[eth-dog]

This plays into my disdain at going after Wright at all. He's a ruckman who has been forced to be a forward, which is not his natural position. He can kick a goal, like a ruckman does when they drift forward.

Stewart developing as a backman is again forcing a player to play out of position, and that would be at the expense of BZT who we need to develop there.

The only forward combo that makes sense is Hooker, Stewart, Jones, and that's only because Hooker is proven. What happens when his body breaks down this year?

Crauford was getting favourable reports and could have remained as back up for Draper while Bryan develops.

Ben Brown should have been recruited. He'd have drawn more heat than Wright from defenders to allow the young forwards to develop. I don't get why we got Wright, save economic rationalism, but we've got him, so I remain.

He basically played forward with stints in the ruck all throughout his junior career. He's more David Hale than Tom Bellchambers.

 

[ghostdog]

He basically played forward with stints in the ruck all throughout his junior career. He's more David Hale than Tom Bellchambers.

Yet he was identified drafted as a ruckman, wasn't he?

 

[Bjchan13]

Yet he was identified drafted as a ruckman, wasn't he?

2014 Draft Profile: Peter Wright

Peter Wright (Calder Cannons) Height: 203 cm Weight: 100 kg Position: Key forward/ruckman Strengths: Goal kicking, marking, movement Areas needing improvement: Tackling, field kicking consistency Player comparison: Mitch Clark Peter Wright has taken his game to another level this year. His...

afl.draftcentral.com.au

 

[ghostdog]

He basically played forward with stints in the ruck all throughout his junior career. He's more David Hale than Tom Bellchambers.

2014 Draft Profile: Peter Wright

Peter Wright (Calder Cannons) Height: 203 cm Weight: 100 kg Position: Key forward/ruckman Strengths: Goal kicking, marking, movement Areas needing improvement: Tackling, field kicking consistency Player comparison: Mitch Clark Peter Wright has taken his game to another level this year. His...

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Well, here's hoping he delivers on the promise of his draft year, which was oh so long ago.

 

[Bjchan13]

Well, here's hoping he delivers on the promise of his draft year, which was oh so long ago.

If he delivers his career average of 1.3 goals a game, we'll be a better side. Hooker parked deep forward 1v1, Wright constantly leading at the ball carrier out of the goal square, Harry Jones using his running ability to be an option around the flanks... this would take some heat off Stringer and Tippa. Laverde would be a tricky matchup with those 5 occupying a defender. Smith and Parish rotating through. Theoretically that could function better than anything weve had since 2017. All that would allow Stewart to settle in defence too. Hooker is too slow in defence and this is most likely his last year anyway, Hurley has slowed right down and cant be relied upon to handle the big key forwards on his own, Ambrose is good but 30 and injury prone and BZT is still an unknown. Stewart could help hold things together for a couple of years while Reid and Brand are finding their feet.

 

[EnolaGay]

Twomey wrote a thing about our forward line too, suggesting Hooker forward and Stewart back. Also wants more goals from the midfielders.

The burning question Bombers must address under Rutten

Essendon leaked goals last season but it's at the other end of the ground where the new coach might have more headaches

www.afl.com.au

I think Hurley has also been training forward?

The Age today agrees

 

[JT_the_Man]

Bombers mull Hurley forward move

Essendon coach Ben Rutten has flagged a possible late-career role change for veteran Michael Hurley, who has been trialled as a forward during pre-season training.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Old Campaigner]

Just shows how critical it was to stock up on talls this year and ignore the temptation to try and replenish the midfield.

 

[blitzer]

I don't mind Hurley playing a role up forward sometimes as a 3rd tall type. Yes we know he won't be taking tons of marks given his screwed wrists but at ground level i think he will be really good and I reckon he could still be good at actually working hard and bringing the ball to ground. He is also a nice long kick and a smart player. Also will be able to bring some good leadership to a fairly rudderless forward line.

Plus it opens up the options to play lots of switcheroo games with guys like Hurley, Stewart and Hooker which might enable us to get some advantageous mismatches.

Its also good that it will free up a space in the backline as our backline prospects are far more AFL ready and need time at AFL level to develop further whereas our forwards are basically babies or journeyman types.

 

[BrunoV]

This plays into my disdain at going after Wright at all. He's a ruckman who has been forced to be a forward, which is not his natural position. He can kick a goal, like a ruckman does when they drift forward.

Stewart developing as a backman is again forcing a player to play out of position, and that would be at the expense of BZT who we need to develop there.

The only forward combo that makes sense is Hooker, Stewart, Jones, and that's only because Hooker is proven. What happens when his body breaks down this year?

Crauford was getting favourable reports and could have remained as back up for Draper while Bryan develops.

Ben Brown should have been recruited. He'd have drawn more heat than Wright from defenders to allow the young forwards to develop. I don't get why we got Wright, save economic rationalism, but we've got him, so I remain.

I don't think it says much about Wright or Stewart.

Hooker and Hurley have both been struggling for different reasons.

What we're saying, especially with Hurley is that he's not best 22, which he wouldn't be, he's no where near good enough in the third tall/intercept/quarter back role.

Hurley has another 2 years on his contract, ends in 22. Hooker is playing out the 5th year of a deal when he could barely move in year 4.

The saga is the nightmare that keeps giving.

 

[ghostdog]

I don't think it says much about Wright or Stewart.

Hooker and Hurley have both been struggling for different reasons.

What we're saying, especially with Hurley is that he's not best 22, which he wouldn't be, he's no where near good enough in the third tall/intercept/quarter back role.

Hurley has another 2 years on his contract, ends in 22. Hooker is playing out the 5th year of a deal when he could barely move in year 4.

The saga is the nightmare that keeps giving.

That Wright and Stewart are being played out of position, you mean?
Bjchan showed me that Wright was actually drafted as a forward. Has severely underperformed and been over valued then. I guess it's about getting games into Jones and fitting them all into the same side. The only thing I like about Wright at the moment is that he's Draper insurance.

Re Hurley and Hooker, sounds like you've identified an instance of club loyalty to the players. boncer34, what say you?

 

[boncer34]

That Wright and Stewart are being played out of position, you mean?
Bjchan showed me that Wright was actually drafted as a forward. Has severely underperformed and been over valued then. I guess it's about getting games into Jones and fitting them all into the same side. The only thing I like about Wright at the moment is that he's Draper insurance.

Re Hurley and Hooker, sounds like you've identified an instance of club loyalty to the players. boncer34, what say you?

I'd say that's not a smoking gun you're waving.

You're saying the club either knew they'd be cooked when they side them to these contracts, a claim which is hilariously false, or that they currently have no place on an AFL list which I strongly disagree with.

You're also ignoring the saga as extenuating circumstances in an attempt to prove something that doesn't exist. But welcome back to the carousel, I'd have assumed my walking away from your absurd Saad diatribe would've indicated I was happy to agree to disagree. Apparently not.

 

[ghostdog]

I'd say that's not a smoking gun you're waving.

You're saying the club either knew they'd be cooked when they side them to these contracts, a claim which is hilariously false, or that they currently have no place on an AFL list which I strongly disagree with.

You're also ignoring the saga as extenuating circumstances in an attempt to prove something that doesn't exist. But welcome back to the carousel, I'd have assumed my walking away from your absurd Saad diatribe would've indicated I was happy to agree to disagree. Apparently not.

I was just interested to know what you thought of Bruno's view. Settle down!

 

[boncer34]

I was just interested to know what you thought of Bruno's view. Settle down!

It was just weird to pull me back in since I assumed we were done yesterday.

 

[BrunoV]

That Wright and Stewart are being played out of position, you mean?
Bjchan showed me that Wright was actually drafted as a forward. Has severely underperformed and been over valued then. I guess it's about getting games into Jones and fitting them all into the same side. The only thing I like about Wright at the moment is that he's Draper insurance.

Re Hurley and Hooker, sounds like you've identified an instance of club loyalty to the players. boncer34, what say you?

I don't know where the Wright out of position claim has come from but it's wrong. He's a forward, always was, but he's struggled to clunk. That doesn't make him a ruckman it makes him James Stewart, if anything. He should be a very capable relief ruck, a specialist number 2 because he has always been working on that aspect of his game.

Have you looked up the list of key forwards in the league scoring at =/> 2 goals a game or more?

It seems to me you're too focused on the gap from "nothing to Joe Daniher". Or how ever else you want to describe it. That's not the gap in issue.

It's what's involved in Wright developing from his current output to what we want/need.

Arguably that's nothing because 1.3 goals a game and 20%-35% ruck time is all we really need. I'd be interested to know what the average goals for dedicated second ruck is.

But if 2 goals a game is now the benchmark of a quality (second) forward who plays 200 games, Wright has 0.7 to go. That's from playing at a basket case as a ruckman sized kid (he's probably Leuenberger/Draper size which means the development lag time is usually a minimum 4-5 years) and performed at a level that is serviceable enough to have a career.

Wright's foundation is strong. He missed out in the year GC finally started to look the part. He is unlucky that GC have a prodigy number 1, a 210cm giant ruck who was also co-captain and a preference for another former high pick they preferred as a workhorse to compliment the other 2 talls.

He's much closer to being a very effective cog in a machine, and very good player in his own right than what people seem to think. That's not saying he'll be an elite forward. That almost certainly won't happen but it also doesn't need to.

 

[BrunoV]

I was just interested to know what you thought of Bruno's view. Settle down!

I haven't followed your argument with boncer so I'm not entirely clear on what you're getting at.


I wouldn't associate signing players to irresponsibly long deals with loyalty first. It might end up a top 5 motivation, no higher than 5.

I've always been very black and white about this. The players should never have been compensated in any way that involved the football department. They clearly were and it's a massive part of the reason we have continued to be crap.

We've seen the way Dodoro and co have mismanaged the trading of Daniher, in particular, and Fantasia which I'd say gives us a pretty good insight into the way Dodoro and co operate. Stubbornness and delusion can look like an expressions of loyalty.

The responsible thing would have been to sign Hurley and Hooker to 4 year deals, really it probably should have been 3, with performance based criteria for extensions.

 

[The Donners]

I'm not sure about "really killed it" but he was functional, in the middle of a comeback following 18 months of actual (as opposed to fake) OP. Certainly functional enough at about 80% fitness for it to be very encouraging.

We don't have a defender who can stand a monster next year and keep up with that player, not at this stage of the respective careers of Hooker, Reid, Brand and McBride.

I'm pleasantly surprised Stewart in defence is being looked at. It makes sense to have Hooker and Stewart interchangeable. Maybe Hooker can be the number 1 in defence but if he's now just too slow we at least have a second option for the likes of Dixon, Kings, McKay, Daniher, Hawkins/Cameron, Lynch, etc.

Hurley forward is looking for a position for someone who's barely best 22 and unable to contribute (Hooker standing in the goal square occupying 3 players was one of our best scoring routes in 2017). I don't like that. He doesn't have the body that lets him play as the wrecking ball he tried to be and he struggles with overhead marking. Why shoehorn him forward at the expense of Laverde, Jones or Perkins who would all be playing similar roles?

Fake OP?

 

[BrunoV]

Fake OP?

Yes, the one that doesn't impair you physically and/or in any objectively discernible way.