Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[BrunoV]

why do recruiters bother to watch these kids play when they can simply read a draft profile?

The extent to which people can't read and comprehend is astounding. There in lies the irony of your post.

The question is not whether Tsatas can play. He clearly can. To the extent you think I said he cant it's because some douche edited out one line from my post.

Tsatas wouldn't be in the discussion if he couldn't play - that's not what this is about. As an aside, I dont believe a player with his flaws can be the 'best available' when McKenzie, Phillipou, Humphrey, Ginbey, etc are available. I can't think of superstar mids that are not fundamentally contested animals.

You're all drinking Koolaid because we have a shiny new toy, adding more offence to an already offence only midfield, as though if we try that for a 5th time it's going to change things.

 

[brain taylor]

I dont believe a player with his flaws can be the 'best available' when McKenzie, Phillipou, Humphrey, Ginbey, etc are available.

have you watched them lol

 

[Beerfish]

I dont watch the games so I don't really have an informed opinion on players.

Thanks for your honesty.

 

[BrunoV]

have you watched them lol

Name a superstar or top 20 mid in the comp who isn't a manic competitor or otherwise isn't so brutally powerful that his desire doesn't matter.

 

[brain taylor]

Name a superstar or top 20 mid in the comp who isn't a manic competitor or otherwise isn't so brutally powerful that his desire doesn't matter.

i obviously haven't read as many draft profiles as you, 'cos i haven't seen any that say tsatas is not competitive

 

[BrunoV]

i obviously haven't read as many draft profiles as you, 'cos i haven't seen any that say tsatas is not competitive

Okay, great.

Who's next?

 

[brain taylor]

Okay, great.

Who's next?

are you gonna provide anything that supports your point or are you just gonna bluster until you have the last word?

 

[Keystone agony]

Bryan, Nick – 2023
Heppell, Dyson – 2023
Lord, Alister – 2023
McDonald-Tipungwuti, Anthony – 2023
Phillips, Andrew – 2023
Snelling, Will – 2023
Zerk-Thatcher, Brandon – 2023
Parish Darcy - 2023

If we add a SSP then id assume we need to get rid of 4 of the above in 12 months time as a minimum. Obviousily can re rookie as many as we want

Lord, Heppell, Phillips (3) seem the most likely to be gone. Phillips a decent chance to be re rookied if we were to lose Bryan.

The 4th will be interesting. A decent chance that a Zerk or Bryan could ask for a trade or Parish departs via Free Agency

Snelling or Tippa could also be delisted and potentially re rookied if need be

 

[bennyg12]

Is McBride on our list anywhere?

 

[eth-dog]

Is McBride on our list anywhere?

Yep. Has been retained as a Cat B rookie after making it through the draft.

 

[ant555]

The extent to which people can't read and comprehend is astounding. There in lies the irony of your post.

The question is not whether Tsatas can play. He clearly can. To the extent you think I said he cant it's because some douche edited out one line from my post.

Tsatas wouldn't be in the discussion if he couldn't play - that's not what this is about. As an aside, I dont believe a player with his flaws can be the 'best available' when McKenzie, Phillipou, Humphrey, Ginbey, etc are available. I can't think of superstar mids that are not fundamentally contested animals.

You're all drinking Koolaid because we have a shiny new toy, adding more offence to an already offence only midfield, as though if we try that for a 5th time it's going to change things.

Pendlebury says hi

 

[ant555]

Name a superstar or top 20 mid in the comp who isn't a manic competitor or otherwise isn't so brutally powerful that his desire doesn't matter.

Who says Tsatas does not go hard offensively ? Who says he is not a competitor ? Who says in a couple of seasons when he is 185 and 85kg he will not have power ? The knock on him is lack of effort defensively and limited pressure. It is simply not true to say he does not want to compete or take physical contact.
Talk about uninformed opinions

 

[Bjchan13]

I don't mind the balance overall now. Seems obvious that:

1. Heppell is considered a wing. Right call.
2. Only two of Stewart, Cox and McBride will play defence. My money is Cox in defence and one of Stewart/McBride forward. More likely to be McBride.

Another winger would be okay if we went that way. Martin/Langford/Durham in the seniors, Heppell/Davey/??? In the reserves.

My ideal balance is almost there.

Ideal balance for me would be having a best 22 that competes with the best teams every week at AFL level (top 4), and then having a VFL 22 set up and playing the same way as the AFL team. We are trying but i think we're still a long way off having a balanced list.

For example we all know the midfield balance is wrong. Shiel, Parish, Caldwell, Merrett and Hobbs probably all consider themselves best 22 but thats 5 smaller mids trying to squeeze into ideally 2 or 3 spots. Swap Parish with Dunkley and Shiel with Jarrod Berry and no one is questioning picking Tsatas on Monday. Setterfield has been brought in on the cheap and i actually think he needs to be given a chance in the 1s to try and help balance the midfield combinations. But that doesn't help the 5 guys we have trying to squeeze into the 22. We will barely have a midfield at VFL level again. Snelling and Guelfi would be my picks there of our current options. I think Snelling at least could be upgraded at the end of the year to a genuine midfielder type like D'Aloia/Szybkowski

As you mentioned our 3 AFL wings are looking good Durham, Langford and Martin. But the VFL options of Heppell (wont play VFL unfortunately, and in his last year most likely) and A Davey (wont have the size to be a genuine wing) needs reinforcing. Theres probably room on the list for 2 developing genuine wingman.

Theres a lot of unknowns with our defence. We need to find out exactly what roles are planned for Reid and Cox. Probably Stewart as well. We need to find out what the AFL back 7 looks like. Would hate to have 2 x top 10 picks playing VFL in their 3rd year. Also dont think theres enough lockdown potential with the Hind/D'Ambrosio/Lord group of smalls. I dont mind todays selection as Ridley cover.

 

[Bjchan13]

Bryan, Nick – 2023
Heppell, Dyson – 2023
Lord, Alister – 2023
McDonald-Tipungwuti, Anthony – 2023
Phillips, Andrew – 2023
Snelling, Will – 2023
Zerk-Thatcher, Brandon – 2023
Parish Darcy - 2023

If we add a SSP then id assume we need to get rid of 4 of the above in 12 months time as a minimum. Obviousily can re rookie as many as we want

Lord, Heppell, Phillips (3) seem the most likely to be gone. Phillips a decent chance to be re rookied if we were to lose Bryan.

The 4th will be interesting. A decent chance that a Zerk or Bryan could ask for a trade or Parish departs via Free Agency

Snelling or Tippa could also be delisted and potentially re rookied if need be

Lord, Snelling, Heppell for me. Darcy having a huge year and leaving as a free agent would be ideal. Bryan and Phillips im happy with but if Bryan wants to leave for more senior opportunities then we just replace him with another 3rd/4th year developing ruck that will no doubt be on the market. If Flip retires then we need to replace him with senior cover which is also usually available. Tippa isnt exactly old so i hope he's got a few in him still. BZT needs to be clearly overtaken by 2 of Reid/Cox/Hayes before we get rid of our only KP defender. Big year for Stewart as well. If we cant get regular games out of him we need to just cut him and pay him out if we need to.

 

[Keystone agony]

Lord, Snelling, Heppell for me. Darcy having a huge year and leaving as a free agent would be ideal. Bryan and Phillips im happy with but if Bryan wants to leave for more senior opportunities then we just replace him with another 3rd/4th year developing ruck that will no doubt be on the market. If Flip retires then we need to replace him with senior cover which is also usually available. Tippa isnt exactly old so i hope he's got a few in him still. BZT needs to be clearly overtaken by 2 of Reid/Cox/Hayes before we get rid of our only KP defender. Big year for Stewart as well. If we cant get regular games out of him we need to just cut him and pay him out if we need to.

It depends when were aiming to seriously challenge again i guess, how far away are we?

If its 2025 then a Zerrett, Caldwell, Hobbs, Perkins and Tsatas is a very young/inexperienced midfield group. Im not sure how far that group can go that early.

Maybe theres a quality free agent gun mid that could help end 2024, but that cant always be guaranteed 12 months out

 

[Mikevk123]

In-
Will Setterfield

12

Will Setterfield

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.8

4star

D

14.0

3star

K

8.9

4star

HB

5.1

3star

M

1.9

2star

T

4.4

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

1.4

4star

25- Midfielder
Sam Weideman

10

Sam Weideman

Age

27

Ht

197cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

4.9

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.5

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.3

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.5

1star

G

1.8

5star

D

9.2

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.4

3star

G

1.2

4star

25- Key Forward
Elijah Tsatsas 18- Midfielder
Lewis Hayes 18- Key defender
Alwyn Davey

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

Jnr 18- Forward/Mid
Jaden Davyey 18- Forward
Anthony Munkara 18- Forward
Rhett Montgomery 22- Defender

 

[Bjchan13]

It depends when were aiming to seriously challenge again i guess, how far away are we?

If its 2025 then a Zerrett, Caldwell, Hobbs, Perkins and Tsatas is a very young/inexperienced midfield group. Im not sure how far that group can go that early.

Maybe theres a quality free agent gun mid that could help end 2024, but that cant always be guaranteed 12 months out

There's a lot to play out but if Parish considers his options and gets an offer next year that would get us a top 5 pick we'd be crazy to try and stop him.

 

[BrunoV]

Pendlebury says hi

Fair enough. We're up to one.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Fair enough. We're up to one.

Macrae
McCluggage

 

[Beerfish]

Macgregor

 

[Keystone agony]

Fair enough. We're up to one.

Zac Merrett

 

[citizen-erased]

In-
Will Setterfield 25- Midfielder
Sam Weideman 25- Key Forward
Elijah Tsatsas 18- Midfielder
Lewis Hayes 18- Key defender
Alwyn Davey Jnr 18- Forward/Mid
Jaden Davyey 18- Forward
Anthony Munkara 18- Forward
Rhett Montgomery 22- Defender

id classify Alwyn more mid/fwd, but splitting hairs there.

Tippa returning is a big in as well.

 

[Ants]

Overall, looking back at the trade and draft periods, I thought we did alright but there were a few head scratchers. I really don't understand having Stewart and Weideman on the list, let alone Stewart getting two years. I thought we could have skipped Hayes, but if the club really rated him and Scott wanted another 200cm KPD, then ok. I also thought getting Montgomerie was odd - I agree with getting another defender but I would (a) have emphasised someone with a stronger defensive side and (b) I'm not sure why it wouldn't have been better to trial him across the summer with Keays and maybe other options for an SSP slot.

There were some plusses. We obviously got lucky with Munkura to Cat B, which I think is a good place for him; 2-3 years without the normal list pressure just to develop. And the assumption is we got very lucky with the Daveys using picks 45 & 54. Let's hope that assumption holds. And I think the list balance is pretty decent, depending a little on how Setterfield fits in and what he can do.

I thought Tsatas was fine, he should complement Hobbs and Perkins. There might be a little bit of a view he and Davey might play similar roles, and he does need to work on his defensive game, but we do lack speed. And if he's getting 30-40 possessions without a high endurance base, he clearly knows how to football.

I do think when the top 8 teams were topping up their sides in what was considered a weaker draft, we may have missed an opportunity to trade out some players. Shiel due to his age, Lav as I think his limitations are high. Maybe even one of Merrett or Parish if we decided we're not too close. Two older mids out plus Lav might have got us a nice selection of 2022 & 2023 first and second round picks, and a bit more space for the kids to breathe. I really don't want to see young midfielders spending as much time in non-midfield slots as 2022. Also, I'm of the opinion McGrath would be a top midfielder but is played in defence as we've too many similar options who can't play elsewhere. So McGrath plays back as he can play two positions. IMO trading out Parish and moving McGrath back to midfield wouldn't hurt us too much on-field in 2024 on, and would strengthen our draft hand a lot. But Essendon never really trades players out of their own volition, unless there are major indiscretions (Lovett), salary cap (Jacobs, Hardwick, 2002 cohort), or for some reason you're named Hooker (repeatedly offered him).

I also see no reason why we can't bounce back to mid-table mediocrity next year, so I'm not really particularly hopeful of a major set of draft picks next year. We'll have a weaker draw, more games experience in our best 22, hopefully a fitter/available Walla, Langford, Stringer, and so should be all primed for 11-12 wins.

 

[nipst@r]

I just don't see the list strategy. Who's the potential 2nd fwd match winner. Stewart - no, Jones - hopeful but less likely (I would have liked to try him as kpd if struggles again), weideman - worth a punt but ?.

Kpd - we will find two serviceable kpd but who has all aus potential (Hurley/hooker like) Reid? Hayes? Don't see it. Think they will be good AFL players but not seeing the superstar potential.

Mid - tsatas and Perkins are what I'm most boyish but can they be Brownlow chances carry a team.

Our issue is we have good players but not great and yet individually and team wise we play a style a step or 2 better than what they are. I.e no defensive structure/running, sacrificial acts.

Fine to lack defensive side when you a danger, petracca, Cripps, dusty, but parish, shiel and Merrett aren't near that.

Perkins and Ridley I hope can get to the point but not sure who else has the potential to make the whole team better.

Stringer has it but is inconsistent, unfit and getting older.

Merrett gets tagged out and is just a step below. Parish good but not good enough to cover his weaknesses as much as team/he would like.

Happy we finally went for some X factor not sure itl be the four quarter wow kind though but sure Tsatas and Davey will at least keep me watching for some brilliance.

 

[nipst@r]

Overall, looking back at the trade and draft periods, I thought we did alright but there were a few head scratchers. I really don't understand having Stewart and Weideman on the list, let alone Stewart getting two years. I thought we could have skipped Hayes, but if the club really rated him and Scott wanted another 200cm KPD, then ok. I also thought getting Montgomerie was odd - I agree with getting another defender but I would (a) have emphasised someone with a stronger defensive side and (b) I'm not sure why it wouldn't have been better to trial him across the summer with Keays and maybe other options for an SSP slot.

There were some plusses. We obviously got lucky with Munkura to Cat B, which I think is a good place for him; 2-3 years without the normal list pressure just to develop. And the assumption is we got very lucky with the Daveys using picks 45 & 54. Let's hope that assumption holds. And I think the list balance is pretty decent, depending a little on how Setterfield fits in and what he can do.

I thought Tsatas was fine, he should complement Hobbs and Perkins. There might be a little bit of a view he and Davey might play similar roles, and he does need to work on his defensive game, but we do lack speed. And if he's getting 30-40 possessions without a high endurance base, he clearly knows how to football.

I do think when the top 8 teams were topping up their sides in what was considered a weaker draft, we may have missed an opportunity to trade out some players. Shiel due to his age, Lav as I think his limitations are high. Maybe even one of Merrett or Parish if we decided we're not too close. Two older mids out plus Lav might have got us a nice selection of 2022 & 2023 first and second round picks, and a bit more space for the kids to breathe. I really don't want to see young midfielders spending as much time in non-midfield slots as 2022. Also, I'm of the opinion McGrath would be a top midfielder but is played in defence as we've too many similar options who can't play elsewhere. So McGrath plays back as he can play two positions. IMO trading out Parish and moving McGrath back to midfield wouldn't hurt us too much on-field in 2024 on, and would strengthen our draft hand a lot. But Essendon never really trades players out of their own volition, unless there are major indiscretions (Lovett), salary cap (Jacobs, Hardwick, 2002 cohort), or for some reason you're named Hooker (repeatedly offered him).

I also see no reason why we can't bounce back to mid-table mediocrity next year, so I'm not really particularly hopeful of a major set of draft picks next year. We'll have a weaker draw, more games experience in our best 22, hopefully a fitter/available Walla, Langford, Stringer, and so should be all primed for 11-12 wins.

Spot on I hate the Stewart two years even more post draft now. Don't mind the draftees but the argument for Stewart and two years was depth, our depth for a non competing team (next two years anyway) is draftee depth not injury prone mid tier 28 year Olds.