Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[andleanback]

2015 was a year of Hird delusion, really. He thought we were a Top 4 side based on 2013 - tbf we did win 14 games in 2013 despite basically giving up with a few weeks to go - it was by far the best season we've produced.

He thought he could build on that. Without the WADA disaster who knows, perhaps he could have. But the season just imploded.

We actually started the year really well. The bottom fell out when Wada/ asada (can’t remember which one) appealed the Finding and the players just lost all heart. That wasn’t hirds fault, up and until the point of the season we were looking pretty good.

 

[ant555]

Maybe the terms rebuilding is too loaded but we were taking high picks as a result of losing one of our best prospects. it's inherently some sort of reset, rekindling, etc.

Anyway it does not change your original comment. Our list building has been all over the place as far as strategy goes. We may disagree on some players and their value but as a whole it has bee hard to follow what some of the thinking has been when you look at it.

 

[ant555]

We actually started the year really well. The bottom fell out when Wada/ asada (can’t remember which one) appealed the Finding and the players just lost all heart. That wasn’t hirds fault, up and until the point of the season we were looking pretty good.

There was also a lot of drama over Bomber moving aside for Hird to come back with a lot of the club divided over who should have been the coach.

 

[andleanback]

There was also a lot of drama over Bomber moving aside for Hird to come back with a lot of the club divided over who should have been the coach.

The players clearly loved Hird and played for him, the win hawthorn in round 2 showed that. His time was up once, the saga started again. Even if Thompson had stayed on I doubt he was the right man to guide the club through the next couple of years.

 

[ant555]

The players clearly loved Hird and played for him, the win hawthorn in round 2 showed that. His time was up once, the saga started again. Even if Thompson had stayed on I doubt he was the right man to guide the club through the next couple of years.

I am 100% sure now that Bomber was not the man for the job.
When I say the club was divided it was more the board and influential coterie groups in the back ground . There where always questions being asked and a lot of the board where unhappy that Hird took legal action against the AFL and then the threats of legal action against the club if he was not reinstated as coach. The board wanted Bomber. The season was always going to tank at some stage.

 

[andleanback]

I am 100% sure now that Bomber was not the man for the job.
When I say the club was divided it was more the board and influential coterie groups in the back ground . There where always questions being asked and a lot of the board where unhappy that Hird took legal action against the AFL and then the threats of legal action against the club if he was not reinstated as coach. The board wanted Bomber. The season was always going to tank at some stage.

We’ll never really know, all I know it the appeal sucked the life out of the playing group and club in general.

 

[Lore]

Did we even think we where rebuilding in 2015 ?
I know we had two early picks but that was more on the back of Carlisle leaving and we added Bird in part of that trade. IMO we thought we where still pushing for top 4. We took Mitch Brown late in the ND as well.

I think at the time Dodoro described it as a 'mini rebuild'. Don't think we finished the mini-rebuild until the SSSS stuff a couple of years later, which replaced the experience of Hibberd, Melksham, Carlisle, Jobe with Saad, Smith, Stringer, Shiel (like for like but smaller and more explosive..?)

 

[Burzum]

I am 100% sure now that Bomber was not the man for the job.
When I say the club was divided it was more the board and influential coterie groups in the back ground . There where always questions being asked and a lot of the board where unhappy that Hird took legal action against the AFL and then the threats of legal action against the club if he was not reinstated as coach. The board wanted Bomber. The season was always going to tank at some stage.

Wonder how many influential people knew about Bomber's addiction and still wanted him as the coach.

 

[CBombers17]

Who are our senior players these days though?

The below are the players who have played 100 games, or will reach 100 games played this season (Ambrose is next after Tipungwuti on games played at 87).

We have a fairly inexperienced side where many of our older players are either on the fringes of our best 22 (Bellchambers, Zaharakis) or injured (Hooker, Heppell, Stringer, Daniher)

Our experienced heads are either not playing, or not amongst our best players if they are.

We're in a strange place list-wise, we have a dearth of quality, experienced leaders playing at the moment.

Zaharakis, Hurley, Smith, Shiel, Saad & Merrett are playing 'leaders' in terms of experience, and I wouldn't argue that any of them seem like they're not on-board with the game plan or disgruntled.

Mostly the midfield. But really anyone else in the best 22 who can't or won't play their part - in other words, weak links in the whole of team defensive chain.

Even if you just looked at players who aren't up to it (senior or otherwise) there may be a long list. As the article states - we do not currently have the players to play this style.

Merrett's probably a reasonable example. There's been talk on here about his attitude and he was dropped from the leadership group. What if Rutten want's him gone this year and the club doesn't? Or any other 'star players' that we historically never trade.

I don't think the club expected to have to make major list changes to get success with Rutton (this is a critical error if they have made it IMO). They added the SSSS' because they thought we were close. I think they expected Rutton to just add the defensive magic we needed and we would win a few finals with Cara and move on.

Well here we are, however long later, and a Club great like Lloyd has put it right on Rutten as the coach in charge. Be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Kakkle]

Wonder how many influential people knew about Bomber's addiction and still wanted him as the coach.

It's been an open secret since his playing days.

 

[Burzum]

It's been an open secret his playing days.

That's the thing. It was a rumour for years and the people who have sway at the club wanted to make a known drug addict the head coach during/right after the ASADA case. He might have managed it well during his Geelong days but it comes to a head at some point, and it did. People who thought that was a good idea should really have no influence on decisions at Essendon but alas...

 

[CBombers17]

That's the thing. It was a rumour for years and the people who have sway at the club wanted to make a known drug addict the head coach during/right after the ASADA case. He might have managed it well during his Geelong days but it comes to a head at some point, and it did. People who thought that was a good idea should really have no influence on decisions at Essendon but alas...

So you have this type of astounding decision by the club (where if we hadn't just been beaten to within an in of our existence a lot more would have been made of) - and yet people actually believe our list management plan and coaching appointment / strategy will be cohesive and well developed...

 

[Yoda_]

I'm nervous we're going to do something silly regarding a tall forward if/when Joe leaves.

Long story short, Hooker forward is the right move. I'd build something around him, a tall, as well as three dangerous small forwards in Walla, Smith and Fantasia. Mozzie is another who interests me because I think he can create but also put pressure on.

If Joe leaves, we may as well reset the list and move on some other senior players and (don't say it, don't say it, don't say it) re build. That is how important Joe Daniher is to our structure and game plans.

Im not relying on an injury prone mid 20's pseudo KPF &/or a soon to be 30 year old journeyman not capable of holding down a #1/#2 KPF position on a list.

If we can't recruit a strong marking KPF then we may as well hit the draft and reset the list the best way we can.

 

[Kakkle]

Inspired by some of the Harding article discussions, and this thread...

View attachment 932335

Tall forwards: shades of red
Medium forwards: shades of orange
Small forwards: shades of yellow
Other players: blues/greens/purples

(Langford, Zaharakis, Stringer, Daniher, Hooker, Walla are deliberately a little easier to identify than the others. The other colours duplicate a little)

But, why?

 

[DapperJong]

But, why?

 

[Zach Package]

Yeah I think we are fundamentally disagreeing. My thinking is if you’re making it easy, you won’t develop as much as you could.

Yep, agree to disagree. I think Max King on Harry Taylor tonight is a good example of a kid getting asked to lead the line with little to no support and getting a physical working over and an absolute bath.

 

[brutus76]

If Hooksy retired a year early (this year):

Hurls forward for the last 2 years of his career

FF Tippa Hurls Mozzie
HFF Stringer Stewart/Smacks/Jones Langford

 

[Big Slam]

I’d like to see Redman played on a wing - especially when Ambrose comes back.

Redman is a two-way player, can take an overhead mark, possesses some good speed, is great with 2nd and 3rd efforts, can/will go to ground when needed and is a suburb kick who could deliver well into the forward line.

He appears to have a fairly high football IQ and would provide a linking option to transition the ball out of the backline and into the forward line.


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[faible]

If Hooksy retired a year early (this year):

Hurls forward for the last 2 years of his career

FF Tippa Hurls Mozzie
HFF Stringer Stewart/Smacks/Jones Langford

Am I in 2010?

Hurley forward is long gone.

 

[Mr Bultitude]

This may be naive and possibly too trusting of our footy dep, but I feel that Hooker forward would already be a thing if it was seen as worth doing.

 

[Seagrave_Holmes]

I think the most simple thing that could be done to improve the forward line (personnel wise) is to play Hooker forward for his final couple of years.

He will feast on the dumb highballs and if he doesn't mark it then he brings the smalls into the game. Plus he is starting to slow down in mobility so he should be less of a liability up forward than down back.

This will also give a couple of year for the developing forwards (Jones/Gown/Eyre) to develop their forward craft/bodies.

I think long term plans shouldn't be made with Daniher, McKenna or Fantasia in mind for obvious reasons.

Hopefully next year we see something like this:

Tippa - Hooker - Mozzie
Stringer - *Relief Ruck* - ????

Stringer and Tippa are more or less our best forwards.

If Crauford is the real deal, then we could potentially see a viable partnership at AFL level between him and Draper. They can both split time in the ruck and up be a second key target up forward. Otherwise McKernan could play this role as he has in the past but we should be looking for an upgrade on him because he gives away too many frees in the ruck.

The last spot in the forwardline could be another mid size marking target. This could be Laverde or Townsend, but they Laverde is injury prone and Townsend is simply too limited in ability. Perhaps it would be worth looking at Langford properly as a forward or even Redman.

 

[CBombers17]

If Hooksy retired a year early (this year):

Hurls forward for the last 2 years of his career

FF Tippa Hurls Mozzie
HFF Stringer Stewart/Smacks/Jones Langford

i think everything needs to be on the table ti improve us as a side. If this means Hurley plays a roles up forward at some stage then so be it. I'm sure he would play his role. He might even enjoy a new challenge in his last year's - like Richo on the wing - I doubt we will see it though.

 

[Mootsy]

There's really no point in turning Hooker into a forward at this point of his career when you could be improving players with another decade of football, he's a developed career Defender and a damn good one. There's a lot of potential with Draper playing a role like Allessio, Daniher, Stewart, Stringer, Tippa, Fantasia and the potential to recruit another key forward. Mckernan needs to take an extra step in work rate, positioning and leading, self confidence. We actually have a very good forward line, they just don't seem confident on game day.

In regards to the problems.
I just don't see players wanting to always lead for the ball because they want to kick a goal with self confidence, meaning how many times do you see a player leading into space for a mark, calling for the ball and then being happy to want to kick the goal. Now, we know defence is better these days than it was 15 years ago. Defenders are much more dynamic. Whoever is running the forward line coaching, i'd be filling spots with naturally good forwards.

Stop trying to turn players into something they are not especially if they aren't enthusiastic about the challenge in a professional football sense.

If it's not working, make changes. Use some hot dang logic. Drop players that are struggling and reward them back into the best 22 with good VFL showings.(in a positive sense, being dropped is a good thing and it's a reality check) But it can be done by still feeling good that it takes a lot of work to be a consistent pick for best 22.

Also, there is clearly a problem with the delivery from our midfield to CHF and the forward line, whether its communication, positioning, leading and work rate. Something is a miss and it likely isn't rocket science to turn that around.

I think we'll get a better sense once the injury list is minimal again. It's hard to gauge right now.

It's clear that the whole team isn't playing confident football just yet, for whatever reasons.

This is irrelevant but by rewarding players in the VFL, scratch matchers, Hibberd and Clarke should definitely be playing.

 

[Mootsy]

To add to the above. If i was Essendon, I'd be focussing way more on offensive football and midfield dynamics then i would defence, heck i'd even ditch defensive focus and put all the energy into the other end of the ground. The defence is not the issue right now. It's confidence in the forward fifty and midfield area transition. Marking/Contested marking nullifies 50/50 turnovers. eradicate fumbling with the ball, etc
Why not get the team aware of forward transition, leading, marking, teamwork etc..

The complexity is that every opponent has their own unique game style and adapting is not easy.

However, football fundamentals and confident playing style can go along way.

Also why doesn't EFC hire a sports tactical analysis expert.

Anyway, the way i see it, they have great training facilities, a pretty good list. They have the ability to research their opponents and learn the fundamentals of the game week by week.

I just don't think there is any excuse for such poor performance in these areas. At the very least you want to see the effort and the passion to want to play well, even if you lose a percentage of the contested play.

I really doubt the fans want to be seeing fumble, confused footballers who look lost. That's something you'd expect during a one-off university football match with amateurs who play a few times a year. Not Essendon.

I'm sure they practice kick-to-kick, and drills to hold onto the ball, not fumble. Maybe they can try to channel confidence at training to actual game-day, showtime, something. Try something.

 

[Mootsy]

This also might seem harsh, but the saying, "You had one job" is actually relevant. I don't want that to seem negative. I think positivity is better. However if your role is to play a forward position and you are scoreless game in and game out, not taking marks, not leading, turning the ball over, then why are you there and what are you being paid for? You aren't playing beach football with no accountability..