Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[mike123]

Having two picks inside the top 10 of the most recent 'superstar' draft and missing on both hasn't helped.

Think about where we'd be as a club had we collected Bontompelli and Cripps instead of Scharenberg and Freeman at the end of 2013 (or Zach Merret, Matt Crouch, Rory Lobb, Barrass, Salem, Zak Jones, Dunston, Ben Brown etc.)

The duo's problems set our list management back massively - you're taking away two of the most elite kids in the country. Put 80+ games into any of the blokes I've listed in a Pies jumper and dear lord, do we look better.

To miss on two guys who should have now been becoming the true backbone and future of the list is a disaster.

Imagine, if you can, Jordan Roughead and Jordan Lewis both being crippled with injuries early in their Hawthorn careers - still think that team becomes a powerhouse?

With all due respect to Scharenberg who is still on the list and Freeman, who is still yet to play a game - picking them may not have been a mistake at the time - because you can predict future injuries etc - but what has happened since has crippled the 'rebuild on the run plan'.

When you miss on first round picks, your rebuild is f*cked. We've seen it time and time again.

And boy, did we miss.

Hard to think that any of that is Buckley's fault?

He decided to trade Shaw instead of a pick for Adams so yes it's his fault.


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[No SPIN]

LOL - same posters bagging Bucks because we should have beaten Carl, now out themselves as hypocrites given they think Carl has a better list.
Do you guys think before you post.

 

[Chameleon75]

LOL - same posters bagging Bucks because we should have beaten Carl, now out themselves as hypocrites given they think Carl has a better list.
Do you guys think before you post.

I'm not in either camp, but one is about the now the other about the future.

 

[No SPIN]

I think my point stands about the hypocrisy. They are all very transparent.
And I see your point but don't agree their list is better.
They are well coached and confident in their game plan which has nothing to do with talent.

 

[CFC2010]

I think my point stands about the hypocrisy. They are all very transparent.
And I see your point but don't agree their list is better.
They are well coached and confident in their game plan which has nothing to do with talent.

Hi No Spin I don't know if it is hypocrisy but I am still annoyed that Bucks learnt nothing from last year in the coaches box...........because IMO he made the same mistakes two years in a row.

By the way I think Bolton will be a good coach.

 

[TheSierBear]

I think this is the worst post in BigFooty history.

Have you seen the team he sends out onto the park? Fair dinkum its extraordinary they've won a single game.

Bolton has instilled that they now play footy with intensity, excitement & have a significant amount of highly talented young kids on their list which will only continue to improve with experience.

If our list overall in the 2017 season is only two wins better than Carltons, i'll give it up. But this is the difference a high quality coach & man motivator can make. Mark my words, they'll finish comfortably ahead of us in 2018 if we don't make significant changes.

Carlton have awesome kids.
Pies kids are shit.

But when it comes to coaching,
Bolton has a shit list and gets the best out of his players, an awesome coach.
Buckley is a failure cause he has a good list, albeit the youngsters are average and Pendles is shit.

Now you know me, and I know you by now obviously, but I will tell it like it is. You shout down a lot of posters on here but your reactionary negative views make you a walking contradiction.

Either Carlton don't have this amazing future or Bolton isn't the coach you make him out to be. Otherwise they'd be finals bound cause their best players this year are Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer, Jones, Docherty and co, - there youngsters don't stand out. And if Carlton had Degoey he'd be their best kid, kiddo...

Now I'm on night-shift so am a little washed out. See you in a bit. Checking out.

 

[cityslick1]

Carlton have awesome kids.
Pies kids are shit.

But when it comes to coaching,
Bolton has a shit list and gets the best out of his players, an awesome coach.
Buckley is a failure cause he has a good list, albeit the youngsters are average and Pendles is shit.

Now you know me, and I know you by now obviously, but I will tell it like it is. You shout down a lot of posters on here but your reactionary negative views make you a walking contradiction.

Either Carlton don't have this amazing future or Bolton isn't the coach you make him out to be. Otherwise they'd be finals bound cause their best players this year are Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer, Jones, Docherty and co, - there youngsters don't stand out. And if Carlton had Degoey he'd be their best kid, kiddo...

Now I'm on night-shift so am a little washed out. See you in a bit. Checking out.

I'd say that Weitering, SPS, Curnow & Marchbank will all either be just as good or better than De Goey. & KPP's are worth more as they're in shorter supply.

Carlton's spine is close to sorted, whilst ours has holes and ageing players all over it, with the departure of Dunn, Reid & Goldsack in the not-too-distant future.

We desperately need McLarty & Schade to become guns, then recruit a starting 22 key forward THIS off-season, and draft another one at the end of this year. Otherwise Darcy will be relief rucking to Treloar, who kicks it to Darcy in the F50, with Darcy providing the chop-out, whilst Darcy runs back to cover the opposition CHF from a rebound attack...

 

[jackcass]

Carlton have awesome kids.
Pies kids are shit.

But when it comes to coaching,
Bolton has a shit list and gets the best out of his players, an awesome coach.
Buckley is a failure cause he has a good list, albeit the youngsters are average and Pendles is shit.

Now you know me, and I know you by now obviously, but I will tell it like it is. You shout down a lot of posters on here but your reactionary negative views make you a walking contradiction.

Either Carlton don't have this amazing future or Bolton isn't the coach you make him out to be. Otherwise they'd be finals bound cause their best players this year are Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer, Jones, Docherty and co, - there youngsters don't stand out. And if Carlton had Degoey he'd be their best kid, kiddo...

Now I'm on night-shift so am a little washed out. See you in a bit. Checking out.

Having a few bob each way when you factor in about 68% (31/45) of our list is 25 or under. About 65% (30/46) at the Blues for the record.

I tend to agree, I think we have just as much quality in our kids as most teams and ours are ahead of the Blues kids. It's only those introduced under SOS that are starting to shine but let's not forget there's a healthy dollop of 1st round picks among that group. Our issue is that the development of many of ours hasn't gone as you'd hope. Many have way less games than you'd expect for players their age and time in the system.

 

[TradeDraft]

Bucks Playing his Love Child Blair over the Future of the Club in Daicos and Brown is a HUGE reason why he needs to go/get the Sack

 

[unplugged]

Bucks Playing his Love Child Blair over the Future of the Club in Daicos and Brown is a HUGE reason why he needs to go/get the Sack

Daicos and Brown will play - and will be regular players - when they are truly ready.

 

[TradeDraft]

Daicos and Brown will play - and will be regular players - when they are truly ready.

Still worth Playing them over Blair who has no Future at the Club

 

[unplugged]

Still worth Playing them over Blair who has no Future at the Club

Yes and no. I reckon players like Jack Watts are a prime example of a player coming in too early. Yes it's good for their development, sometimes... but if they're not getting the footy, they're getting intimidated or are getting their arse handed to them it can definitely void them of confidence.

If we have to put up with Blair for a few months too many to save the first few years of Daicos and Brown's careers... I guess I can handle it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

There's not enough alcohol in my house for this.

Not even sure what point you're trying to make or what point of mine you disagreed with?

Are you ok?

It's probably on me, I forget that I actually have no idea how old the people on here are.

To be fair development looks externally at least to be a BIG PROBLEM and I'll agree it is not the sole problem and this particular dilemma is not wholly bucks's fault. I have every confidence if we had better player development we'd have better players and if I were a betting man i'd be backing that the review is looking very seriously at our current development. Look at 99 in 3 years from there with a largely unchanged list we went from spoon to gf; I'd argue list development is just as fruitful if not more than list management

 

[Greening Magic]

To be fair development looks externally at least to be a BIG PROBLEM and I'll agree it is not the sole problem and this particular dilemma is not wholly bucks's fault. I have every confidence if we had better player development we'd have better players and if I were a betting man i'd be backing that the review is looking very seriously at our current development. Look at 99 in 3 years from there with a largely unchanged list we went from spoon to gf; I'd argue list development is just as fruitful if not more than list management

This intrigued me a little so I had a look.
11 players on our list in 99 played in the 2002 GF.
6 players were brought in from other clubs and 5 were drafted after '99 to round out the 22.

 

[Carringbush2010]

This intrigued me a little so I had a look.
11 players on our list in 99 played in the 2002 GF.
6 players were brought in from other clubs and 5 were drafted after '99 to round out the 22.

I stand corrected, so I guess it's obviously a combination of management and development is a large perpetrator to our current disaster. I still believe that we are not reaching the potential of our list though where as a team like Melbourne and Richmond are. I reckon if we could improve our players like those teams then we'd where those teams are now

 

[PieBeast]

Daicos and Brown will play - and will be regular players - when they are truly ready.

WTF is Blair ready for, dwarf throwing?

 

[Queenie Hearts]

So you entire argument re Bolton Not playing kids this year is based around that 1 game against us . Don't let the actual facts get in the way of making a false argument.
And you are clearly making the argument to defend Buckley.. which is your obvious agenda on this board. You are now in this post making the youth excuse for him... AGAIN.
Do you think we are the only team that fields that many sub 50 gamers? We rank 3rd in the league for players who have played 100 or more games. This is the list we have to choose from. Inexperience has not been an excuse for us given this FACT; especially after recruiting a bunch of 30 year Olds in the off season. Melbourne are pushing for a top 4 spot.. and by your own admission they played 9 players with under 50 games experience, to our 10. So where and what is your argument there??? You've just emphasised mine... We have no youth and inexperience excuse.

Again. Debutants played in 2017, Bolton 7, Buckley 1.

I am not sure why we care about Bolton and his success or otherwise. That is Carlton's problem. For me, I assess Buckley on his record and my experience of watching the team he selects each week trying to execute with confusion and hesitation on a game plan that appears overly complex and disconnected to the level of skill the current players have. Sometimes the selections boggle my mind. He has had 6 years to get this moving in the right direction. Continuously backing in players based on work ethic over talent such as Blair and Smith does not appear to be looking to build for the future. I really wanted him to succeed but it is not to be.


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[unplugged]

WTF is Blair ready for, dwarf throwing?

He's clearly ready to blackmail certain coaches with copies of their nudes

 

[ZerokooL]

Bucks Playing his Love Child Blair over the Future of the Club in Daicos and Brown is a HUGE reason why he needs to go/get the Sack

As much as I luvved Bucks as a player, I have to agree with you on this one TD.

At the time of this post, Blair had kicked 4 goals in 2017. Now if I'm correct here, we essentially have no chance on making finals right? If so, why isn't he blooding youth?

I'm not only talking about getting games into Daicos and Brown... what about Kirby? He is currently the leading VFL goal kicker with 30 goals!! You can't tell me they're not ready either, as there's big bodies in VFL, just like AFL... Perhaps it's his attitude? But the point is we don't know unless we at least give some of these guys a taste right?

I think it's fair to say that some people might be misconstrued with Buckley's intentions after this Blair selection... as in is he putting himself in front of the best interests of the club?

Like to hear anyone's constructive thoughts?

 

[Sco80]

As many clubs do we overestimated the quality of our list. We hold onto list cloggers or players that won't take us to the next level, for too long. We have been extremely poor in our recruiting of experienced/ recycled players. Would we have been better off making a $million dollar offer to a KPP last year rather than recruiting Wells and Mayne?

Of course. Let's be honest wells hasn't given us much because he is injured a lot of the time and Mayne? Who knows. Hopefully he comes good next year because as of now he is a dead set pimple.

 

[Sco80]

Because it is considered more likely that if the predecessor stayed on as head coach instead of Nathan we would've won the flag

We should of had 3 flags. The succession plan ****ed us royally

 

[Sco80]

Buckley should have held on and kept challenging then bottom out once we can't challenge anymore, instead he done neither, cut the challenge short and hasn't even started the rebuild yet. You should either be challenging or building towards your next challenge Buckley has done neither.


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Exactly. If your going to do it right you bottom out and build up from there

 

[Robroy22]

Lol...Caro's just dumped another load of....I mean written another constructive piece journalism on our situation.
Golly she loves us!
(Makes me proud)

 

[Sco80]

We couldn't have bottomed out in 2015 starting 8-3 and we didn't even have a first round pick for the 2016 draft so there was less value in bottoming out.


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Why is it too much to ask? Bontempeli does it week in week out for example.

 

[Sco80]

A

Agreed he's tracking well as you say however (forgot to mention what I stated was only my opinion) I can't help but feel his development would've been better if we had another "presence" target to give him a shot at learning his own craft better. Externally it looks like he's been thrown in the deep end out of necessity because trav is not there. Sure we have white and cox but the opposition KPD's will by and large go straight to Moore as he is now our number 1 forward and probably a year or two before he should be

And white has hardly played this year