2nds The Adelaide Crows Reserves - sponsored by Bendigo Bank

[Bailey01]

The Crows reserves had 19/22 players on AFL salaries playing on the weekend, yet they lost and are at the bottom of the table.

18/19 year olds playing and the deadwood

 

[bluebob1]

You are missing the point. We have our own issues, that's not in question. The point is without your concessions and your cap you wouldn't have made the finals let alone be top of the table by a long way. You've been gifted the flag, now time for you to leave the conversation because it's going around in circles. The threads about Adelaide reserves not Port.

We will see how Port are going when the afl team have some injuries. They have had only an average of one best 22 player per week out due to injury. If they get four injuries (maybe the afl average) then the Magpies will lose their best four players. The Crows have had 4-5 best 22 players out every week so the SANFL team has been poor.

 

[FR0GGY]

18/19 year olds playing and the deadwood

And under that graham

 

[Mike Smyth]

Why? Just pointing out that Nobody seemed to care when Centrals were rorting the system to win 10 flags in 12 years, but the minute the Magpies dominate 7 rounds of footy, suddenly the sky is falling.

Show us in black and white how Centrals were rorting the system.

 

[Mike Smyth]

C'mon you ain't serious, let's say Centrals rorted it by $300k, you've just pointed out you have a $7M salary cap. Now of course only part of this would be part of your reserves, but what would Butcher be on annually? $300k? And he's only one player. You've also got the advantage of AFL facilities and player development.

The Magpies have been shit for years, you've been gifted this flag and if you can't understand that and acknowledge it, you need to tell your story elsewhere because you are in fantasy land.

You're wasting your time trying to speak logic with these morons.

 

[HaroldOliver]

Show us in black and white how Centrals were rorting the system.

Centrals weren't stupid enough to put their rorting in writing....

 

[Mike Smyth]

Centrals weren't stupid enough to put their rorting in writing....

Exactly because it never happened.

 

[jackster83]

Pfftt. All these mercenary interstate recruits moved to Lizbeff for the ambience.

Could say the same for Port Adelaide...

I know of one ex-AFL player who was given a six figure paying job to relocate interstate to play for the Port Magpies (would be about 10 years ago now).

 

[Mike Smyth]

Could say the same for Port Adelaide...

I know of one ex-AFL player who was given a six figure paying job to relocate interstate to play for the Port Magpies (would be about 10 years ago now).

"yeah but....um.....errr...........um..........but...but...We exist to win premierships"

 

[Malibu#27]

Whereas we can use that team soley for development. The rise of Charlie Cameron is a big win for our reserves model IMO. Far more important than being on top of the SANFL ladder.

So you don't think Ports reserves model is helping them develop players ?

 

[Macca19]

Do you not think there should be a similar model for Crows & Port?

The models will be identical next year, as was always the case. They would have been identical this year but the SANFL clubs werent prepared to take on the cost of Ports zone this year. And in any case, the make up of the top up players isnt worlds apart, its been over played something chronic.

 

[Macca19]

Their 'top up' guys are all SANFL quality. Slattery and Summerton are high quality players at that level and the others are solid. Our guys pretty much change every week and are average at best bar Thompson and Davis-Neale.

Our top up players have been made to look better than they really are because our fringe AFL guys have all been flying and we've had a minimal injury list. If you look statistically there wouldnt be much difference between the stats our top ups and your top ups have been getting. The SANFL and its clubs had the right to veto any of our top up players - like they did with Marlon Motlop. Of the top up players that have played for us this year:

Biemans - Boaks sisters boyfriend. Hadnt played state level footy before. Anyone could have picked him.
Bruggemann - Big lump from the country. Hadnt played state level footy before. Anyone could have picked him.
Haren - Played 1 SANFL game in the last two years. Not wanted by other SANFL clubs.
Hawkins - 18yo. Hadnt played state level footy before.
Krakouer - Hadnt played anywhere for 2 years. Anyone could have picked him.
Sharrad - Played 10 SANFL games in 3 years prior to this year. Not wanted by other SANFL clubs.
R Young - 18yo who'd played 4 SANFL games prior to this year. Not wanted by other SANFL clubs.

Slattery - Our leadership player. Been ordinary at best.
Summerton - Our captain.

Its hardly a who's who of the SANFL.

 

[cmndstab]

So you don't think Ports reserves model is helping them develop players ?

I'd say both models are achieving that goal.

 

[Malibu#27]

I'd say both models are achieving that goal.

I agree certainly for our side. I can't comment as freely on your as I simply don't take as much of an interest other than looking at scores.

As Macca said above, our models have not been the key reason for the differing results.

I'd be interested in knowing next year if the models are in fact 100% the same ... I never got the impression Port was going to a model of borrowing from other SANFL clubs. I certainly like the model letting us list players from country leagues... its another career pathway, and as Macca points out better than I ever could, many of our top ups were players who had not played state league for the past few years.

 

[jo172]

Slattery - Our leadership player. Been ordinary at best.
Summerton - Our captain.

Its hardly a who's who of the SANFL.

I agree with your premise to an extent. Was absolute bullshit you were allowed Summerton and Slattery though.

 

[cmndstab]

I agree certainly for our side. I can't comment as freely on your as I simply don't take as much of an interest other than looking at scores.

The Crows even commented before Cameron's debut last week that they wouldn't have felt comfortable playing him if he hadn't already been exposed to our structure and running patterns in our reserves side. We finally have our talls playing where they would be in the AFL side, instead of Johnston in defence, McKernan as a permanent ruck, etc. We're achieving our goals on that front at least.

 

[Macca19]

I agree with your premise to an extent. Was absolute bullshit you were allowed Summerton and Slattery though.

I agree. We should have only been allowed one.

 

[craig crowing]

The Crows even commented before Cameron's debut last week that they wouldn't have felt comfortable playing him if he hadn't already been exposed to our structure and running patterns in our reserves side. We finally have our talls playing where they would be in the AFL side, instead of Johnston in defence, McKernan as a permanent ruck, etc. We're achieving our goals on that front at least.

Whilst I agree with your argument just have to point out examples with tongue in cheek , in how well they are doing in those roles.

 

[brucetiki]

I agree with your premise to an extent. Was absolute bullshit you were allowed Summerton and Slattery though.

Don't worry - Slattery have himself a 5 week holiday last week

 

[Magma]

having seen both reserves teams, there's two key differences for me

1) port's afl listed players are much, much better. most of them would be playing for bottom sides. they're bigger, stronger and fitter than all the other sanfl sides, as they should be. their facilities are just so much better. they're professionals, other sanfl teams aren't. centrals, westies, eagles players head off to their jobs on the monday, most of the port players head off to recovery. adelaide's players are nowhere near the talent levels of port's. draft concessions and poor trading/drafting obviously responsible for that.

2) gameplan. port's gameplan is the exact same as their afl one. high intensity, confidence in possession and their skill levels. they know once they get the ball, players spread everywhere. other teams still have to have 3 guys around the ball to ensure they have possession, and then there's no one forward. i had no idea what the crows' gameplan was a couple of weeks back. it seemed to be some chippy possession based game, but they were fumbly, continually turned it over and were slow.

 

[RePete]

having seen both reserves teams, there's two key differences for me

1) port's afl listed players are much, much better. most of them would be playing for bottom sides. they're bigger, stronger and fitter than all the other sanfl sides, as they should be. their facilities are just so much better. they're professionals, other sanfl teams aren't. centrals, westies, eagles players head off to their jobs on the monday, most of the port players head off to recovery. adelaide's players are nowhere near the talent levels of port's. draft concessions and poor trading/drafting obviously responsible for that.

2) gameplan. port's gameplan is the exact same as their afl one. high intensity, confidence in possession and their skill levels. they know once they get the ball, players spread everywhere. other teams still have to have 3 guys around the ball to ensure they have possession, and then there's no one forward. i had no idea what the crows' gameplan was a couple of weeks back. it seemed to be some chippy possession based game, but they were fumbly, continually turned it over and were slow.

We are a couple of talented youngsters short but really injuries have a trickling effect down to our reserves. As Lynch, VB, Hendo, Crouch come back it will push our depth players back into the SANFL side, hopefully resulting in a stronger side come the later part of the season. I'm reserving my judgement of both teams until we actually have a decent array of cattle on the field.

 

[craig crowing]

having seen both reserves teams, there's two key differences for me

1) port's afl listed players are much, much better. most of them would be playing for bottom sides. they're bigger, stronger and fitter than all the other sanfl sides, as they should be. their facilities are just so much better. they're professionals, other sanfl teams aren't. centrals, westies, eagles players head off to their jobs on the monday, most of the port players head off to recovery. adelaide's players are nowhere near the talent levels of port's. draft concessions and poor trading/drafting obviously responsible for that.

2) gameplan. port's gameplan is the exact same as their afl one. high intensity, confidence in possession and their skill levels. they know once they get the ball, players spread everywhere. other teams still have to have 3 guys around the ball to ensure they have possession, and then there's no one forward. i had no idea what the crows' gameplan was a couple of weeks back. it seemed to be some chippy possession based game, but they were fumbly, continually turned it over and were slow.

Great post as I am also not only concerned about lack of talent in SANFL team but in 2 games I saw their game plan if not awful then the team does not know how to play it , with more intent of getting into spaces or going for tackle than attacking the ball or creating positive attacks.
Yes a lack of talent occurred due to all your points in 1 and we kept players should not have kept.
Porps - L Thompson - McKernan -- Johnston.- Graham. How ordinary have they been.
Plus kids we selected as rookies have not become players we expected apart from Charlie and play like 1 st year rookies, and low selections over last 2 years
Atkins -- Siggins and Knight have shown why they were low draft picks and offered very little .
Looks like Port picked up a lot better extra players that nobody else required .

 

[SimonH]

Edit: This was in answer to the question, 'Who stood Newton?'

Siggins, Juice was far far too strong.

Highlights ('The Recovery Session') on the SANFL website indicate that Juice took marks/kicked goals opposed to all of Thompson, Siggins, Shaw and Battersby at various points. So the misery was shared around.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Our top up players have been made to look better than they really are because our fringe AFL guys have all been flying and we've had a minimal injury list. If you look statistically there wouldnt be much difference between the stats our top ups and your top ups have been getting. The SANFL and its clubs had the right to veto any of our top up players - like they did with Marlon Motlop. Of the top up players that have played for us this year:

Biemans - Boaks sisters boyfriend. Hadnt played state level footy before. Anyone could have picked him.
Bruggemann - Big lump from the country. Hadnt played state level footy before. Anyone could have picked him.
Haren - Played 1 SANFL game in the last two years. Not wanted by other SANFL clubs.
Hawkins - 18yo. Hadnt played state level footy before.
Krakouer - Hadnt played anywhere for 2 years. Anyone could have picked him.
Sharrad - Played 10 SANFL games in 3 years prior to this year. Not wanted by other SANFL clubs.
R Young - 18yo who'd played 4 SANFL games prior to this year. Not wanted by other SANFL clubs.

Slattery - Our leadership player. Been ordinary at best.
Summerton - Our captain.

Its hardly a who's who of the SANFL.

Great post Macca although it won't stop the moaning I'm sure

The Crows reserves will pick up & string some good wins together in the second half of the year i reckon let's see if that triggers the same articles & overreaction in the media

 

[SimonH]

We are a couple of talented youngsters short but really injuries have a trickling effect down to our reserves. As Lynch, VB, Hendo, Crouch come back it will push our depth players back into the SANFL side, hopefully resulting in a stronger side come the later part of the season. I'm reserving my judgement of both teams until we actually have a decent array of cattle on the field.

The bad news is that 17 AFL-listed players playing for your SANFL side (plus Callinan making 18), which is what you fielded last weekend, is above-average in terms of net AFL-listed players available to a 2nds side. (Not that I could be arsed actually calculating the averages of AFL-listed players playing for the various reserves/affiliated sides in state leagues, but based on casual observations over a few years, I'd say that pretty confidently.) You could make the case that it's more likely to get worse than better from here, in terms of raw numbers available. It is true, however, that when guaranteed first-choice players (e.g. van Berlo) recover from injury, they should improve the state league side by more (you automatically get a guy who last week was considered good enough for AFL selection) than if a guy who's not in the club's best 22 becomes fit again.

Nonetheless, I'd say that 'players playing a more switched-on game plan as a team' (85 more possessions for 11 fewer inside 50s v Norwood was a savage indictment) is the ticket, rather than 'expect to get better as the injured come back'. Hard to address the talent problem (if it is a problem), except by the obvious and brutal method at the end of the year.