Scape Goat The Cam Guthrie Echo Chamber

[Cataholic]

Criticising the Guth touches nerves.

BTW you don't need stats to prove his disposal efficiency is bottom 2 or 3 in the team.

It's obvious to anyone with half a clue.

My question was well intentioned and, I thought, a fair and reasonable one.

I certainly didn't anticipate the response.

Anyhow, it's done now. But I'd still like an explanation on how the efficiency of a disposal is determined - do you know?

 

[Tony Barber]

My question was well intentioned and, I thought, a fair and reasonable one.

I certainly didn't anticipate the response.

Anyhow, it's done now. But I'd still like an explanation on how the efficiency of a disposal is determined - do you know?

Stats glossary: Every stat explained

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[Cataholic]

Stats glossary: Every stat explained

Brush up on your statistical knowledge with our glossary

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Thanks TB.

I have seen that before, but can't see where it explains how 'efficiency' is determined, other than if a disposal 'benefits a team'.

 

[Tony Barber]

Thanks TB.

I have seen that before, but can't see where it explains how 'efficiency' is determined, other than if a disposal 'benefits a team'.

It clearly states it.
Handball hits target.
Kick over 40, kick under 40 etc.

 

[Tony Barber]

It's an iffy stat.
I've seen perfect disposal where the team mate stuffed up and made it an ineffective disposal by the book.

It's a guide in my opinion.
There should be a 'game impact' stat.

 

[Cataholic]

It clearly states it.
Handball hits target.
Kick over 40, kick under 40 etc.

So a disposal is deemed 'efficient' simply by being made?

That it's a hospital hand pass, or immediately turned over because the recipient has his opponent on top of him is irrelevant?

Ok. I don't have much faith in that stat then.

 

[catempire]

There should be a 'game impact' stat.

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"Players accrue or lose points every time they are involved in a passage of play. The score awarded to them each time they are in the play is determined by a complex algorithm formulated and refined over a number of years by Champion Data. Players accrue or lose points depending on whether they have a positive or negative impact on a passage of play."

 

[Tony Barber]

So a disposal is deemed 'efficient' simply by being made?

That it's a hospital hand pass, or immediately turned over because the recipient has his opponent on top of him is irrelevant?

Ok. I don't have much faith in that stat then.

Go watch the entire 2007 season.
We won the flag via hospital passes. I'm not joking.

The prior opportunity rule has now hurt that option though.

 

[OddYears]

Well there you go Guthrie fans. Everything the Guthrie ‘haters’ mentioned leading up to the game on full display. Clearly the worst midfielder on the list. Spent considerable time on R. Gray. The BEST opposition mid on the night. Had 1 clearance that was a hack kick off the ground to no one. Going into the 4th with 7 disposals and 11metres gained. You read that correctly, 11! 5 sideways or backwards kicks from 7 touches. Gotta admit I was glad he bombed it long in the forth to get his metres gained up but he kicked it straight to them for a turnover. 5 late touches in junk time. Seriously lol

 

[Cataholic]

Well there you go Guthrie fans. Everything the Guthrie ‘haters’ mentioned leading up to the game on full display. Clearly the worst midfielder on the list. Spent considerable time on R. Gray. The BEST opposition mid on the night. Had 1 clearance that was a hack kick off the ground to no one. Going into the 4th with 7 disposals and 11metres gained. You read that correctly, 11! 5 sideways or backwards kicks from 7 touches. Gotta admit I was glad he bombed it long in the forth to get his metres gained up but he kicked it straight to them for a turnover. 5 late touches in junk time. Seriously lol

What was his DE?

 

[OddYears]

What was his DE?

Don’t mention DE around these parts hahaha

 

[OddYears]

With all the talk of late that his team mates love playing with him was interesting viewing watching how many of his teammates don’t honour his lead and/or burn him. Particularly in the first 2 quarters.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Well there you go Guthrie fans. Everything the Guthrie ‘haters’ mentioned leading up to the game on full display. Clearly the worst midfielder on the list. Spent considerable time on R. Gray. The BEST opposition mid on the night. Had 1 clearance that was a hack kick off the ground to no one. Going into the 4th with 7 disposals and 11metres gained. You read that correctly, 11! 5 sideways or backwards kicks from 7 touches. Gotta admit I was glad he bombed it long in the forth to get his metres gained up but he kicked it straight to them for a turnover. 5 late touches in junk time. Seriously lol

5 late touches in junk time, behind the ball, in defense.

I can't think of a worse 150 game+ AFL / VFL player who's put on the GFC jumper. If not in the league.

 

[CatFan79]

Another pathetic display.

#guthlolintheguts spent most of the game pointing his fingers around, trying to instruct others as if he has a clue how to play at this level.

Must be time to get our mate back in the leadership team surely.

If nothing else Guthrie's performance is a good source of comic relief when the team is playing like sh!t.

 

[you pick one]

Well there you go Guthrie fans. Everything the Guthrie ‘haters’ mentioned leading up to the game on full display. Clearly the worst midfielder on the list. Spent considerable time on R. Gray. The BEST opposition mid on the night. Had 1 clearance that was a hack kick off the ground to no one. Going into the 4th with 7 disposals and 11metres gained. You read that correctly, 11! 5 sideways or backwards kicks from 7 touches. Gotta admit I was glad he bombed it long in the forth to get his metres gained up but he kicked it straight to them for a turnover. 5 late touches in junk time. Seriously lol

5 late touches in junk time, behind the ball, in defense.

I can't think of a worse 150 game+ AFL / VFL player who's put on the GFC jumper. If not in the league.

Another pathetic display.

#guthlolintheguts spent most of the game pointing his fingers around, trying to instruct others as if he has a clue how to play at this level.

Must be time to get our mate back in the leadership team surely.

If nothing else Guthrie's performance is a good source of comic relief when the team is playing like sh!t.

There are 3 people who watched him closely.Scott was right about one thing he's playing his own game out there,trouble is it's not helping the side over all.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

An embarrassment to the jumper.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

There are 3 people who watched him closely.Scott was right about one thing he's playing his own game out there,trouble is it's not helping the side over all.

I've watched him closely for two or three years. He tries to avoid contact and only sticks tackles if his opponent is standing next to him.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I've watched him closely for two or three years. He tries to avoid contact and only sticks tackles if his opponent is standing next to him.

He does. 90% of his tackles are hugs where it's so congested that's all thats needed to cause a ball up.
If he was on Robbie too that is not good. Said in the other thread that's the most space he's had all year.
If he was trying to go head to head he was overating his own abilities quite a bit.

 

[you pick one]

He does. 90% of his tackles are hugs where it's so congested that's all thats needed to cause a ball up.
If he was on Robbie too that is not good. Said in the other thread that's the most space he's had all year.
If he was trying to go head to head he was overating his own abilities quite a bit.

Made me smile,how true.

 

[Down at K Park]

The tackles i saw him make were all from behind at bounces when his opponent gets first use, and he wraps them up. Always plays behind, never in front. Is there any danger of him actually being first to the ball or what?

 

[you pick one]

The tackles i saw him make were all from behind at bounces when his opponent gets first use, and he wraps them up. Always plays behind, never in front. Is there any danger of him actually being first to the ball or what?

Short answer no, long answer noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Often toe pokes off the ground because he's too afraid to pick up the ball.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The key protagonists in here all wishing and praying he's dropped.
The rest of us sitting back amused at such folly, at least you've all been civilised though.

Only 1 scumbag so far has wished injury.

 

[Cronin]

IMO he should be playing the Matt De Boer role as a pure tagger.

He can win the ball if it's there but we need someone who can do a shutdown role in and the middle and also have the ability to play in defence if his man goes forward ie. Dustin Martin.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Often toe pokes off the ground because he's too afraid to pick up the ball.

I've noticed this has crept into his game now too, yes. He's never liked putting himself in a position to be at physical risk, for a midfielder this hurts any side. Putting your hands down means putting your head down.

If he wins a clearance, it because it's popped up in front of him. NEVER hunts the ball. If he tackles it's because he's (almost always) trailing his opponent, who just took possession. These are the non-physically demanding tackles, the easy ones. This is what his stats are made up of. When do you see him hit the body hard, tackling an opponent at pace? Never.

In a game like last night where our opponent was on top for almost all of it, I doubt anyone is shocked at how much influence Guthrie didn't have. Playing him in the middle is arrogance. He's not an AFL lever midfielder, period. He's being hidden / carried now, as he always has when playing midfield. What we saw last night was finals like defensive intent for almost 4 quarters. It's rare to see, but Port did it. Guthrie is a 150 player, a senior. He is as bad as he's ever been, he's just looked better while the side has been 'up'. People can choose to ignore if they will.

People defending Guthrie on last nights performance or in general don't value a Premiership as much as they think they do. They're emotional towards players (individuals) and take it to heart when a player's worth is questioned.