The Clayton Oliver Statistical Analysis Thread

[Crusty Demon]

No one is up in arms. The kid has done himself no favours; his response to Damien Martyn wasn't called for. It was one of those "better to say nothing and let people think you're an idiot than reply and remove all doubt" moments.

You are joking right??

His character got attacked by a flog who has represented (talented but arguably very flaky) Australia at the highest level of his sport, who's opinion would always carry weight due to the many people who follow him on social media. Oliver has every right to defend himself anyway he felt like. We have just seen Fasolo and Cloke walk away from AFL with depression, partly due to social media scrutiny, and here we have a bully like Martyn whose opinion carries serious weight, bagging a 19 year olds character? Turn it up mate. If I attacked your character and called you a pussy knowing it will most likely get highlighted on tv or radio, are you telling me you wouldn't defend yourself??? Pi$$ off...

 

[bing181]

How does trump have anything to do with any of this? Grasping at straws because you can't seem to come up with a logical counterargument, very trump-like wouldn't you say?

I don't need to come up with a counterargument, logical or not, because there's nothing to argue against. All you have are unsubstantiated assertions that you're getting het up about as if they've been established as fact.

 

[ChookMFC]

You really are deluded.

Wow. Just, wow.

If we are going down that line, Oliver shoving Shuey in the chest prior to that is also assault, by definition.

Yup. Shoving someone in the chest is assault. The players generally agree that things like that will happen while they're on the field though, so it's fine. Elbowing someone in the jaw though...not so much. That's why Oliver said he was shocked by it: because he wasn't expecting it. Shuey wouldn't say he was shocked by Oliver pushing him in the chest though because that is expected contact.

 

[TheNest]

You are joking right??

His character got attacked by a flog who has represented (talented but arguably very flaky) Australia at the highest level of his sport, who's opinion would always carry weight due to the many people who follow him on social media. Oliver has every right to defend himself anyway he felt like. We have just seen Fasolo and Cloke walk away from AFL with depression, partly due to social media scrutiny, and here we have a bully like Martyn whose opinion carries serious weight, bagging a 19 year olds character? Turn it up mate. If I attacked your character and called you a pussy knowing it will most likely get highlighted on tv or radio, are you telling me you wouldn't defend yourself??? Pi$$ off...

I think you're exaggerating.

Martyn posted a generic 'am I watching soccer?' comment. He did not name names, he didn't tag Clayton in the post. So he didn't need to 'defend himself'. If that's what he was doing, why not seek out every single twitter mention and take those people to task as well?

At no stage did he call him a pussy.

Most players would not seek to subject themselves to reading public commentary. Especially those who may have battles with mental illness.

Martyn's tweet wouldn't have got anywhere near this much attention if it weren't for the reply. A reply that didn't do much to garner support for Oliver.

Anyway, Andrew Bogut has since commented too, so I await Oliver's response to that one. Though I dare say he's since been coached on how to react and not react on social media.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Do you even know what poppy is?

*EFA

 

[TheNest]

Yup. Shoving someone in the chest is assault. The players generally agree that things like that will happen while they're on the field though, so it's fine. Elbowing someone in the jaw though...not so much. That's why Oliver said he was shocked by it: because he wasn't expecting it. Shuey wouldn't say he was shocked by Oliver pushing him in the chest though because that is expected contact.

Not as he's trying to walk off the field.

I'd say the majority of players would also agree an incidental minor contact to the chin happens dozens of times a week and does not warrant going to ground.

I'm yet to see anyone bar a Melbourne supporter support Oliver and/or agree with the suspension. I'm inclined to believe that would extend to most AFL players, too.

Heck, even Garry Lyon, the most insufferable commentator on all matters Melbourne, said Oliver should have been fined.

 

[TheNest]

*EFA

 

[ep2018]

Oliver is going to get boooooooooooooed out of subi next time they play us there.

 

[Crusty Demon]

I think you're exaggerating.

Martyn posted a generic 'am I watching soccer?' comment. He did not name names, he didn't tag Clayton in the post. So he didn't need to 'defend himself'. If that's what he was doing, why not seek out every single twitter mention and take those people to task as well?

At no stage did he call him a pussy.

Most players would not seek to subject themselves to reading public commentary. Especially those who may have battles with mental illness.

Martyn's tweet wouldn't have got anywhere near this much attention if it weren't for the reply. A reply that didn't do much to garner support for Oliver.

Anyway, Andrew Bogut has since commented too, so I await Oliver's response to that one. Though I dare say he's since been coached on how to react and not react on social media.

Wrong.

It is fact that social media did have some weight in Fasolo's depression.

And are you seriously telling me because Martyn didn't reference Oliver's name, that he wasn't referring to that incident? Turn it up! Everyone has a right to defend their actions. Yes, even AFL players!! There should be more of it tbh. Regardless of what you or I or Damien Martyn thinks of the incident, Oliver has every right to reply.

And Martyn is an ex Australian cricketer. You're a flog if you honestly believe he didn't think his post wouldnt get coverage! Why else do these celebrities past or present have Twitter accounts? Because they want their opinions to be seen. It makes them still feel relevant. Martyn opened himself up for criticism just as much as Oliver did by over reacting.

 

[ChookMFC]

Not as he's trying to walk off the field.

I'd say the majority of players would also agree an incidental minor contact to the chin happens dozens of times a week and does not warrant going to ground.

I'm yet to see anyone bar a Melbourne supporter support Oliver and/or agree with the suspension. I'm inclined to believe that would extend to most AFL players, too.

Heck, even Garry Lyon, the most insufferable commentator on all matters Melbourne, said Oliver should have been fined.

If you're holding Garry Lyon up as someone who doesn't criticise Melbourne, you obviously have no idea about how the Garry Lyon-Melbourne Footy Club relationship works.

It's like this: he pots us, we go "Well he was a champion for our club, let's let him appoint our next coach". Several failures later, he pots us again and we repeat the cycle.

And as for everyone else not supporting Oliver and disagreeing with the suspension, I refer you back to my call of "Tall poppy syndrome". This kid is statistically one of the best young players of all time, and people are reverting to tall poppy stuff to cut him down. He shouldn't have dropped and wouldn't have if he'd expected the contact. He didn't expect it and shouldn't have to because the game wasn't even happening at that point, and that's why he did drop.

1 week is the right penalty.

 

[Rockford]

You are joking right??

His character got attacked by a flog who has represented (talented but arguably very flaky) Australia at the highest level of his sport, who's opinion would always carry weight due to the many people who follow him on social media. Oliver has every right to defend himself anyway he felt like. We have just seen Fasolo and Cloke walk away from AFL with depression, partly due to social media scrutiny, and here we have a bully like Martyn whose opinion carries serious weight, bagging a 19 year olds character? Turn it up mate. If I attacked your character and called you a pussy knowing it will most likely get highlighted on tv or radio, are you telling me you wouldn't defend yourself??? Pi$$ off...

I wouldn't have dived. And if I had, I'd have copped it and said that's not what I represent on the field and it won't happen again. Instead of his "sort of" explanation where he "sort of" got clipped and it "sort of" rocked him and he "sort of" fell down... he didn't "sort of" fall down, he went down like he'd been shot. Even Garry Lyon thinks he dived. The aftermath wasn't handled well and his responding to Martyn and going looking for a YouTube clip of footage from before he was born of Martyn making an error (under more pressure than Oliver would've ever experienced) was petulant and smacked of someone throwing a tantrum.

All Martyn questioned is whether or not he was watching soccer as he felt (like so many people who aren't Demons' supporters feel) that Oliver went down a little too easily and after a significant delay. If I'd done that and you (in Martyn's position) highlighted it in the same way then it would be as childish for me (as it was for Oliver) to go hunting for something from your past in some sort of juvenile one-upmanship. If he felt the need to respond at all he should've addressed the actual issue, namely, his reaction to minimal contact. What we saw instead was a 19 year old footballer who has achieved nothing lambasting a champion who's represented Australia successfully time and time again. Couple that with his dive, subsequent "explanation" of the event and his drink driving and it suggests the kid has tickets on himself and a bit of an attitude problem.

 

[bing181]

Couple that with his dive, subsequent "explanation" of the event and his drink driving and it suggests the kid has tickets on himself and a bit of an attitude problem.

Drawing a whole heap of conclusions based on a) stuff you're assuming and b) stuff you know nothing about.

Laughable.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Exactly. Has a player ever been suspended for another player taking a clear dive? I can't recall anything so weak as piss happening in the past. Is it, dare I say it, unprecedented?

It has happened in the past when Carlton legend/scum bag John Nicholls took a dive in a semi final from a Neville Crowe phantom punch, he was suspended and missed out on playing in a premiership.

 

[matey]

Out of town and just saw the incident for the first time. Very soft Oliver no movement or shake of the head on impact. Did it connect at all? Should have been honest and said straight after the game I faked it he would have been much more respected.

Lewis must be thinking wtf and Viney the same!

 

[bing181]

Did it connect at all?

Yes.

Any other questions? If so, maybe you'll find all the answers you need in the MRP and/or medical report. Given that you've been away, perhaps you missed the bit where the other player was suspended for two weeks down to one for intentional "high contact".

 

[markm106]

Oliver is going to get boooooooooooooed out of subi next time they play us there.

Oh noo!! A player is going to get booed in WA. Meh it'll probably only make him play better.

 

[matey]

Yes.

Any other questions? If so, maybe you'll find all the answers you need in the MRP and/or medical report. Given that you've been away, perhaps you missed the bit where the other player was suspended for two weeks down to one for intentional "high contact".

Non at all the footage speaks for itself and don't need anyone telling me anything else no one. Oliver is soft as butter and should consider moving to Hollywood at the end of his AFL career. Hodge, Selwood ...... would be laughing their heads off.

 

[markm106]

A dive gets schofield rubbed out for a week yet viney concussing our captain with a hip to the head leaving him in doubt for next week doesn't even get looked at... Something smells at AFL house..

Don't even bring the Viney one into it. He clearly went for the footy. One thing about Jack Viney is that he plays he ball and if you get in the way you may get hurt.

 

[blured]

And the salt continues to flow

 

[bzparkes]

Don't even bring the Viney one into it. He clearly went for the footy. One thing about Jack Viney is that he plays he ball and if you get in the way you may get hurt.

Head is sacrosant, Viney should've gotten 4 weeks if Schofield initially got 2 For Oliver's bad acting.

 

[kozi]

A few wins and a kid with a good stat line and Dees fans turn into the most arrogant tossers in the league. As many have already pointed out, you'd think the last decade would have taught them some level of humility.

Before the season started the majority here, myself included, were buoyant about their improvement and happy to see them succeed. Fast forward to now and it's the complete opposite.

 

[matey]

Don't even bring the Viney one into it. He clearly went for the footy. One thing about Jack Viney is that he plays he ball and if you get in the way you may get hurt.

.

I like the way Viney goes about his footy although it's a different topic now but given you mentioned it would Viney, Hodge, Selwood, Lewis etc drop to the ground like Oliver did after a tickle on the chin, was it the chin or shoulder can't really tell?

Oliver is either a diver or soft. It's one or the other.

 

[Brutalitops]

And Martyn is an ex Australian cricketer. You're a flog if you honestly believe he didn't think his post wouldnt get coverage! Why else do these celebrities past or present have Twitter accounts? Because they want their opinions to be seen. It makes them still feel relevant. Martyn opened himself up for criticism just as much as Oliver did by over reacting.

Is that why youre posting online? So you can feel relevant?

Why single him out? Is Marto not allowed to have an opinion on a contentious issue because he played cricket and not footy? Its not like hes come from another country and has no idea about the sport. It looked like a thousand other dives in soccer and he drew an astute comparison to Olivers antics.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

.

I like the way Viney goes about his footy although it's a different topic now but given you mentioned it would Viney, Hodge, Selwood, Lewis etc drop to the ground like Oliver did after a tickle on the chin, was it the chin or shoulder can't really tell?

Oliver is either a diver or soft. It's one or the other.

I'd like to see you and Oliver compete for the same ball.

Clearly he shouldnt have exaggerated the contact, I'd like him to not do it - but it's not like he does it every game like other players.

And clearly he was hit.

 

[Crabman]

Are people still sooking about this?