Mega Thread The Father-Son Mega thread - 2019

[Brishawk]

I reckon it is harsh if your father son is one of the very best players in the draft because of that smaller top end discount. If I understand the points involved (and I'm not 100% sure I do), if you win the flag and you have a father son that would go #1 then it is very hard to match anyone who bids for him at #1. The discount means you're bidding with either pick 2 (with a refund) or pick 3 plus points from later picks to match. Its not easy to gather the points if your first pick is 22 (which I think was WC's first rounder last year). You finish top and give up your first, second and third rounder, and you're still nearly 1000 points short of being able to match the #1 pick, even with the discount.

I agree F/S shouldn't be a free hit, and the AFL are trying to balance their equalisation goals, but to align with the romantic spirit of the idea, I reckon a flag winner should be able to match a bid against a father son that is going to go very early, and right now it is pretty much impossible without trading for picks if that scenario arises.

The afl will revise the rules right before a favoured gill team stands to benefit from an easier get.

 

[Dewnior]

I reckon it is harsh if your father son is one of the very best players in the draft... if you win the flag

Yeah, I didn't read after this

 

[tige19]

I just wonder how many have actually seen Finn play.

Handy size without many tricks is how I would rate him.

Without all the hype that has been created I would suggest a pick between 30-40 type.

Some have whipped themselves up into a frenzy on here in the hope we are pinching a superstar.

Normally your posting is pretty good but this is a shocker... seen Finn play 6-7 times this year, at Sandy and Vic M, as far as a mid goes he has all the tools you want.

190cm, Broad and wide shoulders, very good 2 way runner and kicks goals when given the chance, excellent by hand and has break away speed. Probably not an elite kick yet, but at the same age he is a better kick than Worpel.

Think Josh Kennedy/Clayton Oliver... obviously a ways to go to produce like these guys but his 2nd half year development has been similar to Oliver’s when he was finishing juniors.

How many times have you actually watched Finn? And are you watching the same kid?

 

[tige19]

I 100% agree here, but this would piss off thousands of Hawk fans should we do this.

We won’t let him go and risk the possibility of his becoming a 200 game player at an opposition club..... surely

 

[The Chad and I]

I don't understand the conjecture.
Another club has to rate him at least 20% higher than we do for us to miss out.
If they do that, they can have him.

I want the best players at Hawthorn.

 

[Hawkers Hero]

Rowell and Anderson just on SEN....not much new however both boys good mates with Finn and Noah said he was probably his hardest opponent.

Also interesting that Noah's younger brother is a massive Hawk fan and his sister is a Saint.....amazing how the one family can have so many teams.

 

[tige19]

Rowell and Anderson just on SEN....not much new however both boys good mates with Finn and Noah said he was probably his hardest opponent.

Also interesting that Noah's younger brother is a massive Hawk fan and his sister is a Saint.....amazing how the one family can have so many teams.

They sound way to millenial lol

 

[arupist]

Rowell and Anderson just on SEN....not much new however both boys good mates with Finn and Noah said he was probably his hardest opponent.

Also interesting that Noah's younger brother is a massive Hawk fan and his sister is a Saint.....amazing how the one family can have so many teams.

When I was a kid, there were six people in the house supporting five different teams - Geelong, North, Collingwood, Richmond, Hawthorn.

 

[hk89]

Yeah, I didn't read after this

Why? Don't you think it would be sad if a player didn't get a chance to play at the club his father played at just because the team had finished really high up and as a result didn't have the picks to match a bid? The point of father son is to allow a little bit of romanticism to remain in a game that has become rapidly commoditised over the last 30 or so years. The AFL's desire to 'make everything even' should not trump the aims of F/S picks (IMO), and that is pretty much the situation as it stands. A club that finishes top would have to effectively trade out one of its very best players to get the pick required to match a father son that's deemed the best player in the draft. Even a team finishing middle of the ladder would struggle to match.

Personally I think they need to find a position somewhere between 'any third rounder' from the old days, and the current situation. I'd be happy if you were able to outbid any father son with your first selection in the first round (not including traded in picks). That way any team can still get the father son in, but still have to pay a reasonable price. Yes, it can be a windfall if your father son is the best in the draft, but nowhere near what it was when Geelong were making out like bandits in this department, and it still makes sure any father/son can always theoretically get to their father's team (the team may still choose not to match, but with that change, it would be a choice rather than a complete inability to match due to their finishing position).

 

[Dewnior]

Why? Don't you think it would be sad if a player didn't get a chance to play at the club his father played at just because the team had finished really high up and as a result didn't have the picks to match a bid? The point of father son is to allow a little bit of romanticism to remain in a game that has become rapidly commoditised over the last 30 or so years. The AFL's desire to 'make everything even' should not trump the aims of F/S picks (IMO), and that is pretty much the situation as it stands. A club that finishes top would have to effectively trade out one of its very best players to get the pick required to match a father son that's deemed the best player in the draft. Even a team finishing middle of the ladder would struggle to match.

Personally I think they need to find a position somewhere between 'any third rounder' from the old days, and the current situation. I'd be happy if you were able to outbid any father son with your first selection in the first round (not including traded in picks). That way any team can still get the father son in, but still have to pay a reasonable price. Yes, it can be a windfall if your father son is the best in the draft, but nowhere near what it was when Geelong were making out like bandits in this department, and it still makes sure any father/son can always theoretically get to their father's team (the team may still choose not to match, but with that change, it would be a choice rather than a complete inability to match due to their finishing position).

I stopped reading after you used the word unfair and winning the flag in the same sentence.

fwiw, I think the whole policy around f/s and academy selections is wrong. Putting aside the position a club finishes on the ladder, there shouldn't be a discount applied to attain a f/s or academy selection. It should simply be the club gets priority access over that player ie, if another club bids on a player with a specific pick, then the club who has priority access gets first right of refusal (like we did with Mozzie). This would then stop clubs like the $tains from rotting the system by harvesting players that were always going to play senior AFL football with / without an academy (eg Blakey). They still benefit from priority access but forced to pay the market value for that player.

 

[hk89]

I stopped reading after you used the word unfair and winning the flag in the same sentence.

Right, so your position is that anything that happens to the team that won the flag is fair because .. well, they've won the flag?

fwiw, I think the whole policy around f/s and academy selections is wrong. Putting aside the position a club finishes on the ladder, there shouldn't be a discount applied to attain a f/s or academy selection. It should simply be the club gets priority access over that player ie, if another club bids on a player with a specific pick, then the club who has priority access gets first right of refusal (like we did with Mozzie). This would then stop clubs like the $tains from rotting the system by harvesting players that were always going to play senior AFL football with / without an academy (eg Blakey). They still benefit from priority access but forced to pay the market value for that player.

Do you mean by first right of refusal, they have the right to match the pick with equivalent undiscounted points? If so, that would just make what I see as the current problem with the system more severe. I.e. that your ability to bring in a father son is very strongly impacted by your final ladder position in the situation where the player is amongst the very best. Say Anderson had played sufficient games to be father/son for us, are you really happy that we'd have to trade out someone like Gunston (and even Gunston by himself might not be enough) to be able to get Noah in as a father son this year? I'm not. IMO, every club should have an equal chance of bringing in a father son. That means making all first round picks equal in terms of their ability to match a bid, right now, your bid matching capability is directly tied to your ladder position, which while great from an equalisation point of view, sucks from a romantic, "its nice to have the kid playing at his father's old club" perspective.

 

[Lawsy]

I think he's saying that if Anderson was a F/S for hawthorn and Melbourne for example bid at pick 3, we'd have to take him at 3. If we had won the flag, we could still have our F/S, just at market rate.

 

[Geelongsuck]

....

 

[hk89]

I think he's saying that if Anderson was a F/S for hawthorn and Melbourne for example bid at pick 3, we'd have to take him at 3. If we had won the flag, we could still have our F/S, just at market rate.

And how would we get him? If market rate is pick 3, how do we supply the equivalent of pick 3 after finishing top when our first pick is likely around 22? Pick 3 isn't actually a disaster, as the point values drop off quickly from #1, but say Noah was bid at pick #1, it would be very very hard for a team finishing top to match that. To put it into context, it would require us trading out a player and getting back only slightly less than what Geelong just got for Kelly to match a #1 bid at market value.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Normally your posting is pretty good but this is a shocker... seen Finn play 6-7 times this year, at Sandy and Vic M, as far as a mid goes he has all the tools you want.

190cm, Broad and wide shoulders, very good 2 way runner and kicks goals when given the chance, excellent by hand and has break away speed. Probably not an elite kick yet, but at the same age he is a better kick than Worpel.

Think Josh Kennedy/Clayton Oliver... obviously a ways to go to produce like these guys but his 2nd half year development has been similar to Oliver’s when he was finishing juniors.

How many times have you actually watched Finn? And are you watching the same kid?

Seen him live only 4 times. Goes ok but not the way we are talking him up.

Reminds me of a Brad Sewell type that will take a while to make it at AFL. I would rate his kicking currently at a 5/10. Scotty his old man was a terrible kick of the footy but managed to make it with persistence so I am sure the kid will be ok long term.

Happy for you to rate him higher. Perhaps we look at things differently.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Seen him live only 4 times. Goes ok but not the way we are talking him up.

Reminds me of a Brad Sewell type that will take a while to make it at AFL. I would rate his kicking currently at a 5/10. Scotty his old man was a terrible kick of the footy but managed to make it with persistence so I am sure the kid will be ok long term.

Happy for you to rate him higher. Perhaps we look at things differently.

Yeh you’ve lost me as well - nothing like Brad Sewell.

Finn has elite speed, Brad was slow. Finn is 187 cm tall, Brad was around 181. Brad was taken in the rookie draft, Finn is rated between 15-25. Brads kicking range was limited - 40 metres was around his max range, Finn can comfortably kick 45m. Finn can go forward and kick goals, Brad couldn’t. Brad was purely an inside mid, Finn can play both inside and outside.

For mine they are almost polar opposite players- other than sharing a big tank. Finn IMO will compliment our current midfield beautifully

 

[Manila_Hawk]

Yeh you’ve lost me as well - nothing like Brad Sewell.

Finn has elite speed, Brad was slow. Finn is 187 cm tall, Brad was around 181. Brad was taken in the rookie draft, Finn is rated between 15-25. Brads kicking range was limited - 40 metres was around his max range, Finn can comfortably kick 45m. Finn can go forward and kick goals, Brad couldn’t. Brad was purely an inside mid, Finn can play both inside and outside.

For mine they are almost polar opposite players- other than sharing a big tank. Finn IMO will compliment our current midfield beautifully

Well.... let's go and F'inn get him !

 

[Lickmesocks]

Yeh you’ve lost me as well - nothing like Brad Sewell.

Finn has elite speed, Brad was slow. Finn is 187 cm tall, Brad was around 181. Brad was taken in the rookie draft, Finn is rated between 15-25. Brads kicking range was limited - 40 metres was around his max range, Finn can comfortably kick 45m. Finn can go forward and kick goals, Brad couldn’t. Brad was purely an inside mid, Finn can play both inside and outside.

For mine they are almost polar opposite players- other than sharing a big tank. Finn IMO will compliment our current midfield beautifully

Yep you are lost alright. Let’s see how it plays out.

 

[Billyc]

Why are people referring to Brad Sewell as if it would be a bad thing if a potential draftee turned out like him? Sewell was a very good player. It is statistically very unlikely he will be a better player than Sewell.

 

[brew]

Sewell > Cogs

 

[mustang]

Yeh you’ve lost me as well - nothing like Brad Sewell.

Finn has elite speed, Brad was slow. Finn is 187 cm tall, Brad was around 181. Brad was taken in the rookie draft, Finn is rated between 15-25. Brads kicking range was limited - 40 metres was around his max range, Finn can comfortably kick 45m. Finn can go forward and kick goals, Brad couldn’t. Brad was purely an inside mid, Finn can play both inside and outside.

For mine they are almost polar opposite players- other than sharing a big tank. Finn IMO will compliment our current midfield beautifully

A lot of people saying his very much like Kennedy from Sydney but sounds a lot quicker and better kick then Kennedy.

 

[Billyc]

A lot of people saying his very much like Kennedy from Sydney but sounds a lot quicker and better kick then Kennedy.

People have to stop with the hyperbole on draftees. If anyone really thought we was going to emulate Kennedy but only quicker and with better foot skills, he’d be going pick 1.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Yep you are lost alright. Let’s see how it plays out.

Ok so please point out how they are similar?? Like I said they both have big tanks but that’s about the only similarity. Glad your not part of the recruiting team...

 

[Lickmesocks]

Ok so please point out how they are similar?? Like I said they both have big tanks but that’s about the only similarity. Glad your not part of the recruiting team...

Will be a slow developer is how I personally identify the similarities between the two. As i said I think he will make it. I thought I had made that point earlier but hopefully this clears it up.

Nothing to do with size or body shape.

 

[Rowie6]

Yeh you’ve lost me as well - nothing like Brad Sewell.

Finn has elite speed, Brad was slow. Finn is 187 cm tall, Brad was around 181. Brad was taken in the rookie draft, Finn is rated between 15-25. Brads kicking range was limited - 40 metres was around his max range, Finn can comfortably kick 45m. Finn can go forward and kick goals, Brad couldn’t. Brad was purely an inside mid, Finn can play both inside and outside.

For mine they are almost polar opposite players- other than sharing a big tank. Finn IMO will compliment our current midfield beautifully

When Brad was younger he was very quick! He tagged Chris Judd and i actually seen him run Juddy down at full pace! I would take Finn if he is as good as Brad!

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