The graveyard thread for endless off topic posturing on persons causing bi-polar responses

[Janus]

That's not a metric. A metric is something quantifiable.

What you're doing is applying your biased opinion from personal experience/observation without any data to support what you're saying and trying to claim the scientific high ground, which is not a lot different from the vaccines = autism lunatics.

It’s a common tactic for people who are arguing from a weak position to try and shift the debate to ad hominem attacks referencing side issues that address none of the points that have been made. Bearing in mind that yes, 21/22 players doing warmup sprints is indeed a metric because it can be expressed as a percentage, which is a form of measurement. So you’re wrong there too.

It’s another common tactic to try and relate the person who you don’t agree with to something crazy in an attempt to discredit their argument by association.

Let me know when you’re ready to address what I’ve said like a grown up.

 

[Lynda Loades]

i,m tradng my camry for a hrv

 

[Duck Farmer]

I know Burgess would have been all over that shit ...

Once Wenger got wind of Burgess's secret HRV lab and his plan to replace Wingard and Polec with clones of Kane Mitchell it was hasta la vista baby!

 

[El_Scorcho]

It’s a common tactic for people who are arguing from a weak position to try and shift the debate to ad hominem attacks referencing side issues that address none of the points that have been made. Bearing in mind that yes, 21/22 players doing warmup sprints is indeed a metric because it can be expressed as a percentage, which is a form of measurement. So you’re wrong there too.

It’s another common tactic to try and relate the person who you don’t agree with to something crazy in an attempt to discredit their argument by association.

Let me know when you’re ready to address what I’ve said like a grown up.

You're being ridiculous.

You've read about a measurable performance indicator. With no data whatsoever relating to that performance indicator, you've used it to argue that our current players are more resilient than some players that we've traded.

You've then written a lot of garbage trying to claim that there is now some scientific basis for your long-held opinion despite offering analysis based on no data.

Come back when you have some data or stop trying to argue from the scientific high ground.

 

[Magus]

You're being ridiculous.

You've read about a measurable performance indicator. With no data whatsoever relating to that performance indicator, you've used it to argue that our current players are more resilient than some players that we've traded.

You've then written a lot of garbage trying to claim that there is now some scientific basis for your long-held opinion despite offering analysis based on no data.

Come back when you have some data or stop trying to argue from the scientific high ground.

You won't win bro.

 

[Janus]

You're being ridiculous.

You've read about a measurable performance indicator. With no data whatsoever relating to that performance indicator, you've used it to argue that our current players are more resilient than some players that we've traded.

You've then written a lot of garbage trying to claim that there is now some scientific basis for your long-held opinion despite offering analysis based on no data.

Come back when you have some data or stop trying to argue from the scientific high ground.

Instead of reading into what I say, please just read exactly what I say.

I’ve never said our players are more resilient than the ones we’ve traded. I said that their desire to improve their standards THIS year (hence the comment about becoming leaner in the preseason) will see them become more resilient in the future, which was, and I quote “something the players we have traded weren’t prepared to do for financial or emotional reasons.”

No one in their right mind would say that our players made good decisions under pressure last year.

 

[1954]

Nah, it was covered when we'd been absolutely rocked by it. Look at the title of the thread. We were going through the full gamut of emotions because it was sprung on us as supporters. It needs to be discussed in the cold light of day now that the emotion is mostly out of it. I'm certainly not going to sit here and listen to people continue to perpetuate some of the absolute bullshit that was posted about the trade or Wingard himself to make themselves feel better.

Nobody has explained to me why Wingard went from a superstar of the league in 2016 and then as we transitioned him into the midfield at some point he stopped training and lost all motivation to improve himself and then according to some here was already agitating for a move interstate.

Nobody has explained to me what we're doing to stop the same thing happening again with other players.

How does the club do better next time?

Agreed, and whilst it appears a large number of supporters are of the same opinion re the coaching, game plan, and the lack of development of numerous players etc, etc, many are happy to bag Wingard, who would walk into the first 18 of any other team in the comp, and will become an absolute weapon again given a game plan that has some method, particularly in the way the ball is brought into the forward 50.

Re `How does the club do better next time? '

Let's hope we don't have to wait for that scenario until the three K's, and the Chad we should have jettisoned are all gone!

 

[Power Girl]

Some people are so afraid of any careful examination of our club that they would rather our club descend into freefall while drinking the koolaid and singing Kumbaya, rather than having an honest look at our decisions and practices and acknowledging any past mistakes in order to improve and move on.

It is quite staggering the hypocrisy of some posters who fall about laughing at the Crows but practice the exact same denial practices about Port here.

I am wondering at what point do these people acknowledge any mistakes by the club. Is it in 20 years when no one remembers their feverent blind faith in decisions that were putrid? Or do they never admit any wrongdoing by the club ever?

I hope these same people aren't parenting in the same manner as they would be raising self entitled, never accountable, weak, inflexible, churlish brats.

Denial is the greatest obstacle to improvement.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Instead of reading into what I say, please just read exactly what I say.

I’ve never said our players are more resilient than the ones we’ve traded. I said that their desire to improve their standards THIS year (hence the comment about becoming leaner in the preseason) will see them become more resilient in the future, which was, and I quote “something the players we have traded weren’t prepared to do for financial or emotional reasons.”

No one in their right mind would say that our players made good decisions under pressure last year.

You've made a general post about a measurable indicator of resilience, and at the end you've taken a shot at Polec and Wingard, telling us we should keep this metric in mind when assessing that we've traded them. You've then stated that they display poor resilience.

When queried, you've then said you don't care about them because they play for other teams and don't want to engage in any debate about how HRV might impact them.

You haven't mentioned the current players on our list and how their resilience is lacking and might be improved by improving HRV, you've specifically targeted Polec and Wingard.

It's almost like you just wanted to do a vaguely intelligent sounding hit and run attack on Polec and Wingard instead of doing any meaningful analysis in relation to our current players.

 

[Elite Crow]

You've made a general post about a measurable indicator of resilience, and at the end you've taken a shot at Polec and Wingard, telling us we should keep this metric in mind when assessing that we've traded them. You've then stated that they display poor resilience.

When queried, you've then said you don't care about them because they play for other teams and don't want to engage in any debate about how HRV might impact them.

You haven't mentioned the current players on our list and how their resilience is lacking and might be improved by improving HRV, you've specifically targeted Polec and Wingard.

It's almost like you just wanted to do a vaguely intelligent sounding hit and run attack on Polec and Wingard instead of doing any meaningful analysis in relation to our current players.

This has been an interesting read, I’m curious as to how Janus knows Polec and Wingard weren’t prepared to lift their standards, assuming they had to. The fact they left for other reasons is irrelevant as to what they would have done if they had stayed.

 

[Jonts]

 

[Janus]

This has been an interesting read, I’m curious as to how Janus knows Polec and Wingard weren’t prepared to lift their standards, assuming they had to. The fact they left for other reasons is irrelevant as to what they would have done if they had stayed.

Polec has an issue with his navicular that means he only trains once a week. He’ll never be able to reach an elite level and has to maintain an elite preparation just to keep the level he is at now.

Wingard was probably given one last chance to display the kind of attitude necessary to facilitate change in his exit interview, but his reaction showed that he will never be able to, at least not with Port Adelaide. One of the other psychological factors of people with low HRV is the inability to process, accept and respond positively to new information and stress. That’s why HRV naturally lowers with age.

The fact is, the heart has around 40,000 neural cells - its own nervous system - that send a lot of information to the brain. Under stress, the heart rhythm becomes ragged instead of smooth, breathing becomes laboured, and the brain sends adrenaline to cope with the new stimuli.

It’s the old “If it bleeds, we can kill it.” If it has a heart, it can be stressed, which leads to psychological effects. Improving HRV, generally through HIT, improves the ability for an individual to cope with and respond to changes in routine effectively.

This is probably what Burton was trying to do with Adelaide in their preseason, after it was shown that they weren’t as resilient under pressure as the club would have liked. Unfortunately, you can’t just drop straight into it, which resulted in a whole bunch of injuries.

 

[Elite Crow]

Polec has an issue with his navicular that means he only trains once a week. He’ll never be able to reach an elite level and has to maintain an elite preparation just to keep the level he is at now.

Wingard was probably given one last chance to display the kind of attitude necessary to facilitate change in his exit interview, but his reaction showed that he will never be able to, at least not with Port Adelaide. One of the other psychological factors of people with low HRV is the inability to process, accept and respond positively to new information and stress. That’s why HRV naturally lowers with age.

The fact is, the heart has around 40,000 neural cells - its own nervous system - that send a lot of information to the brain. Under stress, the heart rhythm becomes ragged instead of smooth, breathing becomes laboured, and the brain sends adrenaline to cope with the new stimuli.

It’s the old “If it bleeds, we can kill it.” If it has a heart, it can be stressed, which leads to psychological effects. Improving HRV, generally through HIT, improves the ability for an individual to cope with and respond to changes in routine effectively.

This is probably what Burton was trying to do with Adelaide in their preseason, after it was shown that they weren’t as resilient under pressure as the club would have liked. Unfortunately, you can’t just drop straight into it, which resulted in a whole bunch of injuries.

A serious question, you have a history of developing theories to try and justify performance or predict the future. Do you research until you find something you can use? Doesn’t your track record put you off keeping it up?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

What does our resident cardiologist PJ Power reckon about HRV?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

What does our resident cardiologist PJ Power reckon about HRV?

I have used HRV clinically. It is an interesting measure, though hard to get consistent results and draw conclusions.

There is more research coming out about it all the time and I think it can be useful.

Drawing conclusions about it when there is no data and many many variables that effect HRV and the various symptoms of stress etc Janus is talking about isn't recommended.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Janus]

A serious question, you have a history of developing theories to try and justify performance or predict the future. Do you research until you find something you can use? Doesn’t your track record put you off keeping it up?

It might stagger you to realise this, but football would equate to about 5% of my free time. Most of my free time is dedicated to research on alchemy and philosophy. I actually found out about HRV when watching something completely unrelated, and then wondered whether there has been research done to apply it to sport.

This is just a hobby of mine. Just like basketball was a hobby (until I saw a championship) and soccer was a hobby (until I saw a championship).

When Port wins their next flag, and I’m there to see it...it will be time to move on to the next thing. Because competition without struggle is boring. What interests me is the realisation that teams have that cooperation and mutual aid - sacrificing for one another - is the key to success.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I have used HRV clinically. It is an interesting measure, though hard to get consistent results and draw conclusions.

There is more research coming out about it all the time and I think it can be useful.

Drawing conclusions about it when there is no data and many many variables that effect HRV and the various symptoms of stress etc Janus is talking about isn't recommended.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

So where would Big Mig - Miguel Indurain - who had a resting pulse of 28 beats per minute, stand on the HRV scale?? It allowed him take 7 litres of oxygen around his body per minute, compared to 3–4 litres for an ordinary person and 5–6 litres for fellow riders. His cardiac output was 50 litres a minute; a fit amateur cyclist's is about 25 litres. Induráin's lung capacity was 7.8 litres, compared to an average of 6 litres.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

So where would Big Mig - Miguel Indurain - who had a resting pulse of 28 beats per minute, stand on the HRV scale?? It allowed him take 7 litres of oxygen around his body per minute, compared to 3–4 litres for an ordinary person and 5–6 litres for fellow riders. His cardiac output was 50 litres a minute; a fit amateur cyclist's is about 25 litres. Induráin's lung capacity was 7.8 litres, compared to an average of 6 litres.

As a general rule a lower resting heart rate tends to correlate with a higher (good) HRV.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Papa G]

Whilst Janus' quackery knows no bounds, his actual assessment of the club's reasons for getting rid of both Polec and Wingard is fairly accurate from a football sense. The HRV stuff is complete horseshit, it is more to do with good old fashioned identified laziness.

 

[Magus]

When Port wins their next flag, and I’m there to see it...it will be time to move on to the next thing. Because competition without struggle is boring. What interests me is the realisation that teams have that cooperation and mutual aid - sacrificing for one another - is the key to success.

Do you actually think that winning more than one flag is easy? Good to know this whole football caper is just a passing interest for you though.

 

[Freak Dodgeball Accident]

I had HRV once... Gave me itchy balls for 3 weeks!

 

[Donkey Magoo]

It might stagger you to realise this, but football would equate to about 5% of my free time. Most of my free time is dedicated to research on alchemy and philosophy. I actually found out about HRV when watching something completely unrelated, and then wondered whether there has been research done to apply it to sport.

This is just a hobby of mine. Just like basketball was a hobby (until I saw a championship) and soccer was a hobby (until I saw a championship).

When Port wins their next flag, and I’m there to see it...it will be time to move on to the next thing. Because competition without struggle is boring. What interests me is the realisation that teams have that cooperation and mutual aid - sacrificing for one another - is the key to success.

Beautiful. Perfect.

 

[240volt]

I am almost certain nobody at our club has a clue what the f**k HRV is.

I thought it was a limited edition Holden

 

[edgie]

I thought it was a limited edition Holden

So Dixon might have a clue?

Sent from mTalk

 

[Janus]

Here's some more reports to bake your noodle with:

HRV is a marker of self-regulatory strength and activity:

"Experimental research reliably demonstrates that self-regulatory deficits are a consequence of prior self-regulatory effort. However, in naturalistic settings, although people know that they are sometimes vulnerable to saying, eating, or doing the wrong thing, they cannot accurately gauge their capacity to self-regulate at any given time. Because self-regulation and autonomic regulation colocalize in the brain, an autonomic measure, heart rate variability (HRV), could provide an index of self-regulatory strength and activity. During an experimental manipulation of self-regulation (eating carrots or cookies), HRV was elevated during high self-regulatory effort (eat carrots, resist cookies) compared with low self-regulatory effort (eat cookies, resist carrots). The experimental manipulation and higher HRV at baseline independently predicted persistence at a subsequent anagram task. HRV appears to index self-regulatory strength and effort, making it possible to study these phenomena in the field as well as the lab."

https://psychology.as.uky.edu/heart...s-self-regulatory-strength-effort-and-fatigue

Laziness on the training track results in low HRV which results in low self-regulatory effort in games. Which basically means people with low HRV will want to do the easy things first and neglect the hard stuff...like tackling, chasing back, gut running etc.

HRV influences pain threshold and pain intensity:

"Baseline correlations revealed that lower HF-HRV is related to greater inflexibility and more pain interference, but not pain intensity. Moreover, psychological inflexibility significantly mediated the relationship between HF-HRV and pain interference. Finally, regression models indicated that baseline psychological inflexibility is a significant predictor of HF-HRV at follow-up and, separately, that baseline HF-HRV significantly predicted pain intensity at follow-up."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29570943

HRV predicts negative mood symptoms:

"Our findings suggest that parasympathetic HRV parameters, i.e., measures related to rest and recovery, could be predictive of performance, while frequency-domain parameters might be more adequate for evaluating negative mood states. This last finding is consistent with reports that HRV is a predictor of negative mood symptoms in athletes."

http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/ap/v33n3/monografico2.pdf

Low pain threshold, negative mood, and an inability to perform high self-regulatory tasks (things that you have to do, not that you want to do). Sound like anyone that we used to know?

Quack quack, mother****ers