Opinion The Hawkins Thread

[scottydeewah]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Cant believe they will drop him this weekend. He hasnt even been that bad, I am not to sure what all the fuss is about?

 

[JUBJUB]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

dont worry, he is following josh to bali and then to europe....josh's drawstring needs pulling.

If we're lucky one of those nice Qantas baggage handlers will slip a dodgey package in Renegades suitcase.CYA in 15-20 Renegade

 

[kellykellykelly]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Cant believe they will drop him this weekend. He hasnt even been that bad, I am not to sure what all the fuss is about?

I agree, personally think it was a rocket to the young lad. It'd be stupid to deny him a trip to Subiaco. Much needed experience that will hold him in good stead for future trips away.

Hawkins = 2 goals 1 and a solid game, lock it in.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

the lad is doing everything par kicking goals and a few more marks.if he kicked 2 every/most weeks people wouldn't be saying to much bad things about him.the kid needs time it wont be till the middle of next year till we'll see a noticeable change he's only ever done one pre season get of his case

 

[hamG]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

After the last few weeks of form by SJ the next five games we play opposition teams will put stopping him as their #1 priority for their back half. I would think this focus will create opportunities for Mooney and Hawkins to have space in the opposite pocket/flank to where SJ decides to operate - it will be ballsy to let him go 1v1 roaming around our forward line in the form he has.

 

[sarah.13]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

How come no one is baggy Varcoe or for that matter Brynes anymore???
Give the kid a break, he's doing just fine. He contributes every week and only needs to improve his goal kicking to become a very dangerous KPF ,which we have very few of.

 

[scottydeewah]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

How come no one is baggy Varcoe or for that matter Brynes anymore???

Sorry again why should we be?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

It's pretty obvious that I've standardised each player to Tom Hawkins' age, whether it flatters them (in Lloyd's, Franklin's, and Brown's case) or not (in Riewoldt's, Fevola's, and perhaps Pavlich's case)..

What a stupid way to compare players.

To respond to your point, the flaw in your metric is that Franklin stepped up and grabbed the vacancy in Hawthorn's forward line at a much younger age and earlier developmental stage than Hawkins has for Geelong's vacancy..

errr...who did he have to compete with?

By the time Franklin was Hawkins' age, he'd played double the amount of games (56 to 28), finished third for the Coleman Medal, and was learning his craft in the seniors instead of being shunted into the VFL by a bloke like Tim Boyle (Hawthorn's Tom Lonergan equivalent). Not that it was the main point of my original post, but how on earth can you argue that Hawkins has done more to that point in his career than Franklin?.

Franklin was gifted games because you had no one else. He was also your main or secondary target up front. You can't compare the two, they are completely different circumstances. Hawkins is our 3rd option target at best. If you watched our games you would see how little ball we direct to him. His forward pressure, workrate and tackling is great, and is what we need. It would be good if he converted when he got his opportunities, but he creates a contest every time.

Of course he has his issues, he likes to try and outbody atm instead of lead, and gets scragged badly. When he does lead, he tends to run under the ball, but as someone pointed out try timing your leads when we are flicking the pill around as much as we do.

Do you reckon blokes like Dalziell and Muston would have 30+ possessions on debut if they were 18 instead of 22?.

??? Anyone can get 30 posessions running around loose against the worst side in the competition.

I tried to write an objective and non-insulting analysis of the player mentioned in the thread title, and did some research so that I could support it with facts, and compare the stats with other well known players from many different clubs. If you want to bend it into a tit for tat between Hawthorn and Geelong, then that's a shame.

Sorry mate, but it's rubbish. Sure you told us where some players were at at the same age, but it's such a worthless comparison that you've wasted your time.

 

[scottydeewah]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

I have stopped caring how one player develops in regards to another, there is no specific way to get anywhere in life and that includes top flight football or to a premiership cup.

Hawkins had a pretty bad day out against the dogs, he just wasnt ready to be the number one tall forward. Most worrying though was his kicking. I am sure the club is working on that though.

Against the Bombers I thought he was pretty good. His timing was okay, he contested well, tackled well, laid bumps and was very team oriented.

I would be pretty upset to see him dropped because I just dont think Lonners is a better player right now. I am an advocate of playing the best available and I still think that even though he isnt kicking the scores, Hawkins is still better up forward than Lonners.

 

[della]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Hawkins does more in his bad games then lonergan does in his good games, Lonergan has no presence, can't take a contested mark and really offers us nothing, i swear if we go into another finals campaign with Lonergan and Blake in the side things may not turn out good, no way either of these 2 deserve a spot in the team, hawkins kicking is a problem but hes attack on the ball, goal assisits etc r more crucial to the team then anything Lonergan has ever done thats 4sure. Lonergan is just not AFL standard and thats a fact.

 

[Go_Blues!]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Gee, some of you guys have become a bit spoilt with development rate of Selwood (if you call being a star from the first game development)!! Genuine quality key tall forwards are about the rarest comodity in football; Brisbane have one; St Kilday have one; Fro have one; Hawthorn might have one; and that is about it. I would have thought that Geelong would be looking for Hawkins to do a few good things in most games this year, but generally to show incremental improvement from the start of the year to the end. If I was a Geelong supporter, I would feel pretty good about the prospects of Hawkins - there are other clubs who are relying on the talents of players with less gifts than Hawkins for their future success.

 

[Premiers2007]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Gee, some of you guys have become a bit spoilt with development rate of Selwood (if you call being a star from the first game development)!! Genuine quality key tall forwards are about the rarest comodity in football; Brisbane have one; St Kilday have one; Fro have one; Hawthorn might have one; and that is about it. I would have thought that Geelong would be looking for Hawkins to do a few good things in most games this year, but generally to show incremental improvement from the start of the year to the end. If I was a Geelong supporter, I would feel pretty good about the prospects of Hawkins - there are other clubs who are relying on the talents of players with less gifts than Hawkins for their future success.

Agree, we just need to keep playing Hawkins.

Have a look at Jonathan Browns stats for his third year. It was nothing spectacular. (although he had a good second year)

Year Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts FreesFor FreesAg. Brownlow
2002 - 19 - 143 -- 87 ----- 230 ----- 97 ---14 - 14 ----- 20 ---- 8 ----- 19 ----- 30
2001 - 25 - 217 - 130 ----- 347 ---- 157 -- 38 -- 22 ----- 31 ----17 ----- 27 ---- 40 ----- 5
2000 - 13 -- 82 -- 41 ----- 123 ----- 47 --- 5 --- 2 ----- 11 --- 22 ----- 11 ----- 11

Compare this to Hawkins third year;

Year Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts FreesFor FreesAg. Brownlow
2009 - 9 -- 55 ---- 59 -----114 ----- 51 -- 12 --- 7 ----- 22 ---- 4 ----- 7 ------ 6
2008 - 10 - 71 --- 48 -----119 ------ 51 -- 13 --- 5 ----- 15 ---- 3 ----- 8 ------ 11 ------- 2
2007 - 9 -- 52 ----25 ----- 77 ------ 33 -- 12 ---10 ------ 9 ---- 0 ----- 4 ------ 7




We just need to keep playing him and I think we will develop into a good player for us. We cant jump on him for a couple of bad games, he is still only 20 years old.

 

[scottydeewah]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Again though I dont think we need to compare him to JB, Buddy, Plugger, etc. I think we sure measure his improvement against his own output, as well as what the team requires from him.

 

[Premiers2007]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Again though I dont think we need to compare him to JB, Buddy, Plugger, etc. I think we sure measure his improvement against his own output, as well as what the team requires from him.

I wasnt saying he is the next Jonathon Brown, just trying to make a point that these big guys take time. I have heard some rubbish comments from Opposition supporters (and some Geelong) saying he is useless. People forget that;
1. He is only 20
2. He has had a foot injury over the pre-season which hampered his fitness.

 

[Selwood07]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Give him time - he is showing a bit more grunt now - adds credence to the gossip last year and early this season, that he was not taken seriously by opposition sides - and that is no longer the case. He will, no doubt, make more mistakes but we have to play him. VFL is a waste of time - too many who are dropped back play well below their ability and our gain is zero.

 

[The rabbi]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

I'm happy with Hawk's progress to date. Shows maturity and skill beyond his experience, lacks some confidence at top level, needs to sort out the kciking for goal, but demands that opposition coaches play a good defender on him.

I'll second that!

 

[ashs35]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

So after tonight's performance (or lack thereof) - where to now for the Tomahawk? The forward line is still our biggest worry, IMHO....thoughts?

Our forward line is our biggest worry ?
We're the number 1 attacking team in the competition you doosh!

And as for Tom Hawkins, he's 20... you shouldn't be expecting anything from him this early in his career.

 

[Renegade]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

F#%k off and go back to watching NBA you flog... our team is functioning fine, every1 is playing a role!!!

Struck a nerve did i princess?

Hilarious how 'oooh Hawkins doesn't get the ball delivered properly' crap is coming up. So Moondog, Stevie J, Vegas and crew get it delivered pefectly but when Tommahack leads the midfielders just lob a 'whatever' kick and hope he does something amazing?
Watch him against West Coast... in the stunning event he takes a mark, watch him wheel around and try and deliver a deft little chip to one of our other forwards... then watch the comical result.
This guy makes Kent Kingsley look like a hall of famer.

 

[SmothOperRaider]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Wow, what a tool. Go support Richmond - you're obviously not a real Geelong fan if you truly believe that drivel you posted above.

 

[Renegade]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Wow, what a tool. Go support Richmond - you're obviously not a real Geelong fan if you truly believe that drivel you posted above.

Yes because 'real' fans should make excuses for under performing players right? Sounds like you'd be the better fit for Richmond champ.

 

[SmothOperRaider]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Tigers fans tend to eat their young before giving them a decent chance to mature. Call for them to be dropped after a bad game or two, scream for them to be back when things go wrong with the senior team, eventually wonder why their team is full of blokes like Jay Schutlz.

Sounds like a perfect fit for your ridiculous statements about a twenty year old KPP whose stats compare with the likes of Franklin & Brown at the same stage of their respective careers. I think you may just be jealous of Hawk because he's probably the only guy on our team who could put more Angelo's Pizza away than you.

 

[Renegade]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Tigers fans tend to eat their young before giving them a decent chance to mature. Call for them to be dropped after a bad game or two, scream for them to be back when things go wrong with the senior team, eventually wonder why their team is full of blokes like Jay Schutlz.

Sounds like a perfect fit for your ridiculous statements about a twenty year old KPP whose stats compare with the likes of Franklin & Brown at the same stage of their respective careers. I think you may just be jealous of Hawk because he's probably the only guy on our team who could put more Angelo's Pizza away than you.

You know you're struggling when you throw a half assed attempt at an insult at the end.
It's an opinion, why be so defensive about it? I couldn't care less about his stats in comparison to two champions of the game at a similar age. What does that suggest? He's going to kick a century in a few years? Play in 3 flags?

 

[scottydeewah]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Do you actually think Lonners is a better option though Renegade? He had a season and a bit in the side and didnt exactly light the world on fire. Not only that but in big games, i.e. last years finals series he was bloody terrible (really bad in the GF).

So again we come down to bagging a player when there is not much of an alternative. We could put Lonners in but his best is only marginally better than what we are getting from Hawkins now. I would like to see us persist with Hawkins a bit longer.

 

[krisholio14]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

I'd like to see him holding onto his marks a little more, but everything else is going along quite OK at this point.

People forget that unlike the Jonathan Browns of this world, who had played senior footy against men prior to coming into the league, Tommy had only played against high school kids. Didn't even play much Under 18's.

It was always going to take him time to come on, and while he's yet to tear a game apart this year, he's been making solid contributions.

 

[Claude Balls]

Re: What now for Hawkins?

Struck a nerve did i princess?

Hilarious how 'oooh Hawkins doesn't get the ball delivered properly' crap is coming up. So Moondog, Stevie J, Vegas and crew get it delivered pefectly but when Tommahack leads the midfielders just lob a 'whatever' kick and hope he does something amazing?
Watch him against West Coast... in the stunning event he takes a mark, watch him wheel around and try and deliver a deft little chip to one of our other forwards... then watch the comical result.
This guy makes Kent Kingsley look like a hall of famer.

Anyone with half a brain can see that Hawkins at full forward offers far more to the team than Lonergan, even if he's kicking barely 1.5 goals a game. Having a brain also helps one to understand that there are various reasons why Hawkins is not kicking 4 goals a game, or taking 6 contested marks inside the forward 50. Having a brain helps with a lot of things.