The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Bald Headed Flog]

He literally endorsed Trump the day before the election.

He very, very clearly was supporting Trump, and has been for months. The formal endorsement (after soft-endorsing him for months) came the day before, but that was a formality.

 

[Pugz89]

He very, very clearly was supporting Trump, and has been for months. The formal endorsement (after soft-endorsing him for months) came the day before, but that was a formality.

If you say so, but if she can't handle a long form chat with someone you say opposes her, then how the hell is she going to be US president? 60 million eyeballs on her is worth the risk i'd have thought.

 

[Bald Headed Flog]

If you say so, but if she can't handle a long form chat with someone you say opposes her, then how the hell is she going to be US president? 60 million eyeballs on her is worth the risk i'd have thought.

Addressed that in another comment. Only 16% of voters who listen to JRE (which is only a portion of that hypothetical 60 million given his international reach) are undecided. It's not 60 million potential voters, so nowhere near the potential benefit as it may seem.

Given how comfortably Trump won, I really don't think her going on JRE would have had any meaningful impact. She would still have gotten flogged

 

[King Harold]

Greeting all , these are my new mates ( all now Bulldog supporters)
Good news , they have never heard of Trump !
See ya all in about 5 Years

 

[Pugz89]

Addressed that in another comment. Only 16% of voters who listen to JRE (which is only a portion of that hypothetical 60 million given his international reach) are undecided. It's not 60 million potential voters, so nowhere near the potential benefit as it may seem.

Given how comfortably Trump won, I really don't think her going on JRE would have had any meaningful impact. She would still have gotten flogged

16% of 30 million (lets say half of all listeners are Americans who can vote) is still 4.8 million votes she had access to.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Something I find very interesting. Trump isn't more popular now, than he was at the previous election. At this point in time, he actually has around two million votes less than last time.

If someone said, Trump would have two million less votes this election. You would have thought more confidently that the Democrats would have gotten up. But here is the thing, they themselves got a massive near 14 million less votes, at this point in time, compared to the previous election.

I have always said, Democrats have always had more voters in general these days, whether they win or lose these days, actually comes down to turn out from their own base.

In fact, for all the talk of record registrations, and record lines at the voting locations etc. Around 15-16 million people less voted yesterday. Which makes it all more interesting. Why did those 15 million people not vote in the most hotly and important election in many years? And for all the registered voters, and so called record this and that, where did all those votes go? It seems political pollsters massive over estimated, or exaggerated the turn out. Perhaps Covid played a part as well last time, with more people likely off work and free to vote etc.

 

[Royale]

If you know Joe Rogan, he supported Bernie Sanders in 2016.

But to clarify why Kamala didn't go on Rogan..

Harris's team reached out to Rogan when they found out Trump was going to be on. But she didn't want to spend the time to make the trip to his podcast studio.

 

[Pugz89]

Something I find very interesting. Trump isn't more popular now, than he was at the previous election. At this point in time, he actually has around two million votes less than last time.

If someone said, Trump would have two million less votes this election. You would have thought more confidently that the Democrats would have gotten up. But here is the thing, they themselves got a massive near 14 million less votes, at this point in time, compared to the previous election.

I have always said, Democrats have always had more voters in general these days, whether they win or lose these days, actually comes down to turn out from their own base.

In fact, for all the talk of record registrations, and record lines at the voting locations etc. Around 15-16 million people less voted yesterday. Which makes it all more interesting. Why did those 15 million people not vote in the most hotly and important election in many years? And for all the registered voters, and so called record this and that, where did all those votes go? It seems political pollsters massive over estimated, or exaggerated the turn out. Perhaps Covid played a part as well with more people likely off work and free to vote etc.

2020 was a complete outlier for voting. In 2012, Obama won with 65M, in 2016 Trump won with 62M (Clinton had 65M), 2020 Biden won with 81M (Trump 74M), and 2024 Trump won with what is looking like around 72M (Harris has around 68M). So DNC votes have been 65M, 65M, 81M and 68M, yet somehow Biden polled 81 million? (Nothing suss...)

Mail in voting in 2020 was the big spike, and it was an option again in 2024, but I think it would be interesting to assess why it was down.

Were DNC voters disenfranchised by the candidate flip just a few months out from the polls, despite Biden winning the Democratic Primary?

Were they just politically disengaged from this cycle?

Have both sides experienced a drop in voters, but the GOP decrease was covered by some swing voters who voted DNC in 2020?

 

[wayniac]

My posts have been sparing in this thread and will continue to be so

Just think anyone who has been found guilty of rape in a court of law (and been accused by many other women) really should be exempt from public office through the court of public decency.

How future generations make sense of such a man being elected as the President of the United States (amongst his many other faults) is hard to imagine.

Mind boggling that's where they're at.

Genuinely sad times

Bill Clinton says hello. Precedent set and JFK was no saint. Democrats 2 Trump 1 and there's Edward Kennedy, long term Democrat senator who got away with culpable homicide. So the genuinely sad times started before you were born. Going back to FDR, he had Lucy Mercer Rutherfurd as a long time mistress. Eleanor Roosevelt got back at him by taking her own lover.

Boggle all you like, keep your newly discovered prudery, nothings going to change.

I never knew FDR was a cripple until I visited the Roosevelt mansion on the Hudson, there was his wheelchair behind his desk. It was small enough for audiences not to see. Despite his flaws, he was a truly great man and he saved the UK from annihilation. His biography brought a tear to my eyes.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Winston Churchill forged a bond that surmounted what seemed an unsurmountable enemy and saved the world. In his eulogy to the president, the British prime minister said, "In FDR there died the greatest American friend we have ever known.”

 

[Next Waiting]

The Americans more readily embrace the illusory American Dream than they do the notion of social equality.

Given the choice between a job and the opportunity to be one of the haves rather than the have nots they'll willingly sacrifice social cohesion.

The Divided States of America. If I'm alright Jack I dgaf what happens to you.

That's the reality it seems to me. But, it is what is. So when they annex Cuba and blockade Venezuela and NATO becomes just TO, I won't be surprised. Not a great outlook if you live in a Baltic state or Ukraine but history is littered with this sort of thing. History tells you that people are often not very nice and totally self interested.

We just continue to devolve to the mean. People are expendable, power (if you have it) less so.

If you're a transactional person, as it seems likely the president elect is, then Ukraine and the Baltic States for Cuba and Venezuela seems like a reasonable progression.

Funding for any resistance in Ukraine can be vetoed at leisure, the price of which is Divided States energy and geographical security. Europe can fend for itself and whatever sufferings the people of Ukraine and the Baltics endure is not really our problem. Sad but what can ya do.

And then China. Maybe they can have Taiwan but we'll get our tech industries out first thank you. But stay the heck away from resource rich Australia. We really are the lucky country.

 

[yebach]

The Americans more readily embrace the illusory American Dream than they do the notion of social equality.

Given the choice between a job and the opportunity to be one of the haves rather than the have nots they'll willingly sacrifice social cohesion.

The Divided States of America. If I'm alright Jack I dgaf what happens to you.

That's the reality it seems to me. But, it is what is. So when they annex Cuba and blockade Venezuela and NATO becomes just TO, I won't be surprised. Not a great outlook if you live in a Baltic state or Ukraine but history is littered with this sort of thing. History tells you that people are often not very nice and totally self interested.

We just continue to devolve to the mean. People are expendable, power (if you have it) less so.

If you're a transactional person, as it seems likely the president elect is, then Ukraine and the Baltic States for Cuba and Venezuela seems like a reasonable progression.

Funding for any resistance in Ukraine can be vetoed at leisure, the price of which is Divided States energy and geographical security. Europe can fend for itself and whatever sufferings the people of Ukraine and the Baltics endure is not really our problem. Sad but what can ya do.

And then China. Maybe they can have Taiwan but we'll get our tech industries out first thank you. But stay the heck away from resource rich Australia. We really are the lucky country.

That's a pretty optimistic outlook.

You forgot to throw in world war 3 and total annihilation of all life on the planet.

Lets all take a deep breath and let the dust settle before we start planning for the end of the world.

I've said it before. Trump said a lot of s**t last time. And for the most part it was business as usual for the rest of the world. It's always been a puppet show.

 

[LittleG]

Biden removed a lot of restrictions on the Southern border that Trump had put in place. There was then a surge in illegal immigrants crossing the border. This rate reached 250,000 per month…. This cost the budget an additional $450B per year. Most residents resent the government for taxation, so they saw that as a massive waste.

This issue was more important than abortion for a huge number of US citizens. Many new young voters voted conservative, while many people expected them to vote Democrat and got it wrong.

 

[Werewolf]

Joe Rogan actively promoted and endorsed Donald Trump. And requested the interview to be held in the last few days leading up to the election. And wouldn’t travel to Kamala.

I don’t think dedicating such significant time and resources to be interviewed by a vocal supporter of your opponent so late in the game was a good idea at all. I’m not surprised the interview didn’t happen

I'm a bit surprised Rogan didn't endorse Chase Oliver. Obviously gets hardly any votes but their ideologies line up almost exactly:

Chase Oliver - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[jaxie1]

 

[Norm De Guerre]

2020 was a complete outlier for voting. In 2012, Obama won with 65M, in 2016 Trump won with 62M (Clinton had 65M), 2020 Biden won with 81M (Trump 74M), and 2024 Trump won with what is looking like around 72M (Harris has around 68M). So DNC votes have been 65M, 65M, 81M and 68M, yet somehow Biden polled 81 million? (Nothing suss...)

Mail in voting in 2020 was the big spike, and it was an option again in 2024, but I think it would be interesting to assess why it was down.

Were DNC voters disenfranchised by the candidate flip just a few months out from the polls, despite Biden winning the Democratic Primary?

Were they just politically disengaged from this cycle?

Have both sides experienced a drop in voters, but the GOP decrease was covered by some swing voters who voted DNC in 2020?

I think that you've answered your own questions. The democratic vote returned to the mean and Trump outperformed his 2020 numbers right across the board in nearly every demographic.

In my view it wasn't the candidate it was a populace that wasn't buying a message of economic recovery after years of a post covid inflation and sky rocketing cost of living increases. Somebody had to take the blame and after 4 years of relentless hammering on the subject the voters were getting from Trump and the right wing media landscape. Which of course is fair game.

The democrats are just the latest in a long line of post covid governments that have fallen as people tired of cost of living pressures that are more about corporate gauging than government policy. But the former is a much more nebulous entity to blame. The latter is easy to take an axe to.

In retrospect for all of the hard work that Harris did in pulling back her party from the precipice after Bidens disastrous debate performance. She just didn't do enough to differentiate herself from Biden and an economic plan that people didn't believe was making their life better. She was on a hiding to nothing being made the candidate with just over 100 days before the election. I doubt anybody else would've done any better. The die was cast when Biden elected to contest the election after the midterms when he probably should've called it a day after being the person to stop Trump the first time around. Instead the reality is that he opened the door for a second Trump term, thus destroying his singular legacy achievement.

As an aside, the Trump campaign had a much better understanding of how to reach disaffected voters. They were especially effective at reaching males with their outreach through the bro podcast influencers ecosphere which for the most part is right leaning or at the very least receptive to the amusingly stupid free form riffing show that Trump always puts on when in front of a microphone. Guys like Theo Von who I'd never heard of until Trump appeared on his pod. They identified their audience and relentlessly went after them as a bulwark to the possibility of women coming out in large numbers in support of Harris. I really don't think that the timing of Trump and Vances appearance or the subsequent endorsement of Joe Rogan was an accident. Indeed the entire strategy of going down this unconventional route built up to the biggest Podcaster on the planets endorsement.

The Democrats do not have this advantage and are still stuck trying to reach voters through the traditional means of corporate media.

Going down this route was an astute strategy and goes some way towards explaining why the polls and the result were so out of whack.

Its now up to Trump to deliver on his promises to solve everything that he was able to pin onto the democrats.

 

[Pugz89]

I think that you've answered your own questions. The democratic vote returned to the mean and Trump outperformed his 2020 numbers right across the board in nearly every demographic.

In my view it wasn't the candidate it was a populace that wasn't buying a message of economic recovery after years of a post covid inflation and sky rocketing cost of living increases. Somebody had to take the blame and after 4 years of relentless hammering on the subject the voters were getting from Trump and the right wing media landscape. Which of course is fair game.

The democrats are just the latest in a long line of post covid governments that have fallen as people tired of cost of living pressures that are more about corporate gauging than government policy. But the former is a much more nebulous entity to blame. The latter is easy to take an axe to.

In retrospect for all of the hard work that Harris did in pulling back her party from the precipice after Bidens disastrous debate performance. She just didn't do enough to differentiate herself from Biden and an economic plan that people didn't believe was making their life better. She was on a hiding to nothing being made the candidate with just over 100 days before the election. I doubt anybody else would've done any better. The die was cast when Biden elected to contest the election after the midterms when he probably should've called it a day after being the person to stop Trump the first time around. Instead the reality is that he opened the door for a second Trump term, thus destroying his singular legacy achievement.

As an aside, the Trump campaign had a much better understanding of how to reach disaffected voters. They were especially effective at reaching males with their outreach through the bro podcast influencers ecosphere which for the most part is right leaning or at the very least receptive to the amusingly stupid free form riffing show that Trump always puts on when in front of a microphone. Guys like Theo Von who I'd never heard of until Trump appeared on his pod. They identified their audience and relentlessly went after them as a bulwark to the possibility of women coming out in large numbers in support of Harris. I really don't think that the timing of Trump and Vances appearance or the subsequent endorsement of Joe Rogan was an accident. Indeed the entire strategy of going down this unconventional route built up to the biggest Podcaster on the planets endorsement.

The Democrats do not have this advantage and are still stuck trying to reach voters through the traditional means of corporate media.

Going down this route was an astute strategy and goes some way towards explaining why the polls and the result were so out of whack.

Its now up to Trump to deliver on his promises to solve everything that he was able to pin onto the democrats.

Fair analysis, and can't really refute anything.

What I will say though is blaming Biden for running again isn't the whole story imo. The DNC surrogates still voted for him in the primary. They had other options, and he absolutely should have been tapped on the shoulder at that point. The fact they waited til he cooked the debate is as much on the Democrat party, as it is on Biden himself.

 

[BrisDog]

Okay, so here is where I land tonight:

1. The US is dead to me. As someone who has been there over 30 times, mostly professionally I don’t think I can do it anymore.
2. Podcasts are not something that I can listen to. Moderate opinion, although interesting, is not predictive of the horrors that have arisen. I am not on social media so podcasts (is that social media?) was my go to when going for a jog. Apart from Sam Harris, they are gone.
3. I picked up my guitar today for the first time in a while and played for an hour or two. It was cathartic - that is here to stay. Look out for Brisdog’s debut.
4. I am meditating again, I have been most of the month. It’s wonderful and worth exploring. It makes utterly inexplicable things occurring, like that mans election bearable and gives the ability to move on and think about something positive. I think that is similar to playing guitar again. It clears the irrelevant thoughts like the world ending in the next 2-3 years for example.
5. I will no longer deeply engage with people who cannot engage with facts and those who have no common knowledge on political/cultural issues they sprout their opinion on threads such as these.

I feel clarity. We are not the US. We are better people with a superior democracy.

 

[Bald Headed Flog]

I'm a bit surprised Rogan didn't endorse Chase Oliver. Obviously gets hardly any votes but their ideologies line up almost exactly:

Chase Oliver - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Honestly I think it's largely because Rogan didn't do it for political reasons - I don't actually think he "supports" Trump in the traditional sense, just promoted him. It's all a grift, he knows it will bring in more viewers if he can align himself with that crowd. Just look at how the type of guests he has on the show changed over the years. He went from interviewing experts in various fields, learning interesting things, to interviewing complete fruitcakes and far-right shitstirrers.

 

[4Seasons]

Quote the abuses against democracy please?

Lol..you blokes would do Johnny Somali proud.

 

[Dogs Rule]

What I can't get my head around and never will is how people in the US saw what happened between 2017 to 2020, January 6, the debunked voter fraud conspiracy and the insane ramblings ever since and thought 'Give that guy the keys, I want four more years'.

America made its bed so now they can lie in it. The racists and bigots, the grifters, the uneducated hicks who see him as some sort of working class hero, the incels, the perpetually aggrieved who blame everyone else for their problems. They think Trump cares about them yet we all know he couldn't give a ****

The most profound statement I heard about the result was 'It was a terrible night for everyone who voted against him and everyone who voted for him, they just don't realise it yet.'

They have four years. The damage will take a lot longer to fix and one day they might learn not to f*** around and guard their democracy and not play stupid games when it comes to fascists.

 

[Pugz89]

Genuine question. If it was someone else with the exact same policies, but someone who wasn't offensive when they talk, wasn't a convicted felon, and was a complete cleanskin socially, would there be this same uproar?
Is it specifically his policies that are people's biggest issue, or is it Trump as a person or a mixture of both?