The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[BEaston]

Also in case you've missed it, the political discourse on the internet (which is mostly twitter/x if we're being honest) is way more full of RWNJs than anyone else these days.

Who in their right mind wants to be subjected to their vile opinions day in, day out.

 

[Royale]

Great talking points

 

[Testekill]

Labor need to learn from the Democrats because Albo is Biden 2.0
(As in needs to step aside early)

Sadly we'll get a more useless corporate puppet

 

[Pugz89]

Also in case you've missed it, the political discourse on the internet (which is mostly twitter/x if we're being honest) is way more full of RWNJs than anyone else these days.

Who in their right mind wants to be subjected to their vile opinions day in, day out.

Reddit seems to have balance. Twitter/X was very much left leaning before Musk bought it out, just for the record. With free speech there and censorship reduced, it seems like it has taken on a different demographic for sure. I wouldn't characterise every conservative as a RWNJ though.

 

[BEaston]

Reddit seems to have balance. Twitter/X was very much left leaning before Musk bought it out, just for the record. With free speech there and censorship reduced, it seems like it has taken on a different demographic for sure. I wouldn't characterise every conservative as a RWNJ though.

Can't say I've spent much time on reddit for political topics. Sounds like they still do some job in cleaning up the disgusting vile spewed by misogynists and racists there?

I don't think the absence of those kind of opinions makes a platform left leaning. Just maybe more enjoyable for the non-radicalised person.

No not every conservative is a RWNJ, but a lot, or even most, of the ones that post incessantly on twitter are by my estimation. It's why people are leaving it in droves.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I mean the general trend across the country was most counties going further to the right.
Whether that be abortion, economy, immigration.

Its difficult row argue otherwise when you had the loudest voice in the country beginning to campaign for the next election before leaving office in 2020. From that point it was a 4 years relentless campaigning centred around a message of dystopian nonsense that positioned him as a demagogue who would fix every systemic issue that has plagued the country since its inception.

I just hope the Democrats are asking the very same questions you are, and to self analyse why they lost a second time to Trump, because if the party doesn't shift its policy positions and messaging, then it'll likely be a similar result in 2028.

I just hope that the message that they take from the result isn't one that they need to move further to the right.

Politics is all about cycles. We've come from one that was predominantly progressive and now we're moving into one that is fascist adjacent. Thats assuming that Trump's word that he has no knowledge of or interest in implementing the Agenda of Project 2025 is his bond.

Oh, wait...

Goodbye democracy. We hardly know you.

There has been so much focus on why Trump has been voted in and why, after what he's done he'd get elected, but there doesn't seem much discussion about why Harris failed to turn out the vote against someone who was a "threat to democracy".

I suspect that the lower than expected turn out of the democratic vote was because there was a sense of inevitability about Trump's return. The American people either didn't fully understand all of the crimes that Trump had committed or just did care.

Because he was the man with all of the easy answers to the systemic problems that the country's economy was facing as it struggled to deal with the consequences of shaking off the Covid crisis. As Ive said previously the Biden/Harris ticket was always likely to carry the can for the cost of living issues that followed along in covids wake. And not the corporations that have used the so called supply chain crunch as an excuse to raise the cost of everything.

Anybody who thinks that the coming administration is going to reign in the corporate interest at the heart of the American political system and thus reduce the cost of living pressures. Or that Elon Musk is along for the ride as their voice. Is seriously deluding themselves.

Starr County in Texas has been Democrat since 1892, with a 97% Latino demographic. That went Republican last week for the first time in 132 years.

Lets see how this community feels when their friends and family are rounded up by ICE and forcefully repatriated to their country of origin by the Trump administration.

Anson County in North Carolina has a 40% black vote and Trump won that as only the second Republican to do it.
These are unprecedented, and it's those kinds of examples that would offer an insight into why a convicted sexual offender will be in the WhiteHouse on January 21.

When you have a candidate who expressly points to migrants coming in and stealing their job.

It feels personal and will have that effect on a community.

It seems many vote for policy over person over there.

Trumps message tapped directly into an American society that has been raised on a steady diet of mistrust of any form of government and social progressive boogyman issues. By a broadcast and social media ecosystem that has a vested interest in amplifying Trumps dystopian message.

It's a message that leaned heavily into another aspect of their society. Xenophobia and a fear of the other usurping the established position that native born (white) Americans have in positions of power. It's why the border is such a potent message to campaign on, even though these are the people who directly benefit from the flood of low-skilled cheap labour that crosses the border. It matters not if these people are processing livestock, picking vegetables, working in the gig economy delivering food are being picked up out front of Home Depot for work as a day labourer mowing their lawn. Cheap easily exploitable labour is as American as apple pie.

For his many faults he has learned a thing or two about how American society works as he has conned his way to the top and the forefront of their minds with his omnipresence. He understands that all he needed to do to get to the top of American politics is to flood the airwaves with a relentless diatribe of nonsense about how bad everything was and how he was the only one who could fix it.

Its why his they're eating the cats and dogs ridiculousness was something that he never walked back. Because it circled back on the two major planks of his campaign. Migration and Government incompetence.

He can be all things to all people. A Demagogue and a Rapist.

Its quite the trick he's pulled off.

 

[Pugz89]

Its difficult row argue otherwise when you had the loudest voice in the country beginning to campaign for the next election before leaving office in 2020. From that point it was a 4 years relentless campaigning centred around a message of dystopian nonsense that positioned him as a demagogue who would fix every systemic issue that has plagued the country since its inception.



I just hope that the message that they take from the result isn't one that they need to move further to the right.

Politics is all about cycles. We've come from one that was predominantly progressive and now we're moving into one that is fascist adjacent. Thats assuming that Trump's word that he has no knowledge of or interest in implementing the Agenda of Project 2025 is his bond.

Oh, wait...

Goodbye democracy. We hardly know you.



I suspect that the lower than expected turn out of the democratic vote was because there was a sense of inevitability about Trump's return. The American people either didn't fully understand all of the crimes that Trump had committed or just did care.

Because he was the man with all of the easy answers to the systemic problems that the country's economy was facing as it struggled to deal with the consequences of shaking off the Covid crisis. As Ive said previously the Biden/Harris ticket was always likely to carry the can for the cost of living issues that followed along in covids wake. And not the corporations that have used the so called supply chain crunch as an excuse to raise the cost of everything.

Anybody who thinks that the coming administration is going to reign in the corporate interest at the heart of the American political system and thus reduce the cost of living pressures. Or that Elon Musk is along for the ride as their voice. Is seriously deluding themselves.




Lets see how this community feels when their friends and family are rounded up by ICE and forcefully repatriated to their country of origin by the Trump administration.



When you have a candidate who expressly points to migrants coming in and stealing their job.

It feels personal and will have that effect on a community.




Trumps message tapped directly into an American society that has been raised on a steady diet of mistrust of any form of government and social progressive boogyman issues. By a broadcast and social media ecosystem that has a vested interest in amplifying Trumps dystopian message.

It's a message that leaned heavily into another aspect of their society. Xenophobia and a fear of the other usurping the established position that native born (white) Americans have in positions of power. It's why the border is such a potent message to campaign on, even though these are the people who directly benefit from the flood of low-skilled cheap labour that crosses the border. It matters not if these people are processing livestock, picking vegetables, working in the gig economy delivering food are being picked up out front of Home Depot for work as a day labourer mowing their lawn. Cheap easily exploitable labour is as American as apple pie.

For his many faults he has learned a thing or two about how American society works as he has conned his way to the top and the forefront of their minds with his omnipresence. He understands that all he needed to do to get to the top of American politics is to flood the airwaves with a relentless diatribe of nonsense about how bad everything was and how he was the only one who could fix it.

Its why his they're eating the cats and dogs ridiculousness was something that he never walked back. Because it circled back on the two major planks of his campaign. Migration and Government incompetence.

He can be all things to all people. A Demagogue and a Rapist.

Its quite the trick he's pulled off.

How do you break up quotes like that into single points? I quote things and it just all spits into a big block.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

How do you break up quotes like that into single points? I quote things and it just all spits into a big block.

Just place the cursor where you want to begin.

Press enter and it'll make a space.

Then have at it.

 

[Pugz89]

Its difficult row argue otherwise when you had the loudest voice in the country beginning to campaign for the next election before leaving office in 2020. From that point it was a 4 years relentless campaigning centred around a message of dystopian nonsense that positioned him as a demagogue who would fix every systemic issue that has plagued the country since its inception.

It can go both ways though. Nobody pays attention for 4 years and if they did, they'd be burnt out by the time election day rolls down and I'd expect it'd have the opposite effect.

I just hope that the message that they take from the result isn't one that they need to move further to the right.

Politics is all about cycles. We've come from one that was predominantly progressive and now we're moving into one that is fascist adjacent. Thats assuming that Trump's word that he has no knowledge of or interest in implementing the Agenda of Project 2025 is his bond.

100% it swings back and forth. That is the usual thing, and when it swings bigger one way, it also generally results in a bigger swing back the other way when it does. Many people i've spoken to think the progressives have gone further left over the past 20-30 years, than the right has gone right, therefore the centre 30 years ago is no longer the centre now. I am barely into my 30s now, so I can't comment on it, but it is an interesting proposition, which could skew the political scale.

I suspect that the lower than expected turn out of the democratic vote was because there was a sense of inevitability about Trump's return. The American people either didn't fully understand all of the crimes that Trump had committed or just did care.

Because he was the man with all of the easy answers to the systemic problems that the country's economy was facing as it struggled to deal with the consequences of shaking off the Covid crisis. As Ive said previously the Biden/Harris ticket was always likely to carry the can for the cost of living issues that followed along in covids wake. And not the corporations that have used the so called supply chain crunch as an excuse to raise the cost of everything.

Anybody who thinks that the coming administration is going to reign in the corporate interest at the heart of the American political system and thus reduce the cost of living pressures. Or that Elon Musk is along for the ride as their voice. Is seriously deluding themselves.

It is only inevitable if people don't vote for Harris. If enough people turned out, he would lose. Evidenced in 2020 with Biden, who was arguably a worse candidate then than Harris was this time. More than 10 million less votes for Harris, so of course with that kind of turnout it would be inevitable. The Democrat voters only have themselves to blame in that regard.

 

[glenashley]

For all those who suddenly find themselves 'free marketeers' after Nov 4, you do realise tariffs exist in most nations?

Australia has them and the EU would have to be the biggest basket case user of them in history.

For the record, I'm a free marketeer from way back. I just find it amusing how it's come up in this thread.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Can't say I've spent much time on reddit for political topics. Sounds like they still do some job in cleaning up the disgusting vile spewed by misogynists and racists there?

I don't think the absence of those kind of opinions makes a platform left leaning. Just maybe more enjoyable for the non-radicalised person.

No not every conservative is a RWNJ, but a lot, or even most, of the ones that post incessantly on twitter are by my estimation. It's why people are leaving it in droves.

I mean the general trend across the country was most counties going further to the right.
Whether that be abortion, economy, immigration.

I just hope the Democrats are asking the very same questions you are, and to self analyse why they lost a second time to Trump, because if the party doesn't shift its policy positions and messaging, then it'll likely be a similar result in 2028.

There has been so much focus on why Trump has been voted in and why, after what he's done he'd get elected, but there doesn't seem much discussion about why Harris failed to turn out the vote against someone who was a "threat to democracy".

Starr County in Texas has been Democrat since 1892, with a 97% Latino demographic. That went Republican last week for the first time in 132 years.
Anson County in North Carolina has a 40% black vote and Trump won that as only the second Republican to do it.
These are unprecedented, and it's those kinds of examples that would offer an insight into why a convicted sexual offender will be in the WhiteHouse on January 21.

It seems many vote for policy over person over there.

I haven’t been on Twitter since Musk took it over, and that isn’t going to change.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I find it amusing that the NeoLiberal Democrats are referred to as “leftist”, I realise that being older than some of you staunch Trump supporters, you probably have no experience of living in a leftist State, certainly Australia embraced NeoLiberalisim in the 80s and 90s. But I can assure you that deregulation, free trade and fiscal austerity is not leftist policies.

 

[ManOfClay]

So trump’s big plan to end what he calls indoctrination in universities appears to be, indoctrination but trump approved indoctrination?

"We will then accept applications for new accreditors who will impose real standards on colleges once again."

"These standards will include defending the American tradition and Western civilization, protecting free speech, and eliminating wasteful administrative positions that drive up costs”

 

[Norm De Guerre]

It can go both ways though. Nobody pays attention for 4 years and if they did, they'd be burnt out by the time election day rolls down and I'd expect it'd have the opposite effect.

Sure, but when the message is as simple and dystopian as the one Trump has hammered for 4 years. They didnt need to follow the exhausting 4 year long campaign that the Trump embarked upon as he gaslit an entire country that what he did after the last election was all part of a grand conspiracy against him. All they needed was for Trump to tell them that he'd fix the economic issues that he'd spent the last 4 years making an issue of. They long ago factored in and made allowances for him being a massive arseh*le.

100% it swings back and forth. That is the usual thing, and when it swings bigger one way, it also generally results in a bigger swing back the other way when it does. Many people i've spoken to think the progressives have gone further left over the past 20-30 years, than the right has gone right, therefore the centre 30 years ago is no longer the centre now. I am barely into my 30s now, so I can't comment on it, but it is an interesting proposition, which could skew the political scale.

Because thats what the vested interest of legacy and social media drum into their heads every day.

But it ignores the reality that just because the LGBTQ or minority segments of society gets to go about their lives somewhat in the open a progressive takeover of society isn't really a thing. Society is still controlled by exactly the same forces that have always existed.

As Ive mentioned previously, the entire culture war ( George Soros, WOKE, DEI , trans or whatever...) debate is one cooked up and spread by the right wing of politics as a means of riling up a section of society that perceives its status as the only gate keepers of public morality to be on the decline. For the most part what progressive changes we've seen have been at the margins and driven by generational change. Like it always has been. All the while the forces of actual change are making life harder for everybody as they data mine and commercialise every aspect of your life.

The pendulum will swing back, especially if Trump overreaches as I expect him to do. However, with the likelihood of a 7-2 Supreme Court majority under his watch the reality is that we are living in a time of an unprecedented upheaval of US society where we are seeing a concentration of political, media and economic power that will not be unwound for generations if at all.

Which is great if you're at the head of the table, where politics is a zero sum game and you happen to be on the winning side.

For everybody else it's a slide further into life of corporate serfdom. Where you will own nothing and everything is a privatised subscription model designed to act as a permanent line directly into your bank account.

But sure progressivism is the root of all evil and is going to lead to the decline and fall of western civilisation.

Speaking of evil. Imagine if George Soros actually had the influence and likely financial gain that the other imbecilic edge lord and conservative darling Elon Musk had over the election. Legacy and social media would've exploded in fits of apoplectic outrage.

It's almost like they aren't on the level with their coverage of events.

Funny 'bout that.

It is only inevitable if people don't vote for Harris. If enough people turned out, he would lose.
Evidenced in 2020 with Biden, who was arguably a worse candidate then than Harris was this time. More than 10 million less votes for Harris, so of course with that kind of turnout it would be inevitable. The Democrat voters only have themselves to blame in that regard.

His 4 years of omnipresence, constant rallies and willingness to poke his nose into the most inane of public discourse did garner a sense of inevitability about his return. Like his turning out of young men by appearing on every bro cast, this was a very deliberate and effective tactic, one that drove down democratic voter enthusiasm in an electorate that doesn't have compulsory voting . One that wasn't buying the reality that under their direction the economy was approaching pre-covid levels. Something that Trump will for the second time be the beneficiary of.

In the end they ran a longer, louder, populist and ultimately better campaign than the democrats with their small target, point at the other guy campaign did. Theres a message for the ALP who are heading down the same small target do nothing strategy that will lead them into political oblivion if they care to look at it.

Such is life.

 

[BrisDog]

Diversity, Equality, Inclusion.

Well I haven’t experienced any of those 3 in the workplace personally, but that is cool. It just sounds like an acronym used by the right in the the US campaign that is over.

Meritocracy is rare in the public and private service. That much is true. Cronyism/Nepotism is rife.
Where would Don Jnr be without his Dad? Dead or in rehab is my guess. Eric? Probably unemployed. Ivanka on the world stage made a fool of herself as well. Thus she has disappeared. She acknowledges cronyism by dearly departing the stage.

 

[BrisDog]

Sure, but when the message is as simple and dystopian as the one Trump has hammered for 4 years. They didnt need to follow the exhausting 4 year long campaign that the Trump embarked upon as he gaslit an entire country that what he did after the last election was all part of a grand conspiracy against him. All they needed was for Trump to tell them that he'd fix the economic issues that he'd spent the last 4 years making an issue of. They long ago factored in and made allowances for him being a massive arseh*le.


Because thats what the vested interest of legacy and social media drum into their heads every day.

But it ignores the reality that just because the LGBTQ or minority segments of society gets to go about their lives somewhat in the open a progressive takeover of society isn't really a thing. Society is still controlled by exactly the same forces that have always existed.

As Ive mentioned previously, the entire culture war ( George Soros, WOKE, DEI , trans or whatever...) debate is one cooked up and spread by the right wing of politics as a means of riling up a section of society that perceives its status as the only gate keepers of public morality to be on the decline. For the most part what progressive changes we've seen have been at the margins and driven by generational change. Like it always has been. All the while the forces of actual change are making life harder for everybody as they data mine and commercialise every aspect of your life.

The pendulum will swing back, especially if Trump overreaches as I expect him to do. However, with the likelihood of a 7-2 Supreme Court majority under his watch the reality is that we are living in a time of an unprecedented upheaval of US society where we are seeing a concentration of political, media and economic power that will not be unwound for generations if at all.

Which is great if you're at the head of the table, where politics is a zero sum game and you happen to be on the winning side.

For everybody else it's a slide further into life of corporate serfdom. Where you will own nothing and everything is a privatised subscription model designed to act as a permanent line directly into your bank account.

But sure progressivism is the root of all evil and is going to lead to the decline and fall of western civilisation.

Speaking of evil. Imagine if George Soros actually had the influence and likely financial gain that the other imbecilic edge lord and conservative darling Elon Musk had over the election. Legacy and social media would've exploded in fits of apoplectic outrage.

It's almost like they aren't on the level with their coverage of events.

Funny 'bout that.



His 4 years of omnipresence, constant rallies and willingness to poke his nose into the most inane of public discourse did garner a sense of inevitability about his return. Like his turning out of young men by appearing on every bro cast, this was a very deliberate and effective tactic, one that drove down democratic voter enthusiasm in an electorate that doesn't have compulsory voting . One that wasn't buying the reality that under their direction the economy was approaching pre-covid levels. Something that Trump will for the second time be the beneficiary of.

In the end they ran a longer, louder, populist and ultimately better campaign than the democrats with their small target, point at the other guy campaign did. Theres a message for the ALP who are heading down the same small target do nothing strategy that will lead them into political oblivion if they care to look at it.

Such is life.

Norm, I’m enjoying your responses, well thought-out and accurate analysis, but I have no idea where you get the energy for such thorough responses to this mob.

Charlie Bucket was just described as ‘woke’. FMD.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Norm, I’m enjoying your responses, well thought-out and accurate analysis, but I have no idea where you get the energy for such thorough responses to this mob.

Charlie Bucket was just described as ‘woke’. FMD.

I don't expect to change a single mind or opinion in this thread.

I just find wading through it to be an amusing distraction from doing actual work.

That and I have no interest in discussing the attributes of young boys in the draft thread.

Anyways...On with the freak show of their decent into Idiocracy.

Let me introduce youse to Trumps new Secretary of Defence.

A man in charge of nearly 3 million serving and civilian employees a budget of $916 billion and the capability to turn the entire planet to ashes.

Although a veteran his real qualification seems to be that he is an anti-woke culture warrior, handsome and says nice things about Trump on Fox News.

 

[Next Waiting]

I too have enjoyed Norms substantive contributions.

He has bravely been down and escaped rabbit holes I dare not enter.

Time and inclination have largely consigned my contributions to a vibe.

It's not a good vibe. One hopes for all our sakes that my dystopian vibe is misplaced but I suspect that I'll be wondering/lamenting how they didn't see it coming ...their economic, cultural, political, legal and media enslavement that is....and why they didn't vote, through gritted teeth if necessary, for DEI tolerance etc. At least they'd free (ish).

The last line of their anthem is land of the free. Perhaps it'll be through gritted teeth that they'll be belting that out.

Anyway, I watch with morbid interest.

 

[H Dolphin]

The best national anthems are aspirational and inspirational. None of Harris nor her supporters sing “the Star Spangled Banner” through gritted teeth.

 

[BrisDog]

The best national anthems are aspirational and inspirational. None of Harris nor her supporters sing “the Star Spangled Banner” through gritted teeth.

Terrible versions H Dolphin. Agreed - why would you?

The worst and cringiest I have heard was earlier this year. It made me think the USA has completely lost it’s marbles.

 

[H Dolphin]

Terrible versions H Dolphin. Agreed - why would you?

The worst and cringiest I have heard was earlier this year. It made me think the USA has completely lost it’s marbles.

What's cringy about your version ? USA is the embodiment of aspiration, its ideals are uplifting. It inspired and founded our Constitution. Of course it’s conflicted, that's what liberal democracies are. Like you, love debate and exchange of ideas, hate personal derision and lockdownism.