Analysis The Rebuild Of Essendon And North Melbourne And Their Future Prospects

Which team has the better on-field prospects?

  • Essendon

    Votes: 128 46.4%

  • North Melbourne

    Votes: 148 53.6%
  • Total voters
    276

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Rad Roo said:
Okay, okay, since when does topping up has an age limit? You got those players because your leadership core believe you are one step away from a flag.....

We got in players like Polec because we wanted to quickly return to top 8 through some quick fixes....

Both didn't work out for an understatement.

However, it's sometimes much easier to restart from scratch then picking through the wreckages because what do you do with players who are decent enough but not enough to take it to the next level. Do you cut those players or do you keep playing them? The player exodus in 2020 was also another dark spot. It wouldn't be a bad to completely bottom out to continue getting in a continuous batch of top talent.

The general strategy is that get the bookends set then work on the mid and finally the niche positions can be sorted with Free Agency and pre-season. If the trade department is prudent and does it's job well, position on the ladder doesn't have too much to do with the quality of palyers you bring in because for us, our worst season ever brough us the most talent players we got for decades (corr, stephenson).
Click to expand...

When we brought in Shiel, Smith, Stringer etc. we had a 23 year old all Australian key forward, 2 x recent all Australian key defenders. A young all Australian midfielder (Merrett) and our captain was still playing reasonable football so as you say, our bookends were set.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Rad Roo said:
Okay, okay, since when does topping up has an age limit? You got those players because your leadership core believe you are one step away from a flag.....

We got in players like Polec because we wanted to quickly return to top 8 through some quick fixes....

Both didn't work out for an understatement.

However, it's sometimes much easier to restart from scratch then picking through the wreckages because what do you do with players who are decent enough but not enough to take it to the next level. Do you cut those players or do you keep playing them? The player exodus in 2020 was also another dark spot. It wouldn't be a bad to completely bottom out to continue getting in a continuous batch of top talent.

The general strategy is that get the bookends set then work on the mid and finally the niche positions can be sorted with Free Agency and pre-season. If the trade department is prudent and does it's job well, position on the ladder doesn't have too much to do with the quality of palyers you bring in because for us, our worst season ever brough us the most talent players we got for decades (corr, stephenson).
Click to expand...
Show me one quote where anyone from the club describes any of our recruits as the final piece of the premiership puzzle. I didnt say topping up has an age limit. There is a difference between Geelong taking Higgins at age 32 and North taking Stephenson at age 22 though. You might describe both situations as topping up but Geelong are going for a flag for 1 year, while North will get 8 or 9 years out of Stephenson. Corr is another example of recruiting without that player necessarily having to be the final piece of a premiership. He fills a gap though. Both North and Essendon are rebuilding and nowhere near a flag but that hasnt stopped us recruiting or topping up last trade period.
 

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Yoda_ said:
When we brought in Shiel, Smith, Stringer etc. we had a 23 year old all Australian key forward, 2 x recent all Australian key defenders. A young all Australian midfielder (Merrett) and our captain was still playing reasonable football so as you say, our bookends were set.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Never said it wasn't warranted.......just backfired and as a consequence, a few years wasted and now needing to rebuild. Trust me, it's a rebuild. If you aint winning a flag or in the top 4, you better be rebuilding otherwise it's an excercise in day dreaming. Right now, the teams from 5 to 13 have no chance in hell of getting anywhere near the top 4 teams.

The club culture is the far bigger problem that extends beyond the playing group.

If i may summarize the cultural problems, they are....
  1. huge disconnect bewteen staff and management
  2. fear of speaking out alas be replaced
  3. notoriously difficult to deal with hence not enhancing the club's prospect (largely attributed to Dodo).
At least, dons have got in 3 top 10 picks, bookend fixed but what to do with the dozen players in the 26-29 bracket? Good enough to play for a few more years, not good enough to take the club anywhere.....that is a problem beyond our paygrade.
 
Bjchan13 said:
Show me one quote where anyone from the club describes any of our recruits as the final piece of the premiership puzzle. I didnt say topping up has an age limit. There is a difference between Geelong taking Higgins at age 32 and North taking Stephenson at age 22 though. You might describe both situations as topping up but Geelong are going for a flag for 1 year, while North will get 8 or 9 years out of Stephenson. Corr is another example of recruiting without that player necessarily having to be the final piece of a premiership. He fills a gap though. Both North and Essendon are rebuilding and nowhere near a flag but that hasnt stopped us recruiting or topping up last trade period.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh the fact type nit picker.

Well i give you jake niall https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-essendon-got-back-in-the-hunt-20190427-p51hsi.html

You asked for quote, just read the first paragraph. If the club didn't give out vibes about intention of getting near a flag, this kind of artiles wouldn't be writtten. Then again, going big for 3 'named' is more than plugging holes. You traded out your 1st pick for the first time in a very long time.......

2+2
 
Rad Roo said:
Ahhhh the fact type nit picker.

Well i give you jake niall https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-essendon-got-back-in-the-hunt-20190427-p51hsi.html

You asked for quote, just read the first paragraph. If the club didn't give out vibes about intention of getting near a flag, this kind of artiles wouldn't be writtten. Then again, going big for 3 'named' is more than plugging holes. You traded out your 1st pick for the first time in a very long time.......

2+2
Click to expand...
I read it and its got no one from the club saying anything. Its a Jake Niall opinion piece. I will say again though that yes Essendon were trying to win. At the same time though they specifically recruited players in their early twenties that had most of their careers ahead of them, 5 or 6 years for Shiel. It was well known that we had an age demographic problem with our list after draft penalties on top of losing Hibberd, Melksham, Ryder and Crameri to other clubs. I'll ask you 1 question, can you see the difference in Geelong recruiting Higgins and North recruiting Stephenson?
 
Bjchan13 said:
I read it and its got no one from the club saying anything. Its a Jake Niall opinion piece. I will say again though that yes Essendon were trying to win. At the same time though they specifically recruited players in their early twenties that had most of their careers ahead of them, 5 or 6 years for Shiel. It was well known that we had an age demographic problem with our list after draft penalties on top of losing Hibberd, Melksham, Ryder and Crameri to other clubs. I'll ask you 1 question, can you see the difference in Geelong recruiting Higgins and North recruiting Stephenson?
Click to expand...

U sure you understand how afl clubs work? Essendon is a professional club right? Do you think professional club's employee would let loose? But if you want to play the nit picking game and want a quote in some form....

Traditionally, Essendon had been wedded to the philosophy of Kevin Sheedy and Mark Thompson – evident in Bomber's time with Geelong – that you grow your own players, largely via the draft.....

...So, in 2017, Essendon traded their first pick to Greater Western Sydney for Devon Smith (Geelong unable to afford him), rolled the dice on the talented, trouble-prone Jake Stringer and beat off Carlton to sign Adam Saad from the Suns.

Did you ever learn about reading between lines when you were in school? or you want to play the nitpicking game....?
 
Rad Roo said:
U sure you understand how afl clubs work? Essendon is a professional club right? Do you think professional club's employee would let loose? But if you want to play the nit picking game and want a quote in some form....

Traditionally, Essendon had been wedded to the philosophy of Kevin Sheedy and Mark Thompson – evident in Bomber's time with Geelong – that you grow your own players, largely via the draft.....

...So, in 2017, Essendon traded their first pick to Greater Western Sydney for Devon Smith (Geelong unable to afford him), rolled the dice on the talented, trouble-prone Jake Stringer and beat off Carlton to sign Adam Saad from the Suns.

Did you ever learn about reading between lines when you were in school? or you want to play the nitpicking game....?
Click to expand...
Ill answer your questions if you answer mine
 
Rad Roo said:
U sure you understand how afl clubs work? Essendon is a professional club right? Do you think professional club's employee would let loose? But if you want to play the nit picking game and want a quote in some form....

Traditionally, Essendon had been wedded to the philosophy of Kevin Sheedy and Mark Thompson – evident in Bomber's time with Geelong – that you grow your own players, largely via the draft.....

...So, in 2017, Essendon traded their first pick to Greater Western Sydney for Devon Smith (Geelong unable to afford him), rolled the dice on the talented, trouble-prone Jake Stringer and beat off Carlton to sign Adam Saad from the Suns.

Did you ever learn about reading between lines when you were in school? or you want to play the nitpicking game....?
Click to expand...
I'm reading between your lines and calling a troll that looks like a troll, a troll.
 

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Its really impossible to tell who has better future prospects because both clubs will be relying on players that they've picked up last draft and in next years draft to really take them forward. Both teams had some high picks that have the potential to be very good.

Essendon are in my opinion clearly better right now and have more quality players aged in their prime. I personally would consider North to be a full from the ground up rebuild whereas Essendon is more of a 2 year refresh (assisted by the fact that we got 3 first rounders in the last draft and should be able to get a top 5 pick in 2021). This was pretty much dictated by the respective lists. North had topped up a few times with older guys so it was inevitable that at some stage they had to cull deep.

Of course things can change - but I expect Essendon will be challenging for finals again long before North. But in the long run it only matters whose build turns out the best. There are many perspectives - having a good senior core can support the youngsters and help them develop properly. On the other hand it may cause you to finish higher up the ladder and not get access to the same quality of talent.
 
Way too early to tell. North’s youth have more exposed form, which is partly due to Essendon trading picks away. But picks 7,8,9 could be a great launching pad for the Bombers if they have nailed a couple of them. I think the Bombers were going nowhere, so Daniher and Saad moving on will prove a blessing in disguise. Even if they struggle this year and lose Merrett they will be well compensated.
 
ParapMarkets said:
Way too early to tell. North’s youth have more exposed form, which is partly due to Essendon trading picks away. But picks 7,8,9 could be a great launching pad for the Bombers if they have nailed a couple of them. I think the Bombers were going nowhere, so Daniher and Saad moving on will prove a blessing in disguise. Even if they struggle this year and lose Merrett they will be well compensated.
Click to expand...

owen87 said:
Agree here
Click to expand...

They got maximum compensation for Saad, and a decent pick for Daniher after it looked like they'd get a mid-range pick. Putting aside last years failure to get a couple of firsts they'd be quietly pleased with last years outcome.

Given Cox and Reid wouldn't have lasted until later in the first round they've done pretty well to re-stock.
 
Who will they offer up as trade bait at year's end?

These are the guys who'll be 27 or older before the start of the 2022 season. How deep do they cut? Is there any prospect of trading out one of the better senior players to strengthen their respective draft hands?

Numbers in brackets reflect ages at the start of 2022 season:

Essendon

Cale Hooker (33) - UFA
David Zaharakis (32) - UFA
Michael Hurley (31)
Andrew Phillips (30)
Patrick Ambrose (30) - RFA
Dyson Heppell (29)
Dylan Shiel (28)
Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti (28)
Devon Smith (28)
James Stewart (28)
Jake Stringer (27)
Nick Hind (27)
Martin Gleeson (27) - RFA
Tom Cutler (27)

North Melbourne

Todd Goldstein (33)
Robbie Tarrant (32) - UFA
Aaron Hall (31)
Jack Ziebell (30) - UFA
Ben Cunnington (30)
Tom Campbell (30) - UFA
Shaun Atley (29) - UFA
Jared Polec (29)
Josh Walker (29) - UFA
Dom Tyson (28)
Taylor Garner (28) - RFA
Jed Anderson (28)
Aidan Corr (27)
Luke McDonald (27)
 
Last edited:
Sweet Jesus said:
Who will they offer up as trade bait at year's end?

These are the guys who'll be 27 or older before the start of the 2022 season. How deep do they cut? Is there any prospect of trading out one of the better senior players to strengthen their respective draft hands?

Numbers in brackets reflect ages at the start of 2022 season:

Essendon

Cale Hooker (33) - UFA
David Zaharakis (32) - UFA
Michael Hurley (31)
Andrew Phillips (30)
Patrick Ambrose (30) - RFA
Dyson Heppell (29)
Dylan Shiel (28)
Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti (28)
Devon Smith (28)
James Stewart (28)
Jake Stringer (27)
Nick Hind (27)
Martin Gleeson (27) - RFA
Tom Cutler (27)

North Melbourne

Todd Goldstein (33)
Robbie Tarrant (32) - UFA
Aaron Hall (31)
Jack Ziebell (30) - UFA
Ben Cunnington (30)
Tom Campbell (30) - UFA
Shaun Atley (29) - UFA
Jared Polec (29)
Josh Walker (29) - UFA
Dom Tyson (28)
Taylor Garner (28) - RFA
Jed Anderson (28)
Aidan Corr (27)
Luke McDonald (27)
Click to expand...

Amazing some.of these guys have been playing for so long
 

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Analysis The Rebuild Of Essendon And North Melbourne And Their Future Prospects

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