Analysis Have the Crows botched their rebuild?

[Freomaniac]

Culture at the Crows isn’t right. I am jealous of what the Swans have built. They are a destination club. Our board needs to be spilled. Strange mix of skills/experience.

Our drafting and player development has been really poor. Footy department needs a revamp. Here are some questionable decisions: Rachelle, Thilthorpe, Jones, McAsey, Cook, Pedlar, Milera. All high draft picks with seemingly much better options going for a lesser price. Meantime, look at what the Swans drafted with very average draft hands. They didn’t bottom out and remain ultra competitive.

Renewing coach’s contract this year was not a smart decision. If we end up winning less than 5 games this year, is tenable for Nicks to remain as coach?

you sre jealous on what the swans have built? Why?

Are you not happy with the amount of finals the crows have played between 1993-2017?

Swans have be consistent finals contenders since 1996.

 

[Daka]

Fogarty strikes me as a bloke who would have kicked 600-800 goals in the 70s and 80s and have a HoF worthy career.

Just doesn't have the skillset to translate to modern footy.

Maybe he could have been more successful 70s, 80s but I still think that's a big call.

People said Jack Riewoldt would not make it as a Key Forward when he was drafted. "Not big or strong enough" "too slow".

but he had other attributes that made up for it like footy smarts, forward craft, leading patterns, read the flight of the ball better than pretty much everyone.

I just don't think Fogarty is a key forward, he is big your strong medium 3rd tall.
He is strong but not quick. he is a great kick of the footy but doesn't have much else going for him, don't think he has the smarts of some of the greats.

 

[Consolaçao]

A lot of what’s wrong with the club’s approach to building its list can be summed up by the decision to recruit amateur league footballer Jimmy Rowe in the top 40 of the 2020 draft.
No way he would’ve been drafted if his dad wasn’t who he is.
In so many ways this is not a serious football club.

 

[WillHayward]

Certainly wouldn’t be calling it a botched rebuild, might be a case of one step back to go two steps forward.

They have a fair few pieces in place.

But do they?
What pieces?
Thilthorpe unproven as a fwd.
Backline looks decent. Tick.
Midfield maybe Soligo and Dawson. Not enough.

 

[MarcusP2]

They really seem to lack talent so yes.

We butchered heap of picks but got lucky with the 2015 draft plus Cripps being there and Walsh being pick 1 so with some recruiting we have been able to plug some gaps.

The problem with the Crows is they’re relying on Taylor Walker who doesn’t have much left forward. In the middle they’ve got some really good players like Laird and Dawson but where is that genuine superstar like talent? Dawson on his day is close but they need more.

Think it can still be saved but they’re going to have to be really good with signings and draft picks and somehow find a way to learn to play without Tex.

Another example of shooting in the foot because if we hadn't Tippetted ourselves we probably would've picked Cripps.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Maybe he could have been more successful 70s, 80s but I still think that's a big call.

People said Jack Riewoldt would not make it as a Key Forward when he was drafted. "Not big or strong enough" "too slow".

but he had other attributes that made up for it like footy smarts, forward craft, leading patterns, read the flight of the ball better than pretty much everyone.

I just don't think Fogarty is a key forward, he is big your strong medium 3rd tall.
He is strong but not quick. he is a great kick of the footy but doesn't much else going for him.

I was actually surprised to find that he’s only kicked 5 goals twice and 4 goals on 4 occasions, because there’s always been this talk of him being Walker’s replacement.

He’s kicked 1 goals or less in 49 of his 85 games to date.

 

[Blue1980]

But do they?
What pieces?
Thilthorpe unproven as a fwd.
Backline looks decent. Tick.
Midfield maybe Soligo and Dawson. Not enough.

Rankin, Rochele and I still rate Fogarty

Midfield needs more.

A botched rebuild means you need to begin again, this is more they just need to add more pieces.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Not botched, but still in progress. Way too many draft failures and a complete failure to draft top mid prospects is hurting us. If we need to use Rachele and Rankine in the middle to get drive, then our forward line is far less potent.

Not playing young draftees but instead sticking with more mature plodders week in, week out, is not developing what we have drafted. This selection policy is driving us all nuts!

Most thinking supporters know we are playing about 5-6 every week who are not, and never will be, good AFL standard and certainly not the standard required for finals pressure.

Whilst we are a young list, we have several ageing players still in the 22 who are already cooked or could be quite soon. Tex has been fantastic, not as good this season as his stellar 2023. Tex is still capable of mauling North weight defences but isn't going to save us against the competition heavyweights.

Finals are gone this year and the club must now start getting games into the younger players. Hardwick is doing it at Gold Coast and they'll cop losses this year because of that selection policy but he's developing players for next year onwards. Nicks is still clinging to finals hope unfortunately.

The truest saying about list management is knowing where your list is really at. Crows have over rated our list on the back of a good 2023 but that was done on the back of Tex's great season and beating a host of bottom of the table sides. Chickens have come home to roost this season.

Not botched, still in progress with a lot of work to do.

 

[Elixuh]

If by botched their rebuild you mean installed a coach who has no footy or tactical nous then yes yes they have.

They need some decent pure midfielders and another good tall forward. The rest is ok, well aside from that one defender who always soils himself when the ball comes down there…Dono his name.

What Nicksy has done to Dawson this season is criminal. Playing king crab crouch instead.

 

[Freomaniac]

Maybe he could have been more successful 70s, 80s but I still think that's a big call.

People said Jack Riewoldt would not make it as a Key Forward when he was drafted. "Not big or strong enough" "too slow".

but he had other attributes that made up for it like footy smarts, forward craft, leading patterns, read the flight of the ball better than pretty much everyone.

I just don't think Fogarty is a key forward, he is big your strong medium 3rd tall.
He is strong but not quick. he is a great kick of the footy but doesn't much else going for him.

I dont think fogarty is totally useless.

As most people agree, he is a great kick at the footy, especially at set shots on goal.

Fogarty thrives as a third tall on a forward flank like a Jack Gunston.

I can see him thrive as a 2nd tall as a Floating CHF kicking 40-50 goals a season like Jack Darling. But the Full forward has to be either a quality key forward or a KPF ruck.

If he was from WA, i would love Fogarty at the dockers, massive upgrade to Sam Sturt and I love Sam Sturt.

 

[JimmyBC]

A lot of what’s wrong with the club’s approach to building its list can be summed up by the decision to recruit amateur league footballer Jimmy Rowe in the top 40 of the 2020 draft.
No way he would’ve been drafted if his dad wasn’t who he is.
In so many ways this is not a serious football club.

They were conned by a murmur that Carlton were going to draft Jimmy Rowe which of course was rubbish, another local Beau McCreery was taken a few picks later...

 

[Freomaniac]

They were conned by a murmur that Carlton were going to draft Jimmy Rowe which of course was rubbish, another local Beau McCreery was taken a few picks later...

I could look up certain players the crows could of picked up as mids....

2016 draft, Crows got Jordan Gallucci and Port got Sam Powell pepper.

2018 draft, Crows got Chance Jones Ports pick 12 in Zac Butters.

16 was Ned McHenry, Freo used pick 17 on Sam Sturt and Port used pick 18 on Xavier Duursma.

2019 draft. Crows had pick 6 and used it on Fisher McAsey. Dockers had pick 7 and 8 both were used on Hayden Young and Caleb Serong.

So essentially

Crows midfield could of had Sam Powell Pepper, Zac Butters, Xavier Duursma. then one of hayden young or Caleb Serong (Who plays like robbie gray at port)

 

[WHOME]

Lachie Murphy in part of their leadership group, dude is barely SANFL standard. Rabble.

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Freomaniac]

They lack a soul. They have no soul. They need a father like figure in Ken Hinkley ro restore their pride.

random260 do you agree with this?

I wouldnt mind Ken Hinkley as Coach if he does a similar finals run like at Port from 2013-23.

 

[Freomaniac]

Say what you want about Pyke but he did get them to a GF their list was right at the end of their window imo.
with Betts form was starting to waver but still a good player.

Charlie Cameron seemed a much bigger loss retrospectively, he certainly went to another level at the Lions but still the Crows have had some retention issues with quality players for a while.

I will also say Losing Jake Lever is also a bad loss looking back too.

Saying that, its only worse now because the crows didnt win the 2017 grand final.

Not making finals in 2018 and 2019 hurts too. As they were not a bad team in both of those years. It sucks finishing 9th to 12th though.

 

[Freomaniac]

Nah. 0-4 in a 23 season game with how drastic the seasons eb and flow at present is pretty meanlingless. It is not ideal... But teams these days consistently go thru hot and cold patches given how even the comp is. If you are slightly off regardless of how good you are you will lose.

Sydney will be one of the teams to beat, and look what a mediocre richmond did to them when they were slightly off the boil.

0-4 can quickly turn into 4-4 and middle rung. Or 4-0 can quickly turn into 4-4...

Its a long season of revolving doors

I hated that bloody thread when people say if you are 0-2, your season is done. lol

 

[Freomaniac]

Fogarty just isn't good enough to be a number one. He's not that tall and not that fast. Yes he's strong and has a nice kick. He would dominate country footy but he won't dominate against AFL standard defenders who are usually taller faster and just as strong.

He's a good third banana at AFL level.

Fogarty isnt a spear head. I agree he can be a 3rd tall.

I can see fogarty thrive as a 2nd tall as a floating Centre Half forward.

I can see Tilthorpe play full forward and get Double teamed while Fogarty gets free or gets the 3rd best defender and somehow kicks 3 or 4 goals on a good day.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I hated that bloody thread when people say if you are 0-2, your season is done. lol

Same. With how even the competition is I just don’t think things work that way anymore. It is a game of inches and if you are off slightly you will lose and even in patches… I can see an eventual premier having a 3-4 loss losing streak.

I have absolutely no doubt the Catters will have a bad patch or two, it’s inevitable in the current landscape. Does that mean we should press the emergency red button?? Absolutely no.

On this topic, I think Fremantle is incredibly stiff with some of the results and I can easily see it turning around and going deep into September. You only need to look at how they controlled and should have beaten Carlton as an example of what they can produce.

 

[Daka]

I dont think fogarty is totally useless.

As most people agree, he is a great kick at the footy, especially at set shots on goal.

Fogarty thrives as a third tall on a forward flank like a Jack Gunston.

I can see him thrive as a 2nd tall as a Floating CHF kicking 40-50 goals a season like Jack Darling. But the Full forward has to be either a quality key forward or a KPF ruck.

If he was from WA, i would love Fogarty at the dockers, massive upgrade to Sam Sturt and I love Sam Sturt.

Ofc he isn't useless, that's why i said he is a great kick but he can't be the man up forward once Tex Walker retires. he will struggle badly, Crows need to go out & either draft a key forward not sure if Curtin can play forward was drafted as a defender but I would probably try him as a forward.

 

[WillHayward]

Rankin, Rochele and I still rate Fogarty

Midfield needs more.

A botched rebuild means you need to begin again, this is more they just need to add more pieces.

Rate in what way? Where do you see Fogarty getting to?

He's pretty consistent. 10 disposals and a goal per game.

 

[Foucault1989]

Yes

 

[Foucault1989]

No

 

[Rotayjay]

Lachie Murphy in part of their leadership group, dude is barely SANFL standard. Rabble.

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Drafting, continually selecting and elevating Lachlan Murphy to the leadership group sums up how badly this rebuild has been done. He wouldn't get a game at any other AFL club.

 

[1990crow]

Everything is not lost if they get a new coaching group.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Said this in another thread, but I'd like to see a midfield run by Dawson, consisting of Soligo, Dowling, Berry, Rankine and Rachele for the remainder of the season.

Entirely youth focused. Try something to kick-start the midfield woes before addressing it come trade/draft time.

Soligo and Berry have proven to have a bit of mognrel to their game.
Dowling is a pure accumulator with some height and general footy smarts, and is currently playing above a SANFL level.
Rankine and Rachele are your part timers who add that bit of class and X-factor.

There's some talent and balance here.

Once finals are completely out of the equation I'm not sure what there is to lose.