The Ruck Debate is Over

[Stig O'Hara]

Very, very tall the big Sauce.

He might have the longest arms since Mark Blake's dad.

Nice dukes, and a velvet slipper with that last goal.

Impressed today.

 

[blues4flag]

Very, very tall the big Sauce.

He might have the longest arms since Mark Blake's dad.

Nice dukes, and a velvet slipper with that last goal.

Impressed today.

Uses his height very well and marks the footy at the highest point. Was interesting watching him and Kreuzer practice just that in the warm up. Kreuzer's also taken a few good contested marks the past fortnight.

 

[Claypigeon]

Uses his height very well and marks the footy at the highest point. Was interesting watching him and Kreuzer practice just that in the warm up. Kreuzer's also taken a few good contested marks the past fortnight.

You can see Sauce and Kreuze enjoy working together around the ground. .. I tend to think Jacob has helped lift Kreuzer's form by showing the example in the aerial contest and also taking the weight off by performing well in the ruck. .. No doubt Hampson will get a game if he performs well on his return and Warnock can also improve with more game time. ..

The great thing is that all four are young and all four show the ability to develop. .. Kreuzer is looking the best of them but the others may steal that mantle through out their development. .. The debate may not be over but at this stage it isn't needed as all four continue to develop. ..

 

[marcjudd]

Does anyone know what warnocks contract is
2 or 3 years?
Dont see him as a future star(to slow)

 

[Sin City]

Does anyone know what warnocks contract is
2 or 3 years?
Dont see him as a future star(to slow)

He ran down David Wojcinski

 

[BlueSnake]

Oh goddammit, I could only catch the 3rd and last quarter on the radio and I somehow missed Jacobs kicking a goal...

Someone describe it for me? I don't doubt he can kick, he just needs confidence in that area.

 

[Bluebear]

He ran down David Wojcinski

After giving him 2m headstart, and Wojac had the afterburners on.

The only problem with Robbie ATM is he is too slight in frame and Ottens pushed him under the ball too easily.

Warnock will be one of the leagues best ruckman in about 4 years IMO. When he has the strength that matches the height he will be a very, very good player.

Not sure where Jacobs from leaves Hampson........I suspect he'd want to be learning how to play FF to try and push Setanta out over the next few years.
Maybe he is worth more in trade, though GC's recruiting manager was on the radio late last week talking about the out of contract players and said (FWIW) they are very keen to hold onto their early picks.

 

[Massive Attack]

. .. I tend to think Jacob has helped lift Kreuzer's form by showing the example in the aerial contest and also taking the weight off by performing well in the ruck...

Agreed.

The clunking marks around the ground are great...

The two of them dominated the air in the first half...like John Laws and Alan Jones...or Steve Price and Neil Mitchell...forgive the comparison...

Feel a bit for Warnock, have to say. Didn't he leave Freo to take the first ruck, somewhere, anywhere?

 

[Dennis]

Feel a bit for Warnock, have to say. Didn't he leave Freo to take the first ruck, somewhere, anywhere?

Jarryod Oakleigh Nicholls left to get a game too

You need to be up to it to play.....reputations / potential mean shit

 

[Massive Attack]

Sorry, if you find empathy offensive...

I think Warnock's up to it, but I don't think he's better than Jacobs or Kreuzer so I wonder where that leaves him...on the outer is the obvious answer...but at 206 centimeters it took Harry Madden longer to reach the heights than brother Simon...so I'd say he's a good chance of finding his feet later on...

 

[Jeremias]

Feel a bit for Warnock, have to say. Didn't he leave Freo to take the first ruck, somewhere, anywhere?

No.

He left Freo to come back to his home state of Victoria and nominated Carlton as his choice of clubs.

That in no way means he is an automatic starter as our number 1 ruck.

We now have 4 ruckmen who each bring their own advantages and disadvantages and it is up to their attitudes and work ethic to decide who gets the nod on any given game day.

 

[Blueboys7]

Ha ha.... hilarious! Glad your not on the MC, Jacobs a star for a day.... playing his best NO UPSIDE left in him, give him his 15 mins of fame! HAMPSON a star for 10 years to come! Luckily the MC have a PLAN, unlike yourself... and you know what they say about a man WITHOUT a plan, actually, I am pretty sure you dont!

UPSIDE has nothing to do with age, keep scratching for an answer, like too slow, shit around the ground, cant jump, scared to kick the pill.... wont more?

Please just stop while you're only this far behind. You're just making yourself look stupid.

Jacobs has been great since being recalled, and is improving with every game. He took a number of tough contested marks and has pretty good skills IMO. That shot on goal was very good and he has a good technique.

Can someone improve their athleticism? It seems as though he has improved in this area and is proving to be an asset all over the ground.

To say he has no improvement left in him is just plain wrong, he is still very young. Most ruckman don't come on until at least their mid 20's and generally at their peak by 27/28. Sauce will only get better as our other ruckman will.

 

[Blue and Silver]

It is a dilemna having four available and talented ruckmen on your list. You can't play them all, and even three is a stretch so you have to leave talented players languishing in the twos. Hampson working on becoming a forward is a good choice, if he can add that string to his bow he can justify selection and play part-time ruck. Kreuzer and Jacobs have shown their worth around the ground and could both be reasonably played forward. Warnock just seems to need time to get his frame to the appropriate proportions to dominate.

I would be interested to see if Warnock could be developed as a sport of super-tall defender/ruck. The idea being he rucks at the centre bounces than drops into CHB and uses his mobility and size to dominate marking contests and hand off to runners. Of course he needs to be good at marking to do this. He could also improve his kicking, or at least get enough confidence in it to perform short passes to available team-mates.

TBH I think that it is impossible to play all of them, but that they are probably all worthy of a place. As a result I can see issues holding on to all of them come the trade period with other teams without our talented ruck division go head-hunting

 

[Massive Attack]

We now have 4 ruckmen who each bring their own advantages and disadvantages and it is up to their attitudes and work ethic to decide who gets the nod on any given game day.

No.

It's up to the match committee to decide who gets the nod.

I hope they keep going with a combo of Kreuzer and Jacobs...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Where is Dr Frankenstein when you need him? I want to make two perfect ruckmen from the four we have.

 

[Dennis]

We have 2 perfect ruckmen

Kruezer is fine just as he is as a Dean Cox kinda clone

Jocobs plays the old school ruck role with gusto....the next sandilands

The ruck debate is over

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We have 2 perfect ruckmen

Kruezer is fine just as he is as a Dean Cox kinda clone

Jocobs plays the old school ruck role with gusto....the next sandilands

The ruck debate is over

Please cut the conclusions. It smacks of dismissive arrogance and repeating it over and over just elicits poor responses.

All of our rucks have their deficiencies at this stage of their development.

Are you saying you wouldn't want any of the other three to have Hampson's speed or leap?

What if Hampson and Warnock had Jacob's ability to take a mark?

What if Kreuzer could tap like Jacobs?

What if the other three had Kreuzer's ground level ability?

On a given day against a given opponent, all have attributes to be better than each other. As the one that ticks the most boxes as he has decent supplies of all the elements, Kreuzer gets a pass. He has not developed to the point of being the perfect ruckman yet but looks like he will. The others still have areas where they can be exposed and have to keep working at it.

 

[Dennis]

Please cut the conclusions. It smacks of dismissive arrogance and repeating it over and over just elicits poor responses.

All of our rucks have their deficiencies at this stage of their development.

Are you saying you wouldn't want any of the other three to have Hampson's speed or leap?

What if Hampson and Warnock had Jacob's ability to take a mark?

What if Kreuzer could tap like Jacobs?

What if the other three had Kreuzer's ground level ability?

On a given day against a given opponent, all have attributes to be better than each other. As the one that ticks the most boxes as he has decent supplies of all the elements, Kreuzer gets a pass. He has not developed to the point of being the perfect ruckman yet but looks like he will. The others still have areas where they can be exposed and have to keep working at it.

What if

What if.....

How about we face the reality of today and play with what is real and not with what may be real in the future

If Hampson can step up, play him

As of today, he and Warnock are not worthy of a place ahead of K and Sauce

The ruck debate is over

....although may be reignited with a form increase from those not in the side at some stage in the future

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What if

What if.....

How about we face the reality of today and play with what is real and not with what may be real in the future

If Hampson can step up, play him

As of today, he and Warnock are not worthy of a place ahead of K and Sauce

Not rocket science. If someone has more form than someone else, they deserve to be in the side ahead of them. That does not mean the others do not have attributes that potentially can put them back at front at some point.

The debate can only be over when someone has sustained form over a season or two and have clearly established their superiority. We need more time than that.

You said we have two perfect ruckmen. I point out areas where they could improve and you regress to 'if, if, if' dismissal.

None of them are perfect and as such it is fine to discuss all their strengths and weaknesses.

The ruck debate is over

....although may be reignited with a form increase from those not in the side at some stage in the future

It's not the Bay where you can elevate your opinion above others. If I didn't know better, I would think you are baiting. Surely not ...

 

[Weiterbot23]

We need to trade one (for the right price).

Can't carry 4...in the furture we will struggle to carry 3 when they all develop into guns at age 25-26. I'm sure swanny has it all under control

 

[Silvagnis]

I'm channelling Aphrodite

Mark Robinson

4. Sam Jacobs. His Blues were beaten, but he was among his team's better plays as second ruck/forward. Right now, it makes the Robert Warnock trade look a major bust.

Mark Robinson

 

[Weiterbot23]

Re: I'm channelling Aphrodite

Mark Robinson

Mark Robinson

FFS!!!! Just F*** Off Robbo!

 

[Claypigeon]

We need to trade one (for the right price).

Can't carry 4...in the furture we will struggle to carry 3 when they all develop into guns at age 25-26. I'm sure swanny has it all under control

While I understand it, I don't like this "We need to trade one" business. .. Sure if one of them starts making noise about wanting to move on then Carlton should think about it and try to dissuade him. .. What we need to do is exactly what we are doing. .. Keep developing all four of them and play the best 2 (unless we need a third, rarely). .. Keep them on the competitive edge and pushing each other to excel (Sauce and Kreuze have the right attitude atm). .. If we get an injury then that gives one of the others a chance to step up. .. There is no way we want to be in the position the Hawks were in earlier this season. ..

Edit: Oh and the debate is never over, it just evolves into a new one

 

[chaser1]

Robinson is the one of the worst commentators of football i have ever seen. A hypricote of epic proportions, Warnock trade a bust the KID has played 25 games of football. Ruckman do not mature until 25 ,26 the occasional FREAKS like Kreuzer and NIC Nat may prove this wrong.

He picked Carlton to miss on the eight bc of the FEVOLA factor like many others, so basically did not have too much time for us. OKAY, fair enough. But last week he mentions on TV channel Seven, that Carlton is being the SIDE that we all expected to be. That is a finals side with aspirations of making top four. How can he lay claim to this comment when he said that,Carlton will struggle without Fevola. Absolute flog who changes with the wind when it suits. Shows you he has no idea and will do anything to sell his stories in the worst paper in Australia the Herald SUN!

Has no credibility in my eyes. like 90 per cent of other so called writers of football. Stick to drinking beer and eating puffcakes you fat piece of tripe!!

 

[4QTR BLUES]

Perception......

It's a sad fact that many football followers discount a player because they don't display the physical attributes associated with AFL.

Its true that Jacobs always appears to be the lumbering giant who is too slow and cumbersome to make the grade particularly when compared to an equally tall player who can run 20 metres in 2.83 seconds or another who is 206 cm tall or another who has a competitive edge like no other.

The fact of the matter is that Sauce at the moment is a better footballer/ruckman than at least 2 of them (I dont think I need to point out who). He was the better ruckman last year in the Bullants but despite this because of perception he took a back seat. The bloke runs as hard, presents, marks and uses his body as well as any ruckman running around in the AFL if not better. He deserves this opportunity.

And when the other two, who are obviously more physically gifted, are able to read the play and follow the flight of the ball and mark as well then surely they will be given an opportunity. But at the moment Sauce is the man and let all comers wrestle the title.