The Trade Thread (Part 2)

[FlyingSledghamer]

I think your frustration is justified, I mean we've had Crows supporters gloating left right and centre about a player who most of them probably have never seen. If (and I still believe it's a big if) we secure Walsh I hope no Sydney supporters come here to troll.

On the bolded part, you're being a tad dramatic. Players are traded all the time, no team has a list of players who were only developed by them and when you get a chance to grab a promising KPP you should do it.

I will be proud of the Swans if we manage to secure Walsh as it would be a smart move, but of course the Saints will rightly feel cheated after the work they've put in.

Any idea what the swans want to offer us for Walsh? Are any of your players up in this trade offer.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Any idea what the swans want to offer us for Walsh? Are any of your players up in this trade offer.

No idea, I assume 35/41, some of our players are available but not sure you'd want them.

At this stage the Saints have said no to trading, so its kind of hard to know what we'd be willing to give up.

Was there any player in particular you are interested in that you think you're a reasonable chance at getting (ie Not Reid/Rohan/Parker/Johnson)

 

[BarneyBent]

bloodstainedangel5 - please don't harp on with your ill-informed opinions.

We did the work to identify him and recruit him.
We have put 2 years of quality work into his AFL education.
We have nurtured him into a fairly decent footballer.

The Saints have been in negotiations to promote Walsh for some time.
We know what he has been paid, what he is now worth, and we are keen to reap the rewards of all the work we have put into him.

Sydney FC on the other hand have done nothing except throw the promise of money his way.

If your club wins out, it will not be because of the sweat of your brow, but the fatness of your wallet. Are you proud of this? This is the moral equivalent of Carlton FC.

We Sainters are not pleased with your bleatings on this board. We are aware of the situation and are not eager to hear your erroneous take on it. Go away and post on your own board.

You have been warned.

I'm sorry if I've caused offence. I didn't mean to.

You may have identified, recruited and nurtured him, but the Swans identified, recruited and nurtured Anthony Rocca. It happens. If you're unable to give Walsh what he wants, then is it not fair that he comes to a club that can give him both the money and the game time he deserves?

There is a skill in identifying players that will do better at one's own club than at the club they are currently at. The Swans are very good at doing this. This is as much a skill as identifying the talent in the first place.

To say that it is by the fatness of our wallet rather than the sweat of our brow, so to speak, is therefore erroneous and offensive, especially given the fact that all clubs have the same amount to spend, and the only reason we have money to splash at the moment is that we just had a bunch of highly paid players retire. If you asked Swans fans whether they'd rather have Craig Bolton or Tommy Walsh next year, I can't see too many saying Walsh.

If you'd like me to stop posting in this thread, then this will be the last you hear from me, but I mean no harm nor disrespect. I'm just looking for some discussion.

 

[StFly]

I think your frustration is justified, I mean we've had Crows supporters gloating left right and centre about a player who most of them probably have never seen. If (and I still believe it's a big if) we secure Walsh I hope no Sydney supporters come here to troll.

Less frustrated and more facepalming really.

Your cap is so tight that you can't afford to upgrade Walsh

How tight is the cap, exactly?

Perhaps if they weren't posting dire twattage dressed up in goose feathers they'd be treated a bit more civilly, we aren't junkies needing any agenda being pushed in that sort of ignorant effort at a post. There is enough of that sort of speculative rubbish by blokes like Barrett in the media ranging his estimates from 200k to 1m+ in the "holy shit, it be baaaad" stakes.

You haven't exactly offloaded any huge names this trade week.

List Lodgement 1 predates the date set for draft nominations (ND, PSD & Rookie), and as such will of course allow for a club that needs to shed dollars to delist individuals no longer desired. The club in question is not forced to trade them during the trade period despite what anyone may desire.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

I'm amazed at all of you, you are talking like we are about to lose Lenny Hayes. Just in case you have forgotten, Walsh has been at the club for 2 years and is yet to play a senior game. If he goes to Sydney on ridiculous money, then more fool Sydney, let's keep developing talent who want to be with us, he may end up the biggest dud of all time.

 

[con_laz]

very good bryza.. totally agree

 

[Berankis]

Josh Caddy for Gilbert?

 

[Bloodbrother]

StFly quote
List Lodgement 1 predates the date set for draft nominations (ND, PSD & Rookie), and as such will of course allow for a club that needs to shed dollars to delist individuals no longer desired. The club in question is not forced to trade them during the trade period despite what anyone may desire.[/quote]
Yes this is true but why would you delist a player when you could possibly get something??

Sounds like cutting your nose to spite your face. No offence intended.

The next few hours will be very interesting.

 

[stkildathunda]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/saints-weigh-up-gram-trade/story-e6frg7mf-1226168006825

CONTRACTED St Kilda midfielder/defender Jason Gram could today join Carlton if a late bid by the Blues is successful before the 2pm trade deadline.

It is understood the Saints are entertaining the prospect of losing Gram for a satisfactory trade swap involving at least one high draft selection.

If Gram - the Saints' best-and-fairest runner-up in 2006 behind Nick Riewoldt - is traded, it will ease the club's salary cap pressure and allow St Kilda to retain its required players who are currently out of contract.

Gram played 20 games this season and finished 10th to Sam Fisher in St Kilda's best-and-fairest count.

After playing two games for Brisbane in 2003, he was traded to the Saints, where he has since played a further 137 matches.

St Kilda has already traded Tom Lynch to Adelaide, but has refused to deal with Sydney, which has a keen interest in Irishman Tom Walsh, who is yet to play a senior game

 

[InkerSaint]

Yes this is true but why would you delist a player when you could possibly get something??

Sounds like cutting your nose to spite your face. No offence intended.

The next few hours will be very interesting.

That's what is known as a loaded question.

Here's another one: Why in a zero sum game would you hand a competitor an unnecessary advantage?

Our current list management team are leaps and bounds ahead of what we've had in the past. I have confidence there won't be a repeat of the Ball fiasco.

 

[stkildathunda]

Watters on the 4 guys:

Gram, Dawson, Ray are all required players, have a major role going forward. You can take that as they are off table.

Scott Watters on Tommy Walsh - Highly rate him, has outstanding leadership capabilities. Needs to play. He is categorically off the table. Can see him playing a hell lot of football. That doesnt mean in 2 years time, next year. But having said that needs to earn his right to play.

 

[VDS66]

Opposition supporters who think we will sacrifice real talent just to ease the cap are deluding themselves.

Watters has identified 2 things this morning...

We needplayers with foot skills.
We have enough emerging players with pace.

Hence you will probably see a player like Gram go for a draft pick. This eases the cap and allows you to draft a good kid in one swoop.

Bottom line: You don't have to dump your stars to ease the cap. There are ways around it. You can trade out 2 B graders and achieve the desired result.

Lynch was one of them... watch this space for the other.

 

[AFLOnline]

Wouldn't be all that disappointed if we lost Gram for a highish draft pick, 25 or better? His disposal isn't what it use to be, doesn't find nearly as much of the ball and relies on others getting the pill to him more and more frequently.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I really fail to understand why Carlton would want Gram. If they offer a first rounder for him, you'd find it hard to knock back. However I doubt Gram would agree to move.

 

[Squizz]

Still think with the noises being that we need to do something today, the other clubs won't have "wow" offers. Really can't see a first rounder being offered up (on its own). But if it was - wow.

 

[Squizz]

I really fail to understand why Carlton would want Gram. If they offer a first rounder for him, you'd find it hard to knock back. However I doubt Gram would agree to move.

Carlton want to challenge. I think Gram would help.

He's been bitching a fair bit this year, and was one of the ones who didn't/doesn't like Seaford. Lygon St might hold a bit more appeal?

I still believe we can afford to lose one of the regulars (if we need to in order to keep the cap under control). Although if we lose Walsh (one of the main backup options) there would be alot more pressure on others (like Simpkin and Winmar as other defensive options) to develop.

If Grammy wants to stay, who else (on his sort of money) would we be looking at? Faz maybe, although he's 2 years younger - and sits in that age bracket where we're a bit thin.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Gram loves Seaford, he lives in Mordialloc and will be pissed if he gets traded. I can't see us giving him to another top 4 contender.

 

[goodie23]

Gram loves Seaford, he lives in Mordialloc and will be pissed if he gets traded. I can't see us giving him to another top 4 contender.

That's why Carlton

 

[AFLOnline]

Gram would be the pick for mine out of our best 22 to trade. Not necessarily because I think his a poor player, but I'm thinking because we most likely pay him more than what he is worth. He just butchers the ball far to often.

 

[Squizz]

Gram loves Seaford, he lives in Mordialloc and will be pissed if he gets traded. I can't see us giving him to another top 4 contender.

We've got the luxury to determine where players are traded if we have to make some cap space?

Have to laugh with Seaford. They needed to address the issue as a playing group, even though everyone somehow seems to love it!

Great that he wants to stay though.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I would have been happy with Gram + a first round draft pick upgrade.
Now that our best pick is 25, I'm not sure that Gram +25 would be good enough for a low pick.
If Carlton want him the best they can offer is pick 22. Which would be a bit light on for me, and I'm not sure that trying to sweeten it with late picks or gop's would help.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Have to laugh with Seaford. They needed to address the issue as a playing group, even though everyone somehow seems to love it!

I think most have moved or made adjustments to facilitate the change in home base. Bring it on in 2012!

 

[Squizz]

If Carlton want him the best they can offer is pick 22. Which would be a bit light on for me

Yeah, it does.

Pick 44 plus a first round upgrade is worth something though (maybe not Gram)?

I just don't think that Lynch releases any real cap space (when he's replaced by a new player on say $60k).

Maybe I was a bit hasty with going along with the article on Gram. But if there are cap issues at play, I'm struggling to think of any names.

 

[Squizz]

I think most have moved or made adjustments to facilitate the change in home base. Bring it on in 2012!

Yeah, missed Grammy's move from Port Melbourne this year after the club shifted base. Good to see (still heard he didn't like it at the time!).

You're not worried about today (2011), Guide?

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Big Benny Mac has bought a lovely home at Mount Martha, the Peninsula is a beautiful part of the world, Seaford will be a winner long term.