Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[Fossie 32]

For a moment I thought that was Ernie Sigley.. Is it?

No just a random pic

 

[David Schwarz]

Never been the type to say "give it time" but it's a bit harsh to write us off after a fortnight

The only disappointing thing is that we got pushed around by North, who for me possess the toughness of a plank of balsa wood

We've had a pretty rough opening draw. Should put in a better showing next week and the following fortnight after

 

[ivan rassmussen]

I listened to 774 on the way home as well. What stood out to me, was the comments by Boomer Harvey, who is never a good winner, (his snide comment on Boyd was noted). His comments about we knew they would tire, they were coming back from WA, is say' more about his football team than ours. So his players were not prepared to put in the hard yards, instead they waited for our boys to tire. Talking to North supporter at the game he was disgusted, our players would sprint to the contest, Norths' would jog or walk, they did the same thing last week and were smashed they are lazy players. If Boomer cared about that football club, he should be disappointed that it was him, there oldest player who was the difference on the day, what does that say about the rebuild that has been happening at North Melbourne for the last 5+ years!!!!!!!!!

I agree, just wanted to post a short comment about 774 earlier.
Harvey early in the game played 'bruise-free' football, as did Dal Santo. The two of them only got into the game as we tired. Early in the game, one of our players dispossessed Harvey near the centre like he was a little kid. Dal Santo avoids contact and contests like the plague - always has. Lindsay Thomas on the other hand, is without doubt the softest (and to clarify by that I mean lacking any ticker or anything between his legs) player in the league, with daylight to whoever is next. Cheap shots on Picken when he was on the ground, staying on the ground after losing a contest. Pathetic, absolutely pathetic. Also dropped the ball early in the game as soon as he was challenged, without any contact being made. The modern day version of a squib.

 

[srobbo]

What happens to Crameri if Macca gets the arse then?

 

[ivan rassmussen]

What happens to Crameri if Macca gets the arse then?

We'll trade him back to you for your first round pick and Carlisle....

 

[Igloo]

What happens to Crameri if Macca gets the arse then?

He plays football.

 

[Super Hans]

This thread is embarrassing.

 

[Super Hans]

He plays football.

It's like Crameri only gets a game because of the coach, has nothing to do with him being a good player.

 

[littlenails]

Congratulations to Mattdougie This is an excellent thread. Great to see such a passionate supporter really expressing his opinion forcefully. Boo to those who sought to insult and humiliate.

Mattdougie makes a number of valid points. Our forward line is still poor and it appears as though some players have gone backwards or just stagnated.

The problem that I have is that we don't know Macca's plan. What are his strategies, his tactics, what steps are involved, what milestones has he set, what are his objectives, what is the timeline, are there any performance measures? What are the plans for each player? If we knew what his plans were then we could make more incisive comments.

I saw that in Macca's press conference after the game he alluded to players, playing for Footscray who did not deserve a game. They will come back once they have learned. And he talked about Wood being given a harder job than he expected. Macca was possibly alluding to Talia. Talia having to play in the two's until he straightens his game out will come back a better player. It was a big mystery why Talia has not been played for the last two weeks. Macca is obviously quite happy to risk losing a game in order to straighten out a player. I wish he would explain all of this. He must remember that he has a lot of football savvy members out there who are perplexed by some of his decisions.

It would help if Macca gave us at least a brief outline of his major strategies along with a rough timeline. In the meantime, when things go horribly wrong we are left to just spin our eyes and wonder.

 

[Mutt]

Congratulations to Mattdougie This is an excellent thread. Great to see such a passionate supporter really expressing his opinion forcefully. Boo to those who sought to insult and humiliate.

Mattdougie makes a number of valid points. Our forward line is still poor and it appears as though some players have gone backwards or just stagnated.

The problem that I have is that we don't know Macca's plan. What are his strategies, his tactics, what steps are involved, what milestones has he set, what are his objectives, what is the timeline, are there any performance measures? What are the plans for each player? If we knew what his plans were then we could make more incisive comments.

I saw that in Macca's press conference after the game he alluded to players, playing for Footscray who did not deserve a game. They will come back once they have learned. And he talked about Wood being given a harder job than he expected. Macca was possibly alluding to Talia. Talia having to play in the two's until he straightens his game out will come back a better player. It was a big mystery why Talia has not been played for the last two weeks. Macca is obviously quite happy to risk losing a game in order to straighten out a player. I wish he would explain all of this. He must remember that he has a lot of football savvy members out there who are perplexed by some of his decisions.

It would help if Macca gave us at least a brief outline of his major strategies along with a rough timeline. In the meantime, when things go horribly wrong we are left to just spin our eyes and wonder.

Macca may not want to be disrespectful and counter-productive by calling out specific players and humiliating them in public.

I think your speculation as to what may be on Macca's mind is probably pretty much spot on and that's all we'll have to go on.

As to what Macca's game plan is - well I think we and Port have been more transparent about that than just about any of the clubs.

I agree that discussion about the coach's performance is great - I'm not sure that starting a thread calling for his sacking is the way to get a rational and meaningful dialogue going - of course the thread title is going to get Macca supporters out in force all guns blazing. A controversial thread is going to raise passions and sometimes things will be said that probably shouldn't happen on this board. Macca supporters and critics are both guilty here. That's the internet for you I guess.

 

[dogwatch]

Macca does reveal some of his strategies in the press conferences. Sunday's was a good example.

It's a two-edged sword. You want to keep faith with supporters but you don't want to let the opposition have too much material to work with. He also knows that his players are people too, not just pieces of meat, so he wants to respect them and the private conversations he might have with them, as Mutt has suggested.

Much as I'd like to see Talia back, I agree with whoever posted that it's better to make sure Talia et al have learned the right disciplines before they get another AFL game. I don't think Talia has been exceptionally naughty - Macca is just saying "while I'm in charge, these are the non-negotiables". If anything it's a vote of confidence that Talia has a real future and is worth persevering with. He'll be back soon enough and will be a better player for it. Not only that, everyone in the team will know that Macca is serious and there are no shortcuts or soft options.

 

[Testekill]

Jesus ****, a coach should never call players out in the media. It's so ****ing counterproductive.

 

[Fossie 32]

Jesus ****, a coach should never call players out in the media. It's so ******* counterproductive.

Are you saying he has??
I'm not so keen on keeping players out of the team to teach them a lesson or whatever - who knows what's going on though.

 

[yebiga]

Give the man some privacy for heavens sake

Sent from my toilet

 

[ivan rassmussen]

The problem that I have is that we don't know Macca's plan. What are his strategies, his tactics, what steps are involved, what milestones has he set, what are his objectives, what is the timeline, are there any performance measures? What are the plans for each player? If we knew what his plans were then we could make more incisive comments.

Which other AFL coach has ever publicly outlined:
- their tactics
- the steps involved
- internal milestones/timeline
- the plan for each player?

As to objectives, the ultimate objective, hopefully, is a flag?

But who in their right mind would reveal the other answers you want to the entire AFL community?

So the coach should sit down at a press conference and say "Right, I'll just run through our 40-odd players, and let you all know what the club's plans are for them in 2014. All you journos got some coffee, it might take a few hours...?"

 

[DognBones]

Did anybody really expect us to be winning games in Rounds 1 and 2 against teams that are more advanced than us? I certainly didn't. I think we have to realise that many of us have unreal assessments of the list that McCarthy has at his disposal. We have serious gaps in several areas of playing personnel: key position players, fast on-ballers and skillful kickers. We will need to wait longer to assess whether Macca is developing the right game plan to overcome these deficiencies.
If indeed there is little or no clear strategy in game plan and improvement in skills as the season progresses, then we will have every right to adopt a more critical response towards not just Macca but also to his bevy of assistants.
Let's give everybody more time to learn, develop and get the right personnel into the team. If I've been waiting 50+ years to get to the holy grail I can wait a few more months.

 

[srobbo]

We'll trade him back to you for your first round pick and Carlisle....

What 1st rd pick?

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Congratulations to Mattdougie This is an excellent thread. Great to see such a passionate supporter really expressing his opinion forcefully. Boo to those who sought to insult and humiliate.

Mattdougie makes a number of valid points. Our forward line is still poor and it appears as though some players have gone backwards or just stagnated.

The problem that I have is that we don't know Macca's plan. What are his strategies, his tactics, what steps are involved, what milestones has he set, what are his objectives, what is the timeline, are there any performance measures? What are the plans for each player? If we knew what his plans were then we could make more incisive comments.

I saw that in Macca's press conference after the game he alluded to players, playing for Footscray who did not deserve a game. They will come back once they have learned. And he talked about Wood being given a harder job than he expected. Macca was possibly alluding to Talia. Talia having to play in the two's until he straightens his game out will come back a better player. It was a big mystery why Talia has not been played for the last two weeks. Macca is obviously quite happy to risk losing a game in order to straighten out a player. I wish he would explain all of this. He must remember that he has a lot of football savvy members out there who are perplexed by some of his decisions.

It would help if Macca gave us at least a brief outline of his major strategies along with a rough timeline. In the meantime, when things go horribly wrong we are left to just spin our eyes and wonder.

Wasn't it Ross Lyon who dropped Dal Santo (I think it was) into the two's for a few weeks until he started playing better. Nothing wrong with a bit of discipline, better now than in our premiership challenge year.

Anyway, I think there are two kinds of supporters, those who want to win every week, even if it means playing older players who won't be around in a few years time, or those who are happy to see us take a loss after a good battle playing and developing the kids with an eye to the future.

 

[Butane]

I totally agree that we're never going to win the first games but at the same time we've gone well worse than the bookies line - as far as I know it's the best prediction of games and anyone that knows any better than them should be a millionaire.

But that said hopefully we've learnt a lot of from these 'penciled loses' to make the most of the games where we're half a chance.

I'm not buying the list gaps not being Macca's fault anymore though. He's had 3 draft and trade periods to rectify a lot of that. Without looking at the figures I'd say we've turned over more than half of our list and if we have a shortage or plethora of similar position players than that now lies at the feet of those responsible for list management and team selection. When you've got players like Wood, Goodes and Young all treading water and Howard, Pearce and even Tutt doing the same with the bizarre 'forever rookie' Greenwood you can't throw blame others for not having an extra KPP lying around due to the team list being full. Especially when we must be sitting at the minimum salary cap with our list.

I hope to god we've fronted ended the hell out of all our players contracts and we just slingshot to the top in the next few years after raiding a few clubs. It's certainly a possibility.

 

[Butane]

What happens to Crameri if Macca gets the arse then?

Surely this is considered trolling? I can't see how facetious comments like this add to the board in anyway.

 

[fargy]

I totally agree that we're never going to win the first games but at the same time we've gone well worse than the bookies line - as far as I know it's the best prediction of games and anyone that knows any better than them should be a millionaire.

I wouldn't say that a loss of 29 with the line at 20.5 is well worse than the line... Round 1 yes but all the money was for the Eagles at the line and the line was continually going out and was said to be the bookies worst result of that weekend.

 

[fargy]

I might have to get some popcorn ready for Saturday arvo. Richmond have really flogged us lately and I'm not confident going into the game at all. Can't imagine what some people will be saying if we get thrashed again, might be a delist Griffen thread the way some people go about it

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Funnily enough I still rate us a chance on Saturday. There were actually many postives from Sunday's game IMO. The last 10 minutes was all Norf had over us IMO (and if JJ had kicked that sitter with 10 minutes to go then we probably wouldnt have been deflated for that last 10 minutes either). Our defensive pressure was enourmous for 3 and 2/3 quarters.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I totally agree that we're never going to win the first games but at the same time we've gone well worse than the bookies line - as far as I know it's the best prediction of games and anyone that knows any better than them should be a millionaire.

But that said hopefully we've learnt a lot of from these 'penciled loses' to make the most of the games where we're half a chance.

I'm not buying the list gaps not being Macca's fault anymore though. He's had 3 draft and trade periods to rectify a lot of that. Without looking at the figures I'd say we've turned over more than half of our list and if we have a shortage or plethora of similar position players than that now lies at the feet of those responsible for list management and team selection. When you've got players like Wood, Goodes and Young all treading water and Howard, Pearce and even Tutt doing the same with the bizarre 'forever rookie' Greenwood you can't throw blame others for not having an extra KPP lying around due to the team list being full. Especially when we must be sitting at the minimum salary cap with our list.

I hope to god we've fronted ended the hell out of all our players contracts and we just slingshot to the top in the next few years after raiding a few clubs. It's certainly a possibility.

But to be fair what realistic options for KPFs and KPDs did we pass up over his tenure?? And whilst we still have some gaps the players we have drafted have been fantastic. Lower perhaps not but he played a role and was virtually free - not much value in lamenting recruitment of players that cost us next to nothing. Those that did cost have all been great to date IMO.

 

[Butane]

I wouldn't say that a loss of 29 with the line at 20.5 is well worse than the line... Round 1 yes but all the money was for the Eagles at the line and the line was continually going out and was said to be the bookies worst result of that weekend.

True, 29pts isn't to far away but North played terribly - worse than us on a relative scale of expectation. Considering Richmond are 20.5 now if I was a punter I'd be keen for that but like I said the bookies get it right a lot more than the public so maybe 20.5pts against Richmond isn't to bad.

If we take the same side in against them as we did last week we'll be an older and more experienced team than Richmond.