Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[VitalDread]

Look Vital, we all know there is a quick fix to the team's losing form but everyone is too scared to say it.

Prudden?

 

[Mofra]

So he's either a hero or the devil?
Brilliant or woeful?

For me, the truth lies in the middle. He is great at developing the kids, and obviously in the first two years was playing to a development schedule as opposed to an all out desire to win ever game.

Now the bad: our midfield setup. We seem to have the habit of looking backwards to handball whenever we take possession in a contested situation, and players far too often receive the ball when stationary with opponents nearby.
It's dumb football, puts us under pressure to release the ball poorly which gives our undersized forwardline little chance.

This is a coaching issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[Lucky Star]

Prudden?

It's time.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Thanks B Tron, most of us realise this, and think we are assembling a really good list, but it does take time to get the necessary fitness into these young players along with improved skills and experience. Some of our supporters have forgotten that before Eade we were in the wilderness for a number of years developing the 2009 team.

No problem. All clubs have supporters who can't see the forest for the trees but in the big picture I think your club are very much on the right path. Get a few talls in during this draft and target one via FA and in three years time when Griffen and Cooney are the old heads but still kicking it they will add the polish to what is looking like a pretty formidable midfield group. One more tall forward to take the heat off Jones who would then get the third tall and two more quality KPD's to take pressure off Roughead and replace Morris and I reckon you'll be right.

 

[Butane]

I was listening to 774 on the drive home and I can't remember who was on but Scott West was in there and it hurts when they're all laughing about how 'McCarthy'(that's what one called him!) is trying to build a Geelong side but without any skill or class. They all thought that was hilarious.

I don't think Macca should be sacked as his (long term)vision and level headedness(Seen a few small cracks recently though!) will make him a capable coach but I strongly disagree with his selection of assistant coaches and part-part time 'novelty' coaches who have almost no 'skin in the game' when it comes to getting results.

Match day selection/match ups are mostly poor but it would be unfair to say they get them all wrong. Picken>Thomas and Wallis>Wells worked great and Cooney is finding more space than ever. When we get a win this positives will be clearer around the ground.

My other gripe, which I've had from the beginning is the mentality and process of rebuilding. No doubt we were due for some rough times and the current administration can't be blamed for that. My personal opinion that rebuilding a list from scratch is over-rated - I think richer clubs do it better and faster because they have the expectation from their major sponsors and powerful supporters force them to become competitive quickly. Us on the other hand have fallen for the failed old Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne model of rebooting a club.

The clubs low expectations have been met. Would any other coach, if they accepted the club needed to invest in young talent at least to some extent(rhetorical question) have done any better or worse? I can't say they would have done any better but I can also say they wouldn't have done any worse.

I also find the points that we have good young talent to not be a fair reflection on the coaching staff either way you look at it. We've had early draft picks and good father sons, we've used them well but so did every other club around us on the draft list(Mayes, Valustin, Daniher, Wines, Viney, Grundy ect). Nothing special achieved. Not sure where the evidence is that McCartney has been such a good developer of talent at the Dogs compared to other clubs who have similar highly talented youngsters. I'm not saying he's bad at at I just think there is no evidence he's better than anyone else and I think we're just swallowing the party line.

And considering we must have the most money to spare in our salary cap we've managed to make almost no use of that. In fact we've 'pinched' Young, Darley and Lower. Not exactly making a powerful statement there. People/media think Crameri is on a billion dollars but he's on around 400K a year which is hardly near the top bracket for players in 2014 while teams like Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Fremantle and even GWS and Melbourne are pulling down big contract players. Although I do acknowledge that at least we did get Crameri which is a good start but once again we've achieved the minimum expectation. Again - would any other coach that is trying to build a club do any better or worse than the this? I guess a coach could go overboard but it's hardly note worthy to praise someone for doing the obvious.

We're just such an irrelevant club at the moment. Going through the basic motions and patting ourselves on the back for things that should be a given.

 

[DexterTan]

I was listening to 774 on the drive home and I can't remember who was on but Scott West was in there and it hurts when they're all laughing about how 'McCarthy'(that's what one called him!) is trying to build a Geelong side but without any skill or class. They all thought that was hilarious.

I don't think Macca should be sacked as his (long term)vision and level headedness(Seen a few small cracks recently though!) will make him a capable coach but I strongly disagree with his selection of assistant coaches and part-part time 'novelty' coaches who have almost no 'skin in the game' when it comes to getting results.

Match day selection/match ups are mostly poor but it would be unfair to say they get them all wrong. Picken>Thomas and Wallis>Wells worked great and Cooney is finding more space than ever. When we get a win this positives will be clearer around the ground.

My other gripe, which I've had from the beginning is the mentality and process of rebuilding. No doubt we were due for some rough times and the current administration can't be blamed for that. My personal opinion that rebuilding a list from scratch is over-rated - I think richer clubs do it better and faster because they have the expectation from their major sponsors and powerful supporters force them to become competitive quickly. Us on the other hand have fallen for the failed old Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne model of rebooting a club.

The clubs low expectations have been met. Would any other coach, if they accepted the club needed to invest in young talent at least to some extent(rhetorical question) have done any better or worse? I can't say they would have done any better but I can also say they wouldn't have done any worse.

I also find the points that we have good young talent to not be a fair reflection on the coaching staff either way you look at it. We've had early draft picks and good father sons, we've used them well but so did every other club around us on the draft list(Mayes, Valustin, Daniher, Wines, Viney, Grundy ect). Nothing special achieved there and considering we must have the most money to spare in our salary cap we've managed to make almost no use of that. In fact we've 'pinched' Young, Darley and Lower. Not exactly making a powerful statement there. People/media think Crameri is on a billion dollars but he's on around 400K a year which is hardly near the top bracket for players in 2014 while teams like Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Fremantle and even GWS and Melbourne are pulling down big contract players. Although I do acknowledge that at least we did get Crameri which is a good start but once again we've achieved the minimum expectation. Again - would any other coach that is trying to build a club do any better or worse than the this?

We're just such an irrelevant club at the moment. Going through the basic motions and patting ourselves on the back for things that should be a given.

Depends on what kind person you are Butane.

If you prefer to look at the negatives then you'll always be down on the dumps and feel your team is irrelevant then that's your choice.

I prefer to look at Jack Macrae maturing, Lachie Hunter taking screamers, Wallis shutting down Wells, Thomas being a non factor thanks to Picken.

But again, that's how you prefer to look at your footy team. I prefer to look forward to Saturday when we have a VFL game at VUWO and then the AFL game against Richmond at Etihad.


As for those potting the coaching strategy of handballing backwards to a stationery target. I look at that strategy in terms of NFL. Ball gets sent back to the QB, who surveys the field and picks out the correct target. It sounds good in theory, but you need players to work to get in position and the kicker to effectively kick the ball. Need some coverage from the back too, so the kicker has time. Unfortunately, in practice, it's not working very well when the opposition is amping up the pressure and our players aren't working hard enough either defending the kicker or making themselves a target downfield.

 

[Butane]

Depends on what kind person you are Butane.

If you prefer to look at the negatives then you'll always be down on the dumps and feel your team is irrelevant then that's your choice.

I prefer to look at Jack Macrae maturing, Lachie Hunter taking screamers, Wallis shutting down Wells, Thomas being a non factor thanks to Picken.

But again, that's how you prefer to look at your footy team. I prefer to look forward to Saturday when we have a VFL game at VUWO and then the AFL game against Richmond at Etihad.

Would Macrae and Hunter not be maturing at any other club? I agree they've certainly been one of the rare positives for us so far. I guess we won't know but I like the look of quite a few youngsters at each and every club and I think if we're hanging our hats on what seems to be par than we could have appointed any of the coaches that applied for the position.

That's what young players do. They improve. Lots haven't too but I guess you forget to mention them.

(Your personal jab didn't go unnoticed either)

 

[ivan rassmussen]

I was listening to 774 on the drive home and I can't remember who was on but Scott West was in there and it hurts when they're all laughing about how 'McCarthy'(that's what one called him!) is trying to build a Geelong side but without any skill or class. They all thought that was hilarious.

So was I, driving home towards Ballarat. The commentators were West, Stan Alves, Dan Lonergan, and someone who I've already forgotten! More revealing was the Harvey interview where he said several times they knew that they'd run over the top of us after halftime because of the Perth trip (makes a mockery of some posters on here when a bloke who's played 360+ games acknowledges the after-effects of the travel). He also said that on one of his runs, he was being chased by Boyd and knew he wouldn't catch him. When he ran along the city wing (in front of where I sit), 3 players had a go at chasing him, and none got close.

 

[Ant_]

So was I, driving home towards Ballarat. The commentators were West, Stan Alves, Dan Lonergan, and someone who I've already forgotten! More revealing was the Harvey interview where he said several times they knew that they'd run over the top of us after halftime because of the Perth trip (makes a mockery of some posters on here when a bloke who's played 360+ games acknowledges the after-effects of the travel). He also said that on one of his runs, he was being chased by Boyd and knew he wouldn't catch him. When he ran along the city wing (in front of where I sit), 3 players had a go at chasing him, and none got close.

Lonergan is a serial hater, lost all interest in his opinion

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I was listening to 774 on the drive home and I can't remember who was on but Scott West was in there and it hurts when they're all laughing about how 'McCarthy'(that's what one called him!) is trying to build a Geelong side but without any skill or class. They all thought that was hilarious.

A remarkably classless segment in itself. Without any skill or class? You'd think West of all people would understand the development aspect.
Lonergan's a ****ing moron. He's only notable because people call him out on his random remarks on the game and on clubs, all of which have absolutely no substance whatsoever. Honestly don't know how he has a job.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

This thread makes me want to spew up.

 

[fronkalicious]

Maybe we could trade McCartney for Sanderson. Adelaide fans want him out after 2 rounds as well.

 

[Dogs 13]

I am ok with BMAC at the moment what I dont like is his cronies around him

We should get the man below for assistant coach in 2015

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/peter-...against-west-coast-eagles-20140218-32x66.html

Not for me thanks Fred. He's like one of our sworn enemies like Wayne Campbell, isn't he ?

 

[mambavino]

A remarkably classless segment in itself. Without any skill or class? You'd think West of all people would understand the development aspect.
Lonergan's a ******* moron. He's only notable because people call him out on his random remarks on the game and on clubs, all of which have absolutely no substance whatsoever. Honestly don't know how he has a job.

I've met and spoken to Lonergan at a social function, as he is a friend of a friend, so I can second your opinion of him. The bloke is full of it, and my eyes started to glaze over as soon as he began talking.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Yep and Paul Roos should be sacked too - clearly a really crap coach (look at that thumping by the Eagles in Melb)...

Prophets of Doom in full effect by Round 2

 

[Dogs 13]

No problem. All clubs have supporters who can't see the forest for the trees but in the big picture I think your club are very much on the right path. Get a few talls in during this draft and target one via FA and in three years time when Griffen and Cooney are the old heads but still kicking it they will add the polish to what is looking like a pretty formidable midfield group. One more tall forward to take the heat off Jones who would then get the third tall and two more quality KPD's to take pressure off Roughead and replace Morris and I reckon you'll be right.

Thanks for trying to inject some common sense here B Tron, but we've heard for many years that all we need are a couple of tall targets and it just never happens (except for recruiting Barry Hall a year too late). For some reason we just can't or won't recruit or develop them.

 

[Butane]

No problem. All clubs have supporters who can't see the forest for the trees but in the big picture I think your club are very much on the right path. Get a few talls in during this draft and target one via FA and in three years time when Griffen and Cooney are the old heads but still kicking it they will add the polish to what is looking like a pretty formidable midfield group. One more tall forward to take the heat off Jones who would then get the third tall and two more quality KPD's to take pressure off Roughead and replace Morris and I reckon you'll be right.

You're right, we're going to get better with the amount of young talent we have. Getting a 17 year old tall at the end of 2014 will mean it'll be 2018 when they're 21 years old and useful even then they still be a few years away from hitting their peak.

Should have sorted this stuff out over the past few seasons. It was pretty obvious wasn't it. I guess there wasn't any available that were worth it.

 

[Dogs 13]

I prefer to look at Jack Macrae maturing, Lachie Hunter taking screamers, Wallis shutting down Wells, Thomas being a non factor thanks to Picken.

We've always had a core group of fantastic footballers who are worshiped at the club, but it's that whole team going in the one direction that we seem to have struggled with for what feels like forever.

 

[immortalmike]

A remarkably classless segment in itself. Without any skill or class? You'd think West of all people would understand the development aspect.
Lonergan's a ******* moron. He's only notable because people call him out on his random remarks on the game and on clubs, all of which have absolutely no substance whatsoever. Honestly don't know how he has a job.

I'm more worried about that joke already being used several times in the first half of last year. Then it disappeared for the last 9 or so rounds and pre-season. I can't work out if these guys are just lazy or actually have memory problems.

 

[Dogs 13]

So was I, driving home towards Ballarat. The commentators were West, Stan Alves, Dan Lonergan, and someone who I've already forgotten! .

And Alves doesn't rate us at all. Didn't he say something last year like Melbourne were in a better position than us and had a better future.

 

[TMoney22]

Yep and Paul Roos should be sacked too - clearly a really crap coach (look at that thumping by the Eagles in Melb)...

Prophets of Doom in full effect by Round 2

was going to post this as well. great point

 

[fred cook]

was going to post this as well. great point

Uh Duh Paul Roos has coached his side twice in AFL games

BM has coached this side 46 AFL games so please come back to me after Paul Roos has coached 46 games for the Dees

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Uh Duh Paul Roos has coached his side twice in AFL games

BM has coached this side 46 AFL games so please come back to me after Paul Roos has coached 46 games for the Dees

Paul Roos won't coach 46 games for the Dees.

 

[Eastdog]

What do people think of Mark Fine's talback show on SEN on Sunday nights after all the round of footy is completed. Used to listen to it a while back but not anymore. I certainly believe he has his favourite callers and he doesn't read out all the texts that are sent to his show.

 

[Bulldog1954]

He also said that on one of his runs, he was being chased by Boyd and knew he wouldn't catch him. When he ran along the city wing (in front of where I sit), 3 players had a go at chasing him, and none got close.

That was in front of me as well, Koby Stevens was the first to chase and just could not move, he was completely spent. Its a joke that we have to play a side with two less days break after going to Perth