List Mgmt. Trade: Allen Christensen traded to Brisbane in exchange for National Draft selection no. 21

[year of the cat]

Pick 21 is a fair price for Bundy. The more I think about it, the more I think 99% of people in this thread are significantly overvaluing him.

Yes, I know this is somewhat of a backflip from my position of yesterday. Intelligent, rational people are capable of changing their mind when they have time to consider their position.

When he slots through his first against us next year, I'll ask you to think about it again..

 

[Scorpio]

Pick 21 is a fair price for Bundy. The more I think about it, the more I think 99% of people in this thread are significantly overvaluing him.

Yes, I know this is somewhat of a backflip from my position of yesterday. Intelligent, rational people are capable of changing their mind when they have time to consider their position.

I disagree that it's a fair price, but in the circumstances it's about as good as we can hope for.

 

[hbk_aus]

So do you think we have handled this situation well?

I think we had no choice in the way we could handle it. We offer him an ultimatum to sign (especially after the verbal agreement) or else and we alienate him into being traded which he now wants to anyway. What else? Throw more money at him just because he has issues? Play hard ball and get nothing for him? I am not sure what else could be done?

 

[SleazySimon]

I can't fathom we would trade a contracted Varcoe after losing Christensen.

But he wants to leave apparently. So we must let him. Player welfare comes first.

 

[hbk_aus]

Fine. So why not say 'deal done'?

Because it clearly isnt yet? Medical?

 

[Claude Balls]

Patful to GWS deal almost done. Brisbane likely to receive p21 as suggested. Wonder if Brisbane will do p5 + p21 for Bundy + p14, would Cats fans be happy with that?

Well considering they are apparently offering 21 on it's own it would be like cancelling that part out and then saying hey while we're at it we'll give you 5 for 14. So yeah, I'd be happy with that one.

Unfortunately won't happen.

 

[Scorpio]

This 'Pick 21' has been on quite a journey...

21. Brisbane Lions (received from Greater Western Sydney for Joel Patfull: pick originally from Gold Coast via a trade in 2012; traded to the Suns by the Brisbane Lions in 2010; originally received by the Lions as compensation for Jared Brennan)

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-09/full-2014-draft-order

 

[Cursed Cat]

It also sends a clear message to other clubs when we negotiate with them in the future. It forces them to give up something more if they know we don't care about sending a player to the PSD. Its called driving a hard bargain - haggling. Something the club isn't interested in. To them good negotiation means being nice in the hope others will be nice back. Maybe I'm a bit old school.
I know I know, player welfare blah blah blah.

I do understand the alternative hard-ball approach has it's benefits SS, but the player welfare 'card' would certainly carry a lot of weight in this day and age - I'm old school too - well, old, if that's what you mean, but that's just the landscape these days.

This may be far-fetched, it may not; but if, for example, a player even mentioned the words 'suicidal thoughts', the club absolutely has it's hands tied and would have everyone from the Player's Association to Caroline Wilson on their back.

A few are dipping their lid to Geelong and their wonderful caring attitudes toward their players, but I suspect that they well knew they were in trouble and had little recourse.

Also I've mentioned a couple of times the potential for further regret when watching the development of young master #21 at another club, probably the very Lions who pinched Bundy from us.

 

[meto]

In which case we are throwing him away for pick 21 - or would you rather we threw him away for nothing?

You're right '09!....it's just so much development into a potential champion doesn't sit well, we'll get aother potential with that pick at least.

 

[Hinkley29]

I disagree that it's a fair price, but in the circumstances it's about as good as we can hope for.[

I don't like quoting myself, but I will copy here what I posted earlier:


This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves on Bundy's value. The details re: Bundy are:

• Quality inside midfielder, who is also creative and can kick goals
• Not great defensively, does not rack up big possession totals, but uses well when he gets it
• Valuable age bracket (5 years in system, nearing prime)
• Not durable, with significant red flags re: future. History of concussions, 2 x back surgery
• Small and slight of build
• Other thank being a seemingly well-liked squad member, no other distinguishing features to speak of (ie. not outwardly identified as having leadership potential, not a team spokesman who gets wheeled out to the media, etc)

Looking at this in isolation, if I was another club, I would be very nervous about paying a high price to get him. He is possibly one concussion, or potentially one more back spasm, away from not being a footballer any more.

Before any of this happened, I was already concerned that we were unlikely to see the best of him, or that he would have a long career due to his durability red flags.


Pick 21 is about right unfortunately.

 

[Hinkley29]

When he slots through his first against us next year, I'll ask you to think about it again..

If he cops another concussion or back injury or his "personal issues" lead him into early retirement then I ask you to think about it again.

Just sayin'

 

[Tackle_happy]

Piss weak by the club.

Can't believe they are still trading varcoe after all this.

Our list has significantly weakened for 2015. And it is mainly a result of our own incompetence.

...

I don't even ...

Incompetence? lol

 

[MajorPayne]

None of those clubs had Stephen Wells recruiting for them.

Yes very true, not really the point I was trying to make though. Was more pointing out the general class difference between Bundy and these others in that range.

 

[footycats007]

At least we have the chance to pick up a good player at 21. But we still are giving him for way under what he is worth. I can't believe all of this to be honest!

 

[Leeds17]

I think player welfare has to come into it but also having a player at your club who doesn't want to be there can be like a cancer in the club rooms.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Pick 21 is a fair price for Bundy. The more I think about it, the more I think 99% of people in this thread are significantly overvaluing him.
.

I still think it's unders, but I can live with it.
Not sure why Gold Coast didn't come to the party with an offer of #15 given Christensen's apparent love of Qld living, it seemed like a bit of a foregone conclusion that Bundy was heading to Brisbane ..

 

[Scorpio]

I don't like quoting myself, but I will copy here what I posted earlier:


This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves on Bundy's value. The details re: Bundy are:

• Quality inside midfielder, who is also creative and can kick goals
• Not great defensively, does not rack up big possession totals, but uses well when he gets it
• Valuable age bracket (5 years in system, nearing prime)
• Not durable, with significant red flags re: future. History of concussions, 2 x back surgery
• Small and slight of build
• Other thank being a seemingly well-liked squad member, no other distinguishing features to speak of (ie. not outwardly identified as having leadership potential, not a team spokesman who gets wheeled out to the media, etc)

Looking at this in isolation, if I was another club, I would be very nervous about paying a high price to get him. He is possibly one concussion, or potentially one more back spasm, away from not being a footballer any more.

Before any of this happened, I was already concerned that we were unlikely to see the best of him, or that he would have a long career due to his durability red flags.


Pick 21 is about right unfortunately.

That's a very cautious assessment. I can see why clubs may take that view given his injury concerns, but you could also take the view that he has massive upside. It's a question of what is more likely - he keeps getting injured, or that all clears up and he stays the "quality inside midfielder who is creative and kick goals" that is your first dot point. He's had a bad run with injuries, but then so do a lot of young players,

Fair value to me, would've been mid-to-late first round.

 

[hbk_aus]

At least we have the chance to pick up a good player at 21. But we still are giving him for way under what he is worth. I can't believe all of this to be honest!

Completely agree with you. Really am sad about the whole thing. The last guy you would expect to want to leave - local boy with family ties to the club, clearly loves the club. Must be some serious issue he is dealing with. Still, his timing couldve been better.

 

[goyoucatters]

Because it clearly isnt yet? Medical?

So say that. Say, "subject to medical, we have agreed with the Lions to trade Bundy to them for pick 21."

Don't announce that we'd accept pick 21 if the Lions offered it.

Makes him sound like he has all the negotiation skills of Kramer from Seinfeld.

 

[SleazySimon]

There is no doubt that Bundy making the decision when he has is just ******. But its just not a black and white sign or die existence. Hence why its called contact negotiations. By your sign or leave you would have shown him the door in May potentially as he didn't sign.

Go Catters

What about straight after the finals? It potentially could have changed their opinion on who they delisted.
Leaving 23 year old uncontracted until trade period, thinking they will definitely want to stay at the club, after they refuse to sign the dotted line all year, is just plain over-confident, risky and naive.
To hear Balme say he was surprised shows he's that out of touch with the player in question and today's player market. It's ok to admit he made a mistake. He's not a god.

 

[thegerman]

I think player welfare has to come into it but also having a player at your club who doesn't want to be there can be like a cancer in the club rooms.

I still think it's unders, but I can live with it.
Not sure why Gold Coast didn't come to the party with an offer of #15 given Christensen's apparent love of Qld living, it seemed like a bit of a foregone conclusion that Bundy was heading to Brisbane ..

He wanted to go to a club with the most $$ up their sleeve. Is that too hard for all of us to consider?
So he basically gets what he wants, and totally rips GFC a new one.

 

[Tackle_happy]

Fighting to the end allows the chance of their being a better result, and yes - it is worth it.

By fighting, they don't have to spend 12 hours a day entirely focused on this. They simply say to Lions "Thanks, but unfortunately 21 will not be accepted. In the interim we are working with other clubs and have advised Allen that he is to pick a few back up options. Please give us a call if/when you have improved your offer and we will be willing to listen"

Then focus on other deals, speak to other clubs, and something may pop up, Bundy may be reasobnably comfortable with something else - you never know.

Instead - Balme (who has shown a sheer lack of understanding when it comes to draft picks values) hands bundy to them on a platter, when there is plenty of time left, without trying to get a better result.

This is why Geelong fans are filthy.

Some of us are filthy yet realistic.

We get what we get based on factors that mean we would struggle to get much else.

If you really think the club has not tried to talk to him about other clubs then you must be seriously deluded. From all reports (we dont have much to go by) it is Brisbane and that's it.

Add on top that pretty much every club would be clued in to the reasons why by now ... then your pool of available clubs to trade him to drops through the floor.

Then there is the chance he goes into the PSD and we get nothing ... well I know what I would prefer.

We would all love for each and every club to throw picks and players at us for Christensen ... I mean the gall of Adelaide not throwing Dangerfield and their top pick to us for him!!!

It just aint gonna happen!

 

[Tackle_happy]

I dunno, I reckon we could get James Hird with pick 79.

We could get James by offering up a bottle of spray tan.

 

[hbk_aus]

So say that. Say, "subject to medical, we have agreed with the Lions to trade Bundy to them for pick 21."

Don't announce that we'd accept pick 21 if the Lions offered it.

Makes him sound like he has all the negotiation skills of Kramer from Seinfeld.

its semantics isnt it? Picking apart everything somebody does just to find possible fault. A throwaway comment about a deal which is obviously agreed.

 

[thegerman]

Because it clearly isnt yet? Medical?

I'd laugh pretty hard if they turn him down due to the medical. A big wet fish in the face to Bundy.