List Mgmt. Trade and F/A 2020 Cont’d

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pies2learn said:
i have nothing against you at all carringbush.....but you have been saying why did we change game plan from 2018 because it worked well....and it did but only because players like sier, de goey, stephenson, whe, JT had best years...it was an outlier year but the quick ball movement is how a classy team should play....i wouldn't think our list has the talent to do that again because the list is full of fit battlers who aren't blessed with any special talent....maybe buckley's vision was to build a blue collar list to swarm and bring pressure....but to my eyes it is ugly stuff, almost like the sydney days when they only existed to strangle teams....and you have been often claiming some or many players are not being developed to maximum potential....i am not sure how you could even possibly know that....what if they are just legitimate hacks as i claim...
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That's exactly what Nathan did, that was his plan, build a grunt team and play a swarm and spread game to outnumber in the contest AND on the outside on the ball win.

Your view that all of those players had outlier seasons is fair speculation, it's also fair speculation they could emulate it again. That is up for debate - I'm just of the view and you seem to state the same, even in this post, that our current game is not optimizing the players on the list we do have. Regardless of how good / bad it is.

How wrong or right I'm in that I don't know, I'm speculating, y'know it's forum to contribute opinions

Seems you're of the view the list is a bottom 6 type and is need of a rebuild, I'd argue it needs a reno, never stated the list does not need addressing. Which is also your speculation, unless of course you have inside info or are some sort of footy list / development guru. Are you?
 
pies 4 ever said:
I agree with much of what you and Pies2learn both said. It all has to start with a vision, that's where Richmond started 10 years ago (3 premierships and 75k members) then you need all the different components working together. That's where, I believe, we have failed, we don't seem to have that common purpose, we had Balme, then Grubby Allen, then got rid of him, etc, etc,. Its been a cluster fcuk for the last few years. We get Beams (for 2 x 1st round picks) we get Wells, Mayne, keep Reid, Dunn, etc., for way too long and overpay players. I recently read that the WCE coach said he did not know who they were recruiting year to year, as its done independently. May be that's also happening at Coll?? I don't understand our recruiting policy or if we even have one, if we have 6 or 7 talls in our 22 (25 to 30%), surely we should recruit in roughly that ratio, but we keep getting mids. It seems to indicate that no one is in overall charge. Recruiters, if left alone, will always recruit Mids and HB flankers as they provide a quick return and they keeps their jobs. Last year was a perfect example, we get 3 smalls and let Riccardi go. Same with coaching, where else would you have a situation where Bucks gets his best mate (Sando) a job or we keep Harvey, when he has applied for every senior coaching role going and cant get one, not even at St Kilda. Shows he is just not good enough. I believe we are still in it if we change, but the changes, as to the way we operate, have to be made NOW!!
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Maybe I should've put it as simply as, it's a combination of everything, list, development, culture etc. etc. pies2learn is that good enough for you?

Thanks Pies4ever.
 

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No SPIN said:
So you would have us believe that players prepare a check list to rate all the above factors before making a decision to move.
Really ? - then how do you explain basket cases like Ess, looking like they are getting Caldwell, Dunkley and a few more.

And what of our guns that have chosen to stay ? Are they dumb and incapable of doing a check list?
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After having seen lots of what you write and your endeavour to forever praise the feeble club....i have often stated on another site and a bit here about collingwood being a retirement home....there are different types of players....some want to be safe with a job to go to - they don't want publicity or attention....some go where better opportunity and money is....many stay in comfort zone and keep pocketing money....some have pride and want to achieve flags, they are very driven to succeed....for them they want a nice financial outcome but they also want flags....the players who come to and stay at collingwood are not driven people, they like to be cozy not having to do too much to get bigger pay than anywhere else as you see by the contracts and terms we offer...they know the club can barely win flags, they know other lists are better....so why do they stay, it is because they are only playing for cash....some genuinely love the game and are driven to win and keep winning....you don't get that hunger in collingwood players...it is a cushy retirement home where they are cozy and pampered.....
 
cakewalk06 said:
No it was not... Murphy clearly has not been up to it... if he was going to become a a genuine top 22 player (or even top 12 player or so) he would have been in there like a shot.. he needs to make a massive improvement and knock the door down. I am hoping with physical maturity that will come because he was still pretty light this year.
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Nope disagree, he's a great player and seen it first hand multiple times, he was perfect for Howes role when he went down, beautiful kick too.
 
Maison said:
Is there any reason why we wouldn't be looking at Dunkley? He's the Tall, Ball Winning midfield we've all been hoping Sier would turn into. Might even spur Sier into action.

If Treloar (our most prolific clearance player) does end up going and the silence is deafening, I think he would be ideal replacement. The reported $650K is great value especially considering the reported contracts of players like Phillips and Landgon. Might even make the much speculated 1st Round Pick Swap with the Doggies a bit easier.

If it takes putting his Brother in the VFL side so be it and SURELY we'd be a better proposition than Essendon.
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I'd be all over Dunkley like a rash
 
Unknown Identity said:
Spoiler alert.
We will miss out on him.

We aren't doing sh*t this trade period.
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I entered this off-season thinking it was just a matter of who we would recruit as a KPF. I would've been very content with any of Jeremy Cameron, Ben Brown, Jesse Hogan, Tom McDonald or Peter Wright. As it stands, it looks like we haven't even entered the race for any of these guys.

Even IF we are comfortable with our Key position stocks...surely we must acknowledge that Mason Cox is 30, as is Jordan Roughead. The ONLY KPP we have coming through is Will Kelly, who projects as an OK talent. Certainly not screaming out to be the next Tom Hawkins.

I understand our salary cap constraints....but this is something our List Management Team should have been working on for the previous 3 years. Every years trade period is hijacked by our salary cap issues, yet this year we have signed Grundy, Moore and De Goey on large contracts. So we can't be surprised that trade week rolls around and then the cap is tight. There clearly hasn't been the pre-planning.

The fact we are now trying to offload one of our better players in a desperate attempt to get the cap back in shape is a real concern.

Anyway, trade week hasn't started yet, so I hold out hope we have something brewing...which is the real reason why we are shopping Treloar around. Let's wait an see.

I'll definitely be dissapointed if we only make a deal for Treloar this off-season and not much else. It shows no list direction. We either need to be going all out for a flag...which means getting rid of quality players or not bringing anyone in is only going to put us further away from a flag. Or we are rebuilding, in which case we need to be even more aggressive with offloading older players
 

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It's a little Hollywood with our blokes. We need to make it more of a family club. This is why the Hawks have success often.
This means treating supporters and players spouses to bbq nights and other events. For a very small fee to cover costs.

Everytime I have visited the Holden centre it feels like a place with no soul. I have had players and past greats walk past me without saying a simple "G'day"..

The shop and cafe staff are not that friendly either..

This is Eddie's fault.. He only thinks business.
We need to get back to basics..

Jurgen Klopp took over as Liverpool manager 4 years ago. They are calling Liverpool the "family club" again. He has brought everyone together and the results are evident..

My 2 cents
 
johncitizen said:
It's a little Hollywood with our blokes. We need to make it more of a family club. This is why the Hawks have success often.
This means treating supporters and players spouses to bbq nights and other events. For a very small fee to cover costs.

Everytime I have visited the Holden centre it feels like a place with no soul. I have had players and past greats walk past me without saying a simple "G'day"..

The shop and cafe staff are not that friendly either..

This is Eddie's fault.. He only thinks business.
We need to get back to basics..

Jurgen Klopp took over as Liverpool manager 4 years ago. They are calling Liverpool the "family club" again. He has brought everyone together and the results are evident..

My 2 cents
Click to expand...
Yeah agree especially the attitude of the shop and cafe staff
 
Carringbush2010 said:
That's exactly what Nathan did, that was his plan, build a grunt team and play a swarm and spread game to outnumber in the contest AND on the outside on the ball win.

Your view that all of those players had outlier seasons is fair speculation, it's also fair speculation they could emulate it again. That is up for debate - I'm just of the view and you seem to state the same, even in this post, that our current game is not optimizing the players on the list we do have. Regardless of how good / bad it is.

How wrong or right I'm in that I don't know, I'm speculating, y'know it's forum to contribute opinions

Seems you're of the view the list is a bottom 6 type and is need of a rebuild, I'd argue it needs a reno, never stated the list does not need addressing. Which is also your speculation, unless of course you have inside info or are some sort of footy list / development guru. Are you?
Click to expand...


well i haven't checked the stats yet but i wouldn't think any of those players have played a better year individually and certainly they haven't together...

i am of the opinion that clubs should be giving everything to win flags because money to drive the game comes from somewhere, like fans....other clubs are building powerful teams, do you not think other clubs are improving their lists.....what is the point of just hovering around 2-14 if you aren't seriously going to win a flag....you believe a little tinkering and this list surely can win a flag but again that is pie in the sky stuff because when a flag doesn't arrive then you can just say it wasn't the right tinkering....it is not a bottom 6 team yet but can be quite quickly if more and more teams go past us.....the cap issues should be fixed by trading guys out like grundy and treloar because they will not bring a flag plus we can start repairing the cap and bring in young talent....yes it is the perfect time to go for a full rebuild now because the cap is stuffed, and the list is boring....so rebuild with skill, speed, flair, and structure so us true fans can feel excited and proud.....
 
stevebbb said:
Wright will end up at Essendon, they'll offer him and the Suns more.

fu** it, I'm in on Hogan, get it done! Keen to share a couple of pingaz with him at Revs after a 6 goal haul in a big win at the G :D
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Beams out, Hogan In

What could go wrong?
 
pies2learn said:
After having seen lots of what you write and your endeavour to forever praise the feeble club....i have often stated on another site and a bit here about collingwood being a retirement home....there are different types of players....some want to be safe with a job to go to - they don't want publicity or attention....some go where better opportunity and money is....many stay in comfort zone and keep pocketing money....some have pride and want to achieve flags, they are very driven to succeed....for them they want a nice financial outcome but they also want flags....the players who come to and stay at collingwood are not driven people, they like to be cozy not having to do too much to get bigger pay than anywhere else as you see by the contracts and terms we offer...they know the club can barely win flags, they know other lists are better....so why do they stay, it is because they are only playing for cash....some genuinely love the game and are driven to win and keep winning....you don't get that hunger in collingwood players...it is a cushy retirement home where they are cozy and pampered.....
Click to expand...

Your creativity is admirable despite its delusion.
If our players were so lacking in desire as you say, then none would have achieved AA status, nor would we need to struggle to retain them because no other team would be interested.
Nor would we see any passion on the field like that seen after the WC game nor would we win as many games.

So you need to put your creativity to work and find a new theory.

I’ll ask the question again. Why have we kept our gun players?
Are they too dumb to see the problems you say players rejecting us are seeing?
 
johncitizen said:
Perhaps our plan all along is to take our chances in the draft. Likely have an eye on a couple of gems. I prefer this to getting se ons hand hacks
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We need to recruit for the now Wright and Hogan have 6 and 7 years of development I them. We get a kid and we will have to put 6 years into them before we can expect anything out of them and by then it’s too late
 
johncitizen said:
It's a little Hollywood with our blokes. We need to make it more of a family club. This is why the Hawks have success often.
This means treating supporters and players spouses to bbq nights and other events. For a very small fee to cover costs.

Everytime I have visited the Holden centre it feels like a place with no soul. I have had players and past greats walk past me without saying a simple "G'day"..

The shop and cafe staff are not that friendly either..

This is Eddie's fault.. He only thinks business.
We need to get back to basics..

Jurgen Klopp took over as Liverpool manager 4 years ago. They are calling Liverpool the "family club" again. He has brought everyone together and the results are evident..

My 2 cents
Click to expand...
Liverpool also aren’t disadvantaged by a salary cap though.
 
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