Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[boydsno1]

So how does the show work if he wins? Does he pick us if we have expressed interest tonight?

 

[Aldo]

So how does the show work if he wins? Does he pick us if we have expressed interest tonight?

If a number of teams have shown interest, then he'll get to pick which team he wants to go to.

Not sure Wagner is the best fit for our team since we have many forwards like him already, but he looks pretty good. If he does choose us, at least we get a bit of an ego boost given that someone actually wants to come to us over other teams.

 

[TedDougChris]

I wouldn't be opposed upgrading Redpath to the senior list.
Also agree with the adding of Fuller to the list of delistings that will happen. Redpath deserves the spot over Fuller. Don't players who get drafted though automatically get a 2 year contract? so he still has next year to go?
I also agree the list needs a total clean out and with the cash we have, and since we most likely won't be this low on the ladder for a while as we should start to go higher up the ladder with our developing players, its time to clean dead weight now. Why ladder prediction matters is pick 5, pick 23, pick 41 has more chance of landing elite talent than say pick 11, 29 and 47. That's if we finish 8th next year. Not to mention we have a good 2 Father son picks in KPP to take.
So we should be able to get some really good kids in this draft, and hopefully get a good trade.
So now is a good as time as ever to get rid of dead wood.
Next couple of years will see the retirement of Morris, Murphy, Boyd and isn't inconceivable that Cooney might not be able to play footy passed 30 years old due to his knee so he could retire. so we are looking at 2 players to retire each year. only need to draft 3 players including rookie promotions.
Clean out now, add good young talent, and then next few years we just top up and hit hard in the finals campaign.

I don't think we need much more building now either. There is no reason we can't play finals next year. Our rebuild is near complete. Add the KPP at each end of ground and we are ready. Needs to be addressed this draft and I have faith it will be.

GO DOGS!!!!

I'd be looking at paying people out for next year to free up spots for recruitment. With the VFL side, we'll get good development all next year for anyone we draft, even if they aren't playing AFL. This is a massive step forward for us.

I'm worried that if we have another ordinary year next year, Morris and Murphy might decide to pull the pin. And, as you say, Cooney is a year by year proposition with his knee. That could/would have us losing our 4 most experienced players at the same time. That, and the desire to get more speed into the midfield is behind my view that Boyd should have gone this year - allowing him to either move to the club of his choice or go into retirement.

The Port comparison to us is interesting. They took 6 years to make finals after 2007, then 7 to make the PF this year. That would suggest that next year for us is just outside the 8 and the year after is in the 8. The only difference is that Ports recruiting in 2008 - 2009 was uncompromised - whereas we finished bloody near last and ended up with Pick 124. Thanks AFL for ****ing everything up.

Another year of gradual improvement next year and I think we'll be an attractive proposition for players looking for a new home - they'll see we are on the rise and want to come along for the ride.

 

[Cudi]

So how does the show work if he wins? Does he pick us if we have expressed interest tonight?

Yeah like Aldo said its up to him. All recruiters vote 3-2-1 and the person with the most votes is guaranteed a contract. Clubs then nominate if they are interested in signing him. Apparently all the clubs then "pitch" to him and then he makes his decision. So it will be interesting tonight if we are one of the clubs that pitch to him. I reckon he will end up at Port Adelaide.

 

[Flash86]

I'd be looking at paying people out for next year to free up spots for recruitment. With the VFL side, we'll get good development all next year for anyone we draft, even if they aren't playing AFL. This is a massive step forward for us.

I'm worried that if we have another ordinary year next year, Morris and Murphy might decide to pull the pin. And, as you say, Cooney is a year by year proposition with his knee. That could/would have us losing our 4 most experienced players at the same time. That, and the desire to get more speed into the midfield is behind my view that Boyd should have gone this year - allowing him to either move to the club of his choice or go into retirement.

The Port comparison to us is interesting. They took 6 years to make finals after 2007, then 7 to make the PF this year. That would suggest that next year for us is just outside the 8 and the year after is in the 8. The only difference is that Ports recruiting in 2008 - 2009 was uncompromised - whereas we finished bloody near last and ended up with Pick 124. Thanks AFL for ******* everything up.

Another year of gradual improvement next year and I think we'll be an attractive proposition for players looking for a new home - they'll see we are on the rise and want to come along for the ride.

When I was writing my previous post, I was thinking about Port.
It was probably around now when Ken Hinkly took over as Port coach. Noone was keen to coach there as they thought it a mission DOOM. however they did have good group of good young players and they have now added to that. Ollie Wines was a great pick up for them, but he wasn't a Cotchin for Richmond when drafted, or a libba, wallis and Dahlhaus in our rebuilt. 2010 afl draft was a great rebuild draft for us with the pick ups of libba, wallis and Dahlhaus.

What I mean when I talking about Richmond and Cotchin and Dogs and Libba, Wallis and Dahlhaus of our 2010 draft, is that Ollie wines was pretty much there last piece of there puzzle. They had wingard, Westhoff, Robbie Gray, Hamish Hartlett. All home grown ready to eplode. Add in wines and trade in some speed in White and they ready to go.
Our difference is we need to add in the KPP players where as they had Schultz and A.Carlisle. But we have Libba, Wallis, Stringer, Bonts, Macrae, Dahlhaus as our key young players ready to drive us up the ladder. Clay smith was in the 2011 draft. I reckon he is almost forgotten a bit due to his injuries but he will be a very important player for us. The fact that he found a niche in the forward line and is a crash and bullocking player, he be handy player to rotate through midfield and forward line.
We not far away from playing finals.
Just need to add our Key positions.
I think they will be addressed this year, and like others have said, if we get Reid from Sydney, it can't be a for a 1st round pick, unless we get Jetta with him.

 

[Roscoe_au]

i hope we do too but so long as it doesn't involve pick 5!

Sam Reid is a fourth string forward at Sydney. Could he play as a focal point for us?

 

[VitalDread]

What about Mason Shaw?

23 goals in 13 games
not sure on points

 

[VitalDread]

Yeah like Aldo said its up to him. All recruiters vote 3-2-1 and the person with the most votes is guaranteed a contract. Clubs then nominate if they are interested in signing him. Apparently all the clubs then "pitch" to him and then he makes his decision. So it will be interesting tonight if we are one of the clubs that pitch to him. I reckon he will end up at Port Adelaide.

it was rumored that he wanted to go to norf
maxwell wants to go to wce

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Further to McCartneys exit interviews that a few have discussed. Jon Ralph was on SEN this morning with KB. He brought up the exit interviews and that a few of our senior players were hit right between the eyes.
He was saying the measured educational Macca seems to be gone, and a more ruthless coach is what the players copped.
Ralphy suggested a few are weighing up their futures as they weren't prepared to be questioned. Boyd being one.
Ralphy was giving Macca a huge tick for telling it how it is, whilst KB stuck up for the players, saying we were seriously thin in our defence and forward line.

 

[boydsno1]

We can be thin up forward and down back still doesn't excuse that most of our senior players had down patches through out the year. Glad Macca set them straight and if the senior players can't handle it then geez, maybe it is time to go.

 

[Roscoe_au]

Further to McCartneys exit interviews that a few have discussed. Jon Ralph was on SEN this morning with KB. He brought up the exit interviews and that a few of our senior players were hit right between the eyes.
He was saying the measured educational Macca seems to be gone, and a more ruthless coach is what the players copped.
Ralphy suggested a few are saying up their futures as they weren't prepared to be questioned. Boyd being one.
Ralphy was giving Macca a huge tick for telling it how it is, whilst KB stuck up for the players, saying we were seriously thin in our defence and forward line.

Nothing wrong with an honest conversation. We finished towards the bottom and the improvements over the last twelve months haven't been earth shattering. Players need to accept responsibilty for most of that performance...they should never be above criticism

 

[Roscoe_au]

Kids willing to give their eye teeth for a spot on a list. If someone tells you that you need to work harder, follow the rules and play a certain way, then you need to be prepared for the criticism if you don't/can't.

Or, you can be a baby about it and stomp off to another club and hope people there treat you like a god.

 

[josh the gent]

Even if not delisted, surely Butcher would come pretty cheap. I'd love to get him in on a 1 year deal, line up a kicking coach with him over Christmas and give him an opportunity to fulfil his potential. Actually pretty similar to Casboult in that he is a great mark, big body, but rough kick of the footy. Would come a lot cheaper though. Is he still under contract? I remember he signed for a pretty penny in order to keep the clubs chasing him away, that could be a factor in Port wanting to move him on also...

Great post.

Maybe 300 pages ago I did some analysis on his career to date, and even discounting his 6 goal game vs us, his number stack up quite well against other 30 game KPFs.

So regardless of poor kicking he still appears pretty likely. Imagine if we fixed his kicking!!!

Can't understand the negative stance a number of people have on here. He would probably only cost a 3rd rounder, or pick upgrade (I.e. his value is currently the lowest it ever has been), and represents a true low-cost/risk, high-reward proposition if ever there was one.

He's also a Vic so convincing should be relatively easier than if an SA lad.

Plus if we draft Wright or McCartin, it would be great if they could develop at Footscray for half a season, taking the pressure off their young shoulders while letting them get some confidence.

We should be all over Butcher.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

The Macca exit interviews story comes back to what I said the other day. Our older players simply haven't stood up the way they needed to to stop us dropping right back to the bottom. It's not like we got rid of every older player to re generate, we kept a lot of them on and I'm not sure they've repaid that faith over the last 2 years. Until these gun kids we have are the ones shouldering the majority of the load and they're strong enough to cop it, we'll stay about 9-13 on the ladder.

 

[F3000]

Further to McCartneys exit interviews that a few have discussed. Jon Ralph was on SEN this morning with KB. He brought up the exit interviews and that a few of our senior players were hit right between the eyes.
He was saying the measured educational Macca seems to be gone, and a more ruthless coach is what the players copped.
Ralphy suggested a few are saying up their futures as they weren't prepared to be questioned. Boyd being one.
Ralphy was giving Macca a huge tick for telling it how it is, whilst KB stuck up for the players, saying we were seriously thin in our defence and forward line.

I listened to that. I like Ralphy, despite the fact he normally carves us up, so this was reassuring. KB is a fkwit so I don't listen to his opinion.
It lines up with the article/interview with Minno in the Sun a few days back. I reckon he copped a fair spray.
Ralphy mentioned McCartney would be fronting the media on another station today to respond to the exit rumours interviews, but I'm guessing because it wasn't SEN, they didn't mention details. Anyone know anything about this? I would like to listen, even though it wont reveal much..

 

[paul scholes]

Why on earth are people even mentioning Butcher?
Do we have vision issues( he CANNOT Kick)
Bartlett showing why he is a failed coach

 

[TedDougChris]

Why on earth are people even mentioning Butcher?
Do we have vision issues( he CANNOT Kick)
Bartlett showing why he is a failed coach

I'm undecided on Butcher. I know everyone says he can't kick, but neither could Jones a few years back. He's at the right age bracket for us, he can clearly mark and get shots on goal - is it just confidence and technique ?? Or is it unfixable ?

Lindsay Thomas was another one a few years back who couldn't kick, but he's turned that around. Pity about some of his other character traits, but there you go....

Is Butcher so bad that a 4th round pick would be a potential waste ? Someone earlier said low risk, high reward - for the right price, give him a year in the VFL and have a look ? Could you plonk him in the square and have Jones at CHF then firing balls into him to mark ?

I just haven't seen enough of him myself to make a fair assessment, but he seems to have some things that we'd like - can we fix the things that are wrong with him ? For me, Pick 80-odd for Butcher seems more attractive than Pick 5 for Sam Reid !!

 

[Dogs Rule]

Further to McCartneys exit interviews that a few have discussed. Jon Ralph was on SEN this morning with KB. He brought up the exit interviews and that a few of our senior players were hit right between the eyes.
He was saying the measured educational Macca seems to be gone, and a more ruthless coach is what the players copped.
Ralphy suggested a few are saying up their futures as they weren't prepared to be questioned. Boyd being one.
Ralphy was giving Macca a huge tick for telling it how it is, whilst KB stuck up for the players, saying we were seriously thin in our defence and forward line.

What amazes me is that they're probably underperforming players who after finishing 14th, think the coach is going to give them a pat on the back and say well done on a brilliant year.

FFS we finished 14th! Not good enough.

Whoever those players are, they need to either take the criticism on board and improve or be shown the door.

We've got to get ruthless and stop the tail wagging the dog.

 

[TBOW]

The Macca exit interviews story comes back to what I said the other day. Our older players simply haven't stood up the way they needed to to stop us dropping right back to the bottom. It's not like we got rid of every older player to re generate, we kept a lot of them on and I'm not sure they've repaid that faith over the last 2 years. Until these gun kids we have are the ones shouldering the majority of the load and they're strong enough to cop it, we'll stay about 9-13 on the ladder.

It was clearly visible too.

I'd say last year Griff & Minno were almost directly responsible for at least half of our wins. This year they tailed of drastically & the slack was taken up by Macrae, Stringer & Bonts.

If Minno & Griff can get back to 2013 form (Griff did the last couple of games
this year) and the kids can continue to exert equal or greater influence we will
improve dramatically.

 

[TedDougChris]

What amazes me is that they're probably performing players who after finishing 14th, think the coach is going to give them a pat on the back and say well done on a brilliant year.

FFS we finished 14th! Not good enough.

Whoever those players are, they need to either take the criticism on board and improve or be shown the door.

We've got to get ruthless and stop the tail wagging the dog.

It's a bit rich if senior players are upset that we are in a development cycle and not winning as much, and the kids are getting lots of games - when it's the senior players who can't seem to kick, mark or chase - and leaving everything up to the kids in the first place....

 

[DognBones]

Why on earth are people even mentioning Butcher?
Do we have vision issues( he CANNOT Kick)
Bartlett showing why he is a failed coach

Agree. Butcher's career stats are worse than Jones. Rather keep Jones than add a very similar type of dubious quality.

 

[1961grandfinal]

Kids willing to give their eye teeth for a spot on a list. If someone tells you that you need to work harder, follow the rules and play a certain way, then you need to be prepared for the criticism if you don't/can't.

Or, you can be a baby about it and stomp off to another club and hope people there treat you like a god.

Are you serious? It is a business, what rubbish about being like a kid, ever been in a job where the boss has NFI? If you ask any questions or query decisions then you are on the way out, irrespective of what you have to offer.

What happens if what you are being told is shite, you can't have an opinion? Seems that the interviews went down well, just like the end to the season, coach now under pressure and lashing out, doesn't sound good for the best people manager in the game.

Very happy that he is feeling this way, await our 2015 performance with interest.

 

[Dale4captain]

Rumour on another thread that we have shown some interest in potential winner of "The Recruit" Johann Wagner and that the interest is mutual. He is a 190cm/90kgs marking forward who his kick of the mark and a nice kick. I just can't see where he would fit in with guys like Crameri, Stringer and Dickson so would be surprised if we end up with him. But he will be a cat B rookie so it is pretty much a free hit if he does choose us.

The one player from the show I'd be interested in is Reece Maxwell. Ex-Basketballer who is a really creative type player and would fit in under Macca as he seems very coachable and a quick learner.

He's a nice kick for goal but pretty poor around the ground. He looks like he could push onto a wing though, as his marking and speed are huge assets. If e could build a tank then I'd be pretty keen to pick him up. Moreland is a Daniel Cross clone. Massive tank and contested beast. Only very slight though, and a short bloke, so I wouldn't see him as appealing to us. Big Foster is 25, I'm not sure we'd go for him but seems like he's had a pretty steep learning curve and adapted pretty well to it.

 

[Butane]

I'd love to give Butcher a crack but anyone suggesting a 3rd or 4th rounder will get it done are surely delusional.

Rarely does a player come without risk and Port would want to have a bit of each way on him in case he turns into a Shultz for another team. On the other side of that we need to take a risk too in case he does work out. It's a tricky trade I reckon.

 

[DogDays]

Can't question his courage, or workrate , his decision making however?? That said he'd be a better insurance option than Young

I'd argue that Austin's best is significantly lower than the best we've seen from Young. delist - please!