Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[Igloo]

Hrovat is contracted until 2016 anyway, so I think the people who want to trade him will be disappointed.
Doubt he want to get rid of a talented young kid with great leadership potential who wants to stay at the club for a mere pick upgrade and something "ok" in return.
We'd be incredibly stupid to do so.

 

[Dogs54]

We need players who use the ball and make good decisions - two things that Hrovat does well.

Agree about keeping Hrovat I'm a big fan and have likened him to Sam Mitchell. I would also like to add he also wins the footy. How many players on out list win their own footy unfortunately not enough.

 

[Gghippo]

Picken + pick #5 to Dees for pick #3? So we can get Wright or McCartin.

Roos is trying to chage a culture. Picken would be a fantastic role model down there and quality servant for their club for the next few years. I think Picken would thrive under Roos defensive game style as well.

 

[Tommycash]

Haven't read a heck of a lot of positives in the last 40 pages. In summary - BMac cracked it at the end of seasons, lots of our middle ranked players want out, no rumours of any decent talls who actually want to join our emerging mids.

Things would want to get a hell of a lot better between now and the draft or its gonna be a long off season and and even longer 2015. Hope its just still people getting over the last few weeks of the season rather than indicative of the mood inside the actual club

Don't despair! As a seasoned watcher of this thread most of this stuff (basically 99.9%) does not come to fruition. I just read it to hear things like "Carlisle to the dogs for their 2nd rounder, lock it in" so I feel happy.

 

[Snake Livermore]

Get Frawley free agent. Get Clark for 3rd rounder. If we had 900k for patton we can achieve this (after swapping Higgins contract for 1st year player contract).

Spine sorted, big bodies in to allow young kpps to develop, 3 picks in top 30 (5, 23, higgins compo), go best available, continue building an unstoppable colossus.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Hrovat is contracted until 2016 anyway, so I think the people who want to trade him will be disappointed.
Doubt he want to get rid of a talented young kid with great leadership potential who wants to stay at the club for a mere pick upgrade and something "ok" in return.
We'd be incredibly stupid to do so.

That is the best time to trade, you don't get as much trade value if they are uncontracted because they can walk for free.
Not saying Hrovat should be traded but if it gets a good deal done I say yes.
I' m not for trading him just for a pick upgrade of two spots, however if it was to get a Jon Patton I would be open to it.

 

[BRWB]

Hrovat is contracted until 2016 anyway, so I think the people who want to trade him will be disappointed.
Doubt he want to get rid of a talented young kid with great leadership potential who wants to stay at the club for a mere pick upgrade and something "ok" in return.
We'd be incredibly stupid to do so.

Guess I'll have to disagree with just about everyone here on this one

FWIW, Clark if fit is way better than 'ok'.

And while Hrovat has shown signs, he is still pretty unproven, and has been very injury injury prone, especially with recurrent quad injuries. And some of his disposal hasn't been brilliant either.

We have an opportunity to set ourselves up for KPFs for the next 10 years. We should take it.

Hrovat and Pick 5, by the way is the most I'd pay, I certainly wouldn't be offering that up front.

 

[josh the gent]

Big diff in standard though. I remember Peter Street dominating VFL but in AFL was ordinary. The standard jump is huge.

When Ayce can dominate a VFL game he will be an acceptable AFL player. He just doesn't dominate games though (well at least none that I've seen).

He has however come a very long way this year, and for the first time in his career I think he might actually have something to offer.

I suspect that by the end of next year (and his contract), most people will want him to stay.

2015 is huge for Ayce.

 

[Super Hans]

Trading Picken might help Melbourne's culture, but it won't do any wonders for ours.

 

[doggies ftw]

Don't despair! As a seasoned watcher of this thread most of this stuff (basically 99.9%) does not come to fruition. I just read it to hear things like "Carlisle to the dogs for their 2nd rounder, lock it in" so I feel happy.

Pretty much too bad the last 40 odd pages have been filled with spuds were interested in and players we supposedly want to trade so it hasn't been too pretty to read.

On the Cordy topic I've never been a huge fan (since he started playing AFL games, always liked him when he was still a 0 gamer with potential!) but this is the first year he's had injury free and it's the first year he's really shown anything whatsoever. Will be on the list next year and turning 24 it's time for him to put in some good performances at AFL level if he wants to stay on the list.

Think he's still got something to give though. He really is great around the ball for such a big guy and I actually think he shows a bit of aggression and intensity which is a good sign.

The one thing that needs major work is his marking but he has started to clunk a few and read somewhere this year he played his first game in his AFL career without any shoulder strapping at all so think he could just come good.

His last VFL game was the best game I've seen him play and he was fantastic, hopefully he backs it up this week. Really needs to demand the ball a bit more forward because he's not a first ruck. Think if we can put some genuine key forwards around him he could really excel as the third tall/ruck because he's really good around goal, starting to clunk a few marks, handy when he pushes up the ground (really good user of the ball) and gives an above average chop out in the ruck also allowing the other talls to stay where they belong, in the forward line. Also one thing I think goes unnoticed, even when I didn't rate him at all, is he's actually a smart team player and is always willing to block and help out the other talls around him by getting in front of their man while they're leading etc which is obviously something we badly need in our forward line.

2015 is a huge year for Ayce and reckon he could just surprise a few.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Pretty much too bad the last 40 odd pages have been filled with spuds were interested in and players we supposedly want to trade so it hasn't been too pretty to read.

On the Cordy topic I've never been a huge fan (since he started playing AFL games, always liked him when he was still a 0 gamer with potential!) but this is the first year he's had injury free and it's the first year he's really shown anything whatsoever. Will be on the list next year and turning 24 it's time for him to put in some good performances at AFL level if he wants to stay on the list.

Think he's still got something to give though. He really is great around the ball for such a big guy and I actually think he shows a bit of aggression and intensity which is a good sign.

The one thing that needs major work is his marking but he has started to clunk a few and read somewhere this year he played his first game in his AFL career without any shoulder strapping at all so think he could just come good.

His last VFL game was the best game I've seen him play and he was fantastic, hopefully he backs it up this week. Really needs to demand the ball a bit more forward because he's not a first ruck. Think if we can put some genuine key forwards around him he could really excel as the third tall/ruck because he's really good around goal, starting to clunk a few marks, handy when he pushes up the ground (really good user of the ball) and gives an above average chop out in the ruck also allowing the other talls to stay where they belong, in the forward line.

2015 is a huge year for Ayce and reckon he could just surprise a few.

A Hale type we hope?

 

[Super Hans]

With all due respect, sticking purely to the draft won't work.

For instance if we draft a 17/18 yr old KP now it's likely to be five years before we know whether he is any good.

A judicious mix of drafting, FAing and trading is what all of the successful clubs do.

Hawks have picked up Hale, Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Gunston (and Spangher and Cheney for depth). Lake and Gunston were first and second best on the ground in their GF winning team last year. They also picked up S Dew who turned the game to help them surprise Geelong.

Sydney have picked up Tippett, Franklin, Kennedy, Shaw, McGlynn (Derickx for depth). Say no more other than in a year they are premiership contenders their trading has netted the Coleman medalist and a Brownlow medal favourite.

What is even more interesting is that both clubs have given up serious talent to enable these pickups to occur. Sydney lost Mumford, Hawks lost McGlynn and Kennedy (a favourite son). They also lost Shotgun Williams.

Port have picked up Polec, Schulz and Monfries for loose change. Geelong has picked up Caddy and Rivers (and don't forget Mooney and Ottens)

Suggesting that trading players out ruins a club's culture is antiquated (see Kennedy). Relying on pure drafting is nonsensical in a corporate age of compromised drafts, FAs and where players are seen as commodities (often by their own choice).

We need to be canny and ruthless in our list management to build a great team and that means using every list building tool at our disposal not just drafting.

I agree. As I said I was talking about more trading our first picks out is what I have an issue with.

It's not like we're sitting on our hands, we've traded for Crameri, Stevens and and Darley (not big names I know, but it's a start). And it sounds like we've tried to get players as well, eg Docherty.

 

[_Mike_]

Big diff in standard though. I remember Peter Street dominating VFL but in AFL was ordinary. The standard jump is huge.

Markovic was another example of that. If Cordy cant make the jump next season then IMO hard decisions need to be made. Cordy may be a good VFL player (See Goodes, Lower, Marko etc) but we shouldnt waste a list space for someone who doesnt cut the mustard.

 

[BRWB]

Picken + pick #5 to Dees for pick #3? So we can get Wright or McCartin.

Roos is trying to chage a culture. Picken would be a fantastic role model down there and quality servant for their club for the next few years. I think Picken would thrive under Roos defensive game style as well.

Melbourne have massive issues with crap ball users, worse than ours. Trading Picken would help our crap ball use though...honestly can't see Melb being interested in Picken.

Sometimes I think people get way to attached to players and their potential. The good clubs sometimes know when to bite the bullet and do a deal. Personally with Clark available, and Melb willing to trade Pick 2 to give access to McCartin or Wright, with a KPD in Frawley up for grabs for free - that time is now. We should be going hard at all of these players, and if it costs a small injury prone, potentially good player in Hrovat, so be it.

 

[_Mike_]

Still not sure on getting rid of Picken, he's a negating tagger and whilst Wallis has been injured Picken has been ok. Do we have anyone in the 2's who can fill that role?

 

[doggies ftw]

A Hale type we hope?

Yeah exactly who I had in mind. Don't get me wrong he still has a long long way to go and if he stagnates again next year well it'd be very hard to justify keeping him on the list. This weekend should tell us a lot as he will mostly be playing forward alongside Redpath and Jones with Campbell back in the ruck.

Also reckon that footscray forward line should be what were trying to emulate. Gorilla leading FF in Redpath, athletic 2nd tall in Jones, ruck/3rd tall in Cordy, medium in Dicko/Grant, smalls in Hunter/Honey/Tutt etc. now just have to get some peptides into em and get them to translate over to AFL level

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I dont know how much weight goes into drafting F/S's because of that link but IMO Cordy has taken a long time to develop. How many other clubs would be as patient as we have been?

I dont have much of an opportunity to watch the 2's at this point in time but can someone who has, tell me from their opinion as to whether or not he is worth keeping on the list, and why?

With this being BigFooty, where you are only as good as your last game. Then he is certainly worth keeping.

 

[Dogsman16]

I agree. As I said I was talking about more trading our first picks out is what I have an issue with.

It's not like we're sitting on our hands, we've traded for Crameri, Stevens and and Darley (not big names I know, but it's a start). And it sounds like we've tried to get players as well, eg Docherty.

Unless its for an absolute gun then yes I'd prefer we keep our first pick. I'd be happy to trade it if it was for a Cameron/Lynch type KPF trade then yeah pick 5 see you later. But thats unlikely so I think we should keep pick 5 and then try and add another 1 or 2 picks in the top 25 - 30 and trade 3/4 for players that we need such as a KPD, outside runner (suckling) etc and have another pick in the 40's so that we can have hypothetically.

Pick 5 Durdin
Pick 25 (2r) trade
Pick 26 (Higgins Compo) trade
Pick 28 (we trade in) then trade out for another player

3rd round Cordy
3rd round pick we trade in Mclean
4th Round Foster

Overall that leaves us with a great mixture of young talent + 3 players who instantly fit into our best 22.

Player that we might need to/should trade out for those picks we can on trade

Grant, Possibly Jones, Cooney/Minson (only 1)
Grant would get us a third and Cooney/Minson maybe a late 20's pick (might have to throw something else in).

Trade Targets (That we could use and would cost 2nd/3rd R picks)
Suckling
Fasolo
Clark
Schoenmakers
De Boer
Sheridan
Bellchambers

Just a few of the names we can look at!

 

[inyourfacedunk]

Still not sure on getting rid of Picken, he's a negating tagger and whilst Wallis has been injured Picken has been ok. Do we have anyone in the 2's who can fill that role?

Picken has become a shut down defender of small forwards until Wallis got injured. Not just a tagger.

 

[Mofra]

I agree, but if you have two contested marking beasts up fwd, precise delivery becomes less of an issue. Also I would think good tall KPFs are much harder to find than midget reasonable ball users.

Scores from turnovers (anywhere on the ground) are one of (if not the) biggest source of goals at AFL level. Our ball use is sub-par. We can't afford to trade out the few players who use it well.

Are people seriously arguing we should get rid of good ball users because we might, maybe get a tall forward (ignoring the fact we haven't drafted a good one for 20 years)?

We need more good kicks of the football, not less.

 

[timtamWB]

I just read some people think we should trade Roughead.

Urge to kill... rising.

Seriously, people bemoan our lack of KPP's, but all of a sudden they're all very quick to jump onto trading out some of our best KPP's such as Roughead or Talia. It makes no sense.

In summary, people are stupid.

 

[Gghippo]

Still not sure on getting rid of Picken, he's a negating tagger and whilst Wallis has been injured Picken has been ok. Do we have anyone in the 2's who can fill that role?

Possibly Jong?!

I love Picken, but you have to give something to get something. Pretty much 90% of the posts on here are merely pipe dreams, along the lines of sell low and buy high.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Does anybody actually have solid info that Jones is leaving or is it all just speculation?

 

[Mofra]

Does anybody actually have solid info that Jones is leaving or is it all just speculation?

Solid.
Practically cleaned out his locker already.

 

[Wizard17]

Speculation caused by an article in the Hun

Does anybody actually have solid info that Jones is leaving or is it all just speculation?