List Mgmt. Trade & Draft Discussion 2023 post season - Picks Reid,30,40,49,66 (Bush league)

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dinnaz said:
Glass, Mackenzie, 2015-2018 Schofield - were good at defending.

Bazzo plays like Barrass, except with Gov and Barrass he can't do that and is relegated to FB lockdown. I know he's still underweight but doesn't have the body on body nous or mongrel to compete.
He's no bust but has a long long way to go before he's good enough to be a player deserved of a spot in every AFL best 22
Click to expand...
Shit take sorry. The kids got mongrel coming out of the whazzoo and if you reckon he’s got no nous I have NFI how you can rate Barnett so highly
 
bh90210fan said:
s**t take sorry. The kids got mongrel coming out of the whazzoo and if you reckon he’s got no nous I have NFI how you can rate Barnett so highly
Click to expand...
*Rucks suck and most didn't even get a pen license

I'm a fan of Barnett as an athletic Grundy/ style of ruck but with a bit of pace who can take a hanger.
Probably only reaches Lycett's level and is weak in the body like English, but there's a lot to work with considering actual good 200cm+ players don't come around often and you can get away without being the complete package.
 

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Realistically first year rucks are like a newborn deer. Ignore anything, make no assumptions.
Just because NN was a freak doesn't mean everyone else after will be.

I remember Max Gawn being my cheapo supercoach bench ruck never playing until he was in his early 20s. You don't think much of it until one day they're the best
 
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Wooshaaaa said:
Totally disagree with 'can take a risk with R2 R3'.

We cannot afford anymore missteps at the draft.

As the draft gets closer I've gone cold Collard and Moir. I would be happy with our last 2 picks but likely they're not there by then.

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Click to expand...

Haven't read past this post yet.

Expecting to see the V-word in response.

Edit... I am disappointed to not see any vanilla references.
 
Last edited:
DRK_13 said:
Im fairly confident Bazzo and HEdwards will be fine after a few preseasons in the weight room.
No concerns there. They both read the ball well and are fairly mobile.
Click to expand...

Harry Edwards is heading into his sixth season on an AFL list. Not sure how many more preseasons he should need at this point.
 
twce13 said:
collard risk is overplayed imo. kid has a heap of talent. The whole unprofessional side of things is one of those snowball rumours imo.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%, he wouldn't have got to where he is without a certain amount of professionalism - pure talent won't cut it at state
U18s level.
 
Collards form is patchy at best. How does it stack up to Jarrod Cameron at the same age?
 
dinnaz said:
Glass, Mackenzie, 2015-2018 Schofield - were good at defending.

Bazzo plays like Barrass, except with Gov and Barrass he can't do that and is relegated to FB lockdown. I know he's still underweight but doesn't have the body on body nous or mongrel to compete.
He's no bust but has a long long way to go before he's good enough to be a player deserved of a spot in every AFL best 22
Click to expand...
Bazzo cannot be judged on last season.

After what happened in his life he did well to get back to playing at all.

He showed a fair bit in his first year, last year was a free hit.
 
archiemoses said:
Collards form is patchy at best. How does it stack up to Jarrod Cameron at the same age?
Click to expand...
He’s got Jarrod Cameron written all over him. More importantly, we have Long, Ryan, Brockman, Cripps as well as Hewett and (hopefully) Reid to rotate through HFF not to mention our penchant for playing a 3rd tall forward like Maric (or previously Waterman). Surely we have other priorities if he’s not a 40+ free hit.
 

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eaglevision said:
He’s got Jarrod Cameron written all over him. More importantly, we have Long, Ryan, Brockman, Cripps as well as Hewett and (hopefully) Reid to rotate through HFF not to mention our penchant for playing a 3rd tall forward like Maric (or previously Waterman). Surely we have other priorities if he’s not a 40+ free hit.
Click to expand...
The latter point is the point. We don't need another small forward. We need mids and defenders.



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Wooshaaaa said:
The latter point is the point. We don't need another small forward. We need mids and defenders.



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Click to expand...
Agreed. I hope we take 3 mids (Reid, one inside and one outside with elite speed) and a KPD. Otherwise 2 mids, KPD and a running HBF Hardeman/ARoberts type I’d be pretty happy with too. The forward line needs nothing extra this year if we are taking Reid.
 
Rowan18 said:
I haven't been wowed by him but I'm hoping last year was just blowing the rust out. I still think he'll follow the Shep trajectory and find good form when moved to half back.
Click to expand...
Hope he does go well this year.

Going back to the 2021 draft I do often wonder why they passed up Matt Johnson who was touted as a top 10 pick and eventually slid to 21.

He is going to be a serious player.
 
I'd be pretty happy keeping all our draft picks as is and going something like the below:

1. Reid
23. ZZ / Charlie Edwards
37. Collard / Cooper Simpson
58. Bodie Ryan / Moir
SSP. Ruscoe

Clear some more dead wood at the end of the year and head into 2025 with an exciting list of up-and-comers.
 
dinnaz said:
Chesser 👎
Bazzo 👎
Hough 👍
Barnett 👍

1 bust with 3 maybes IMO. Role players but not top end that will carry the team. We are just about missing a whole next gen spine and while our mids are AFL quality they aren't top tier.
Click to expand...
You are losing credibility here my friend

Bazzo was our 3rd pick and either late second or early 3rd and you are calling him a bust

We obviously see developing talls very differently
 
Phas said:
I'd be pretty happy keeping all our draft picks as is and going something like the below:

1. Reid
23. ZZ / Charlie Edwards
37. Collard / Cooper Simpson
58. Bodie Ryan / Moir
SSP. Ruscoe

Clear some more dead wood at the end of the year and head into 2025 with an exciting list of up-and-comers.
Click to expand...
Sadly I reckon Collard is comfortably gone by then. He needs to be taken with our second if we're that keen.
 
Mop said:
Sadly I reckon Collard is comfortably gone by then. He needs to be taken with our second if we're that keen.
Click to expand...
Still not that keen myself on Collard that early. After the u18 championships he was ranked around 40 to rookie.

Is a high risk high reward player in a position that is not of the greatest need list wise.
 
Burning questions

With the draft less than a week away and the will we or won’t we take Reid debate seemingly over, these are my burning questions going into November 20/21 :

1) Who presents the club jumper to Reid on draft night?

With the AFL reportedly said to be encouraging clubs to incorporate past players more on draft night we have a few options.

Our recently retired captain and new assistant coach, Luke Shuey, who played 248 games after being recruited from Victoria could do it. Another recent retiree and club icon, Nic Naitanui would also be a good choice to hand over the baton as the clubs most marketable player.

Either would be fine and deserving of the honour

But one past player stands out. The symbolism of Ben Cousins handing Reid a West Coast Eagles jumper would be something else, especially if it has #9 already printed on the back. Cuz has been steadily getting his life back in order and having him representing the club in such an important moment in the clubs rebuild would be fantastic for the club, it’s supporters and Ben.

Make it happen West Coast

2) When does Dan Curtin get taken and does he slide far enough for us to make a play for him?

So much has been written about how keen we are on Curtin and how we needed to trade pick 1 to get him it seems odd he might slide outside the top 5. North might take him as might the Hawks who have paraded their interest but they both have other more likely targets. Bulldogs don’t need another tall so Melbourne loom as his first realistic landing spot

If he gets past them, maybe GWS listen to a trade offer using our F1 but pushing their top 10 pick into next year might not interest them unless it’s a lopsided offer in their favour. Ditto for noted fair traders Geelong and Essendon

Adelaide with pick 10 are the one club with an incentive to chase our F1 and the collateral to make a trade attractive enough, if Curtin slides that far. It’s unlikely, but with the likes of Caddy, Leake, Wilson, Windsor and O’Sullivan generating interest maybe those clubs go local, or near local in Leake’s case leaving the WA lad waiting for a home

Until his name gets called out, the unthinkable of Curtin joining Reid at West Coast will remain a tantalising possibility

3) How proactive will we be in improving our draft hand, if at all?

When the final siren of the GF announced Collingwood as premiers, our draft hand was 1,19,33,38,52,57 and 75. Thanks to Norths freeloading and overly generous FA compensation picks generally it now stands at 1,23,37,58 and 81 after we traded out our R3 and R4 picks to Hawthorn (what were 38 and 57 but became 44 and 63). Our 2nd pick likely blows out to 28 on draft night courtesy of academy and F/S selections

For a side that finished last it’s a somewhat underwhelming draft hand

Traditionally, WCE haven’t traded up in the draft preferring to split picks for multiple later picks and/or future picks with mixed success. This year though might be the year our recruiting team get aggressive and use future picks to improve our position if opportunity presents

I’ve already mentioned the possibility of using our F1 to get Curtin above. But if that doesn’t happen, or maybe even if it does, our F2 could be used with 23 to get us into the back end of R1. Or maybe on its own to get a very late R1 or early R2 pick.

Or we could use a combination of picks including our F2 or F3 to get one of those early 2nd picks Gold Coast are holding.

Or we could stay true to type and split what we’re assuming will be the first pick of the second night. Essendon with picks 31 and 35 look to be the most beneficial trade partner if we split 23, giving us those picks with 37 to use bearing in mind Gold Coast hold 24,26,27,32,36 and 38 that will be burned in bid matches

Or….

There’s a myriad of potential trades if the club wants to be proactive but as a minimum another pick in that very even range of the draft between 20 and 40 thereabouts should be targeted to go with the 23 and 37 we currently hold

Four picks inside 40 for the second year running after 3 in 2021 plus 2 No.1 MSD picks is building a decent tank of potential talent for the future

4) Will we pull the trigger on any high risk/high reward selections?

Three names have regularly been discussed that loom as very much boom or bust picks. We could go all three with the picks we have or none at all

a) Lance Collard
A West Coast NGA player who started the season as a realistic chance of going later than pick 40 where we could match a bid. Has ended the season as a potential late R1 pick who may not even be on the board for our second pick of the draft. Are we that keen we trade up into R1 to get him or do we hold our nerve and wait to see if he gets through night 1 undrafted. Do we even draft him then at all

b) Zane Zakostelsky
Like Collard his stocks have risen late on the back of a BOG performance in the colts GF and an impressive combine. Another KPD on the list would be handy and ZZ Top, whilst a raw talent, fits the bill. Should still be on the board for our 2nd pick which would be a slight reach given there’s a good chance of him lasting until our 3rd. Reach or run the risk of missing out.

c) Ashton Moir
Unlike the first two mentioned, Moir has gone backwards in 2023 from being a possible top 5 talent to a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick. A hip injury partially explains his poor year but there’s also questions on his application/commitment which may or may not be fair. Strong possibility he’s available at our 3rd pick where on talent he’d be a steal but he’s a risk when there’ll be other less talented but safer options. If he’s still there at our 4th pick, which is possible, then he’s probably worth a swing

There’s every chance that we have the opportunity to draft all three using our picks 23,37,58 (wherever they ultimately land) but that’s a definite boon or bust result. If all three hit their potential, along with Reid, it becomes a momentum shifting draft.

Or we play safe, some may say smart, and take players with a lower ceiling but a higher probability of reaching it. And make no mistake there’ll be good options at each of those selections

Moreso than Reid, those three picks will define our draft, making night 2 the far more interesting night for us

5) Do we use our 5th pick?

We are guaranteed to use our first 4 picks in this draft. That will leave two list spots open, at least one of which will be on the rookie list, maybe both

Pending any live trades, as mentioned earlier, our 5th pick which nominally is 81 but will likely be in the mid to high 50’s.

It’s been reported (by Mark Duffield) that our recruiters have identified approximately 55 players they consider draftable. So it’s likely our 5th pick would s getting towards the end of that list and given that we also have the first pick of the rookie draft we could hold until then to take a 5th player

We also have NGA players, Oscar Hine-Baston and Coen Livingstone, who will likely be there in the rookie draft to potentially fill the last two spots

Or we could leave one spot open to find a SSP option like Trey Ruscoe post draft, which would be unlikely if we use 5 picks in the main draft

I’m hoping we find another pick in the 15-40 range giving us 4 under 40 plus a roll of the dice with wherever pick 58 lands (high 40’s likely). Take a chance on Moir if he’s there or go someone like Clay Hall as a meat and potatoes type



In a week’s time we’ll know the answers to all of the above but until then those are the questions I’ll be pondering
 
Keys said:
Burning questions

With the draft less than a week away and the will we or won’t we take Reid debate seemingly over, these are my burning questions going into November 20/21 :

1) Who presents the club jumper to Reid on draft night?

With the AFL reportedly said to be encouraging clubs to incorporate past players more on draft night we have a few options.

Our recently retired captain and new assistant coach, Luke Shuey, who played 248 games after being recruited from Victoria could do it. Another recent retiree and club icon, Nic Naitanui would also be a good choice to hand over the baton as the clubs most marketable player.

Either would be fine and deserving of the honour

But one past player stands out. The symbolism of Ben Cousins handing Reid a West Coast Eagles jumper would be something else, especially if it has #9 already printed on the back. Cuz has been steadily getting his life back in order and having him representing the club in such an important moment in the clubs rebuild would be fantastic for the club, it’s supporters and Ben.

Make it happen West Coast

2) When does Dan Curtin get taken and does he slide far enough for us to make a play for him?

So much has been written about how keen we are on Curtin and how we needed to trade pick 1 to get him it seems odd he might slide outside the top 5. North might take him as might the Hawks who have paraded their interest but they both have other more likely targets. Bulldogs don’t need another tall so Melbourne loom as his first realistic landing spot

If he gets past them, maybe GWS listen to a trade offer using our F1 but pushing their top 10 pick into next year might not interest them unless it’s a lopsided offer in their favour. Ditto for noted fair traders Geelong and Essendon

Adelaide with pick 10 are the one club with an incentive to chase our F1 and the collateral to make a trade attractive enough, if Curtin slides that far. It’s unlikely, but with the likes of Caddy, Leake, Wilson, Windsor and O’Sullivan generating interest maybe those clubs go local, or near local in Leake’s case leaving the WA lad waiting for a home

Until his name gets called out, the unthinkable of Curtin joining Reid at West Coast will remain a tantalising possibility

3) How proactive will we be in improving our draft hand, if at all?

When the final siren of the GF announced Collingwood as premiers, our draft hand was 1,19,33,38,52,57 and 75. Thanks to Norths freeloading and overly generous FA compensation picks generally it now stands at 1,23,37,58 and 81 after we traded out our R3 and R4 picks to Hawthorn (what were 38 and 57 but became 44 and 63). Our 2nd pick likely blows out to 28 on draft night courtesy of academy and F/S selections

For a side that finished last it’s a somewhat underwhelming draft hand

Traditionally, WCE haven’t traded up in the draft preferring to split picks for multiple later picks and/or future picks with mixed success. This year though might be the year our recruiting team get aggressive and use future picks to improve our position if opportunity presents

I’ve already mentioned the possibility of using our F1 to get Curtin above. But if that doesn’t happen, or maybe even if it does, our F2 could be used with 23 to get us into the back end of R1. Or maybe on its own to get a very late R1 or early R2 pick.

Or we could use a combination of picks including our F2 or F3 to get one of those early 2nd picks Gold Coast are holding.

Or we could stay true to type and split what we’re assuming will be the first pick of the second night. Essendon with picks 31 and 35 look to be the most beneficial trade partner if we split 23, giving us those picks with 37 to use bearing in mind Gold Coast hold 24,26,27,32,36 and 38 that will be burned in bid matches

Or….

There’s a myriad of potential trades if the club wants to be proactive but as a minimum another pick in that very even range of the draft between 20 and 40 thereabouts should be targeted to go with the 23 and 37 we currently hold

Four picks inside 40 for the second year running after 3 in 2021 plus 2 No.1 MSD picks is building a decent tank of potential talent for the future

4) Will we pull the trigger on any high risk/high reward selections?

Three names have regularly been discussed that loom as very much boom or bust picks. We could go all three with the picks we have or none at all

a) Lance Collard
A West Coast NGA player who started the season as a realistic chance of going later than pick 40 where we could match a bid. Has ended the season as a potential late R1 pick who may not even be on the board for our second pick of the draft. Are we that keen we trade up into R1 to get him or do we hold our nerve and wait to see if he gets through night 1 undrafted. Do we even draft him then at all

b) Zane Zakostelsky
Like Collard his stocks have risen late on the back of a BOG performance in the colts GF and an impressive combine. Another KPD on the list would be handy and ZZ Top, whilst a raw talent, fits the bill. Should still be on the board for our 2nd pick which would be a slight reach given there’s a good chance of him lasting until our 3rd. Reach or run the risk of missing out.

c) Ashton Moir
Unlike the first two mentioned, Moir has gone backwards in 2023 from being a possible top 5 talent to a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick. A hip injury partially explains his poor year but there’s also questions on his application/commitment which may or may not be fair. Strong possibility he’s available at our 3rd pick where on talent he’d be a steal but he’s a risk when there’ll be other less talented but safer options. If he’s still there at our 4th pick, which is possible, then he’s probably worth a swing

There’s every chance that we have the opportunity to draft all three using our picks 23,37,58 (wherever they ultimately land) but that’s a definite boon or bust result. If all three hit their potential, along with Reid, it becomes a momentum shifting draft.

Or we play safe, some may say smart, and take players with a lower ceiling but a higher probability of reaching it. And make no mistake there’ll be good options at each of those selections

Moreso than Reid, those three picks will define our draft, making night 2 the far more interesting night for us

5) Do we use our 5th pick?

We are guaranteed to use our first 4 picks in this draft. That will leave two list spots open, at least one of which will be on the rookie list, maybe both

Pending any live trades, as mentioned earlier, our 5th pick which nominally is 81 but will likely be in the mid to high 50’s.

It’s been reported (by Mark Duffield) that our recruiters have identified approximately 55 players they consider draftable. So it’s likely our 5th pick would s getting towards the end of that list and given that we also have the first pick of the rookie draft we could hold until then to take a 5th player

We also have NGA players, Oscar Hine-Baston and Coen Livingstone, who will likely be there in the rookie draft to potentially fill the last two spots

Or we could leave one spot open to find a SSP option like Trey Ruscoe post draft, which would be unlikely if we use 5 picks in the main draft

I’m hoping we find another pick in the 15-40 range giving us 4 under 40 plus a roll of the dice with wherever pick 58 lands (high 40’s likely). Take a chance on Moir if he’s there or go someone like Clay Hall as a meat and potatoes type



In a week’s time we’ll know the answers to all of the above but until then those are the questions I’ll be pondering
Click to expand...

You have to think that Ben Cousins will do the honours!

I wouldn’t be surprised if we look to get GCs pick 24. This would give us a shot at getting 2-3 of Collard, Roberts, ZZ & Moir, or even trading up again to pick later in the first round.


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