List Mgmt. Trade & Draft Discussion 2023 post season - Picks Reid,30,40,49,66 (Bush league)

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Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

Keys you may like to sticky this post & move it to the start of the thread (so the sticky post doesn't rotate if a post is deleted before it), or copy it to your draft thread if you have one.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

When it results in a 3 win team having 1 pick inside the top 30 who also cannot match bids on a mid 2nd round rated player then the system needs to be burnt to the ground and started over

To be fair the academy picks would have only pushed us back to pick 24 (f/s would have moved us back to 26 but i don't mind f/s). I'm more pissed at all the handouts and free agency "compo" that are all used by the AFL to fiddle with the draft as they set fit.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

To be fair the academy picks would have only pushed us back to pick 24 (f/s would have moved us back to 26 but i don't mind f/s). I'm more pissed at all the handouts and free agency "compo" that are all used by the AFL to fiddle with the draft as they set fit.

Yeah. North priority picks directly cost us access to Collard.

 

[JackOutback]

When it results in a 3 win team having 1 pick inside the top 30 who also cannot match bids on a mid 2nd round rated player then the system needs to be burnt to the ground and started over

That isn't the academies alone, that's F/S too. It needs tweaking, not burning to the ground.

Edit: And Norf, of course.

 

[ZergMinion]

briztoon probably wouldn't be recommending we split our first rounder for the 3rd time in 4 years if finishing last got you picks 1, 19 and 37, instead of 1, 30 and 53 (I think we traded that last one for Brockman but don't quote me).

Clearly the current system is in a deep hole.

Anyone got a side by side list of academy players drafted with matched bids showing whether they'd be lost to the game if not for the academies? I'd be interested to see how much is a rort vs how much new talent is introduced to the system.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Academies are a rort, but kind of want Hodge’s kids to play for Brisbane for the lols

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Pretty much been stated but the main issue is the clubs run the academies not the AFL.

They have self interest in developing top end talent for themselves not necessarily growing the talent pool across the state

 

[Farang83150]

Do I think it’s fair?

Yes.

It was all done within the rules the AFL has laid out.

Hey Obeanie1 I never said the rules were fair.

SO Sam McClure

 

[MKMatty]

May be on my Pat Malone here, but I have no problem with GC and GWS academies currently. Both clubs are new, in non-AFL heartlands and have never won a premiership (in GC's case, they've never been competitive). Sure, it might seem like it's taking the piss this year, but let's reassess when either club achieves the stated goal (be it premierships or heaving membership lists). Sydney and Brisbane might be another issue (though it wasn't that long ago that Brisbane were a basket case for the better part of a decade).

The rules could use some tightening up and there were some good suggestions earlier (needing to use a pick in the same round, for example) but I'm not getting too worked up by it.

I just think the 20% discount on clubs bidding should go. If Northern clubs want someone in their academy they pay full price, end of.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

The very purpose of the NGA is to develop and foster talent. Any intervention from clubs in the development of young players should improve them on and off the field, most of them need more help lifting standards than anything else (to compete with private school kids etc). With the exception of Collard who would have wound up a speculative back-end pick, I actually doubt any of the other Eagles NGA prospects would have made it to the AFL on their own.

Some academies are increasing the pool of players better than others.

Westcoast
Baker, Deward, Hansen, Collard, Livingstone, Humphries

Fremantle
Henry*, Motlop, Walker, Williams, Draper, Edwards,

 

[shooshka]

I just think the 20% discount on clubs bidding should go. If Northern clubs want someone in their academy they pay full price, end of.

That and recalibrating the points value is probably the easiest and simplest fix.

Surely there is enough data to take all pick-only trades from the past 10 years to work out the correct value attached to each. I.e. the difference between 10 & 11 is actually pick 31 (calculator has it at 68).

Escalate the points significantly at the top end as trades are very rare.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Obeanie1]

Hey Obeanie1 I never said the rules were fair.

I haven’t called the Lions academy a rort. I have said it’s an advantage. One we have failed to take advantage of, as we don’t fund or staff our academy to the extent of the other 3 teams.

I wasn’t around here when Darcy or Daicos came through, so I don’t know if there was similar outrage.

Pretty certain you have said it's a rort but will take the benefit for as long as the AFL provides it.

And that other sides should be unhappy with the current arrangements.

Wonder how many years in finals and playing in grand finals the Lions will need before the gravy train is reduced?

A link to finals played and ladder positions needs to be brought in. As well as finishing bottom 4 for more than two seasons.

 

[random260]

Very happy with our draft moves.

The reach for hall had to be done. Firstly we likely got spooked it seems every team wants to be campaigners and take WA player just before us.

So picking hall was a non negotiable. The pressure of reid would have been too immense by himself. Both hall and Reid can share the load of adding mid improvement instead of a singular person. A F3 thrown was a good move because we couldn't risk him being picked before us.

As for Archer Reid that's fine. Phil mentioned KPF can switch to kpd easily so thats nice to hear. Would have picked zz instead of Harvey Johnston

But otherwise perfect draft.

Collard/Moir are we sure we were going to pick them at 30? I would have raged since we need a KPF/kpd in a tall draft. And hall was going to be locked at 38 regardless of Collard/Moir since we needed to pair Harley with him 100%.

 

[Ishmael_]

I would just ban matching in the top 20, or at most 1 match in the top 20.

Keep the recruiting zones/criteria as they are. That's the advantage for the non-football states. There's still enough incentive there for clubs to develop players.

You may develop a gun that you won't have exclusive access to, but you might get another hidden, high potential, second rounder.

 

[uncleoatmeal]

A bit of a tangent but there are two players who seem to have a lot of backing of this forum (or more than i'd expect) in Culley and Petrucelle.

I'll admit Petch surprised me with some of his midfield moments this year, but largely I see him as a clogger with potential trade value.
I'm not as critical on Culley as he very young but I'm concerned whether his noticeable lack of pace will prevent him from making it.

If we're going to start targeting opposition players were going to need draft capital to play with and Im looking at potential casualties.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Brainstorming here. Random thoughts



The AFL could partially solve 2 problems with one solution.

They could introduce a sliding scale according to ladder position, finals appearances in last 3 yrs and some other criteria....as to what point you're eligible to bid on an NGA.

Ie
Finish 16- 18- get to match any NGA bid
Finish 10-16 - match after top 10
Finish in finals - match after first round.

This would then also provide a form of compensation for teams struggling at the bottom, rather than dolling out random compo picks.


With this example eagles and norf could have matched for Collard and sanders.

Suns would only be able to match for last 3

Freo would've got Edwards

Dogs would've got lual

Etc





On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[briztoon]

What were you saying then?

I was saying Gold Coast trading their pick 4, and turning it in multiple later and future picks was fair.

Nothing to do with the “why”.

I wonder which Victorian teams are having a whinge?

Bulldogs, North, St Kilda and Freo benefited from trading up with Gold Coast.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

A bit of a tangent but there are two players who seem to have a lot of backing of this forum (or more than i'd expect) in Culley and Petrucelle.

I'll admit Petch surprised me with some of his midfield moments this year, but largely I see him as a clogger with potential trade value.
I'm not as critical on Culley as he very young but I'm concerned whether his noticeable lack of pace will prevent him from making it.

If we're going to start targeting opposition players were going to need draft capital to play with and Im looking at potential casualties.

Please don’t delist Jai Culley, even in your mind thanks

 

[briztoon]

This is insane. Not all talent is equal.

Thinking our F1 is worth giving up for Curtin may be very different to thinking it's worth giving up for a Nate Caddy (note players are just used as an example, not commenting on their actual rating) for example depening how players are rated.

I never said trade F1 for Curtain or Caddy.

I have said split it. That means get multiple picks for it.

If you read ITK posters here, they have clearly said WC offered their F1 for both Curtin or Caddy.

That’s WC recruiting team believing that was a worthwhile trade. Not me or any other random online, but the actual people running your club.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Collard/Moir are we sure we were going to pick them at 30? I would have raged since we need a KPF/kpd in a tall draft. And hall was going to be locked at 38 regardless of Collard/Moir since we needed to pair Harley with him 100%.

Reckon we would have matched St Kilda if we could have, and I daresay we would have taken him (Collard) at 30 if available.

Will be fun to track the careers of Collard and A. Reid.

 

[briztoon]

Opportunity of a lifetime, Mop - think you might be able to coax something out of this guy!

lol I’ve been on record as saying I don’t believe in the academies as they are, as they go against a fair competition.

But there are so many inherent unfair advantages in this competition, that I believe we should be maximising any advantage we can, and if that means supercharging our academy, then do it.

Unfortunately Brisbane puts minimal effort into their academy, and any kid who succeeds from it, succeeds on the back of themselves, their parents and junior club, not because of the academy.

 

[briztoon]

Pretty certain you have said it's a rort but will take the benefit for as long as the AFL provides it.

And that other sides should be unhappy with the current arrangements.

Wonder how many years in finals and playing in grand finals the Lions will need before the gravy train is reduced?

A link to finals played and ladder positions needs to be brought in. As well as finishing bottom 4 for more than two seasons.

I’m hoping the AFL don’t take it away until after Tas comes in.

 

[eaglevision]

Very happy with our draft moves.

The reach for hall had to be done. Firstly we likely got spooked it seems every team wants to be campaigners and take WA player just before us.

So picking hall was a non negotiable. The pressure of reid would have been too immense by himself. Both hall and Reid can share the load of adding mid improvement instead of a singular person. A F3 thrown was a good move because we couldn't risk him being picked before us.

As for Archer Reid that's fine. Phil mentioned KPF can switch to kpd easily so thats nice to hear. Would have picked zz instead of Harvey Johnston

But otherwise perfect draft.

Collard/Moir are we sure we were going to pick them at 30? I would have raged since we need a KPF/kpd in a tall draft. And hall was going to be locked at 38 regardless of Collard/Moir since we needed to pair Harley with him 100%.

This is spot on mate. I really hope the club believes we’ve got a good shot at Busslinger and/or Taylor which would explain leaving ZZ and Murphy on the board. I think another 2 years drafting for need and getting rid of the dead wood and in 2026 we’re right up there in the finals mix with the best young list in the AFL set for multiple tilts at the flag. If we can make the next two years look something like this I’ll be absolutely stoked (don’t pay too much attention who’s inside/outside etc that’s just a guide). Obviously scope for variation if good performances if the younger guys come on or the older blokes are cooked.

2024: 1R elite speed and disposal outside mid, trade 2R For Busslinger, trade/delist blokes in red for as many points as possible to go with our 4R to match a bid for Champion (hopefully NGA rules are changed) and bring in Baker via FA.

2025: Sam Taylor via FA then draft for need.

 

[EagleMan87]

I was saying Gold Coast trading their pick 4, and turning it in multiple later and future picks was fair.

Nothing to do with the “why”.

I wonder which Victorian teams are having a whinge?

Bulldogs, North, St Kilda and Freo benefited from trading up with Gold Coast.

Just because it's in the rules doesn't make it fair.

Hence all the discussion about changing those rules that's cropped up after the draft.

 

[Ghossein]

A bit of a tangent but there are two players who seem to have a lot of backing of this forum (or more than i'd expect) in Culley and Petrucelle.

I'll admit Petch surprised me with some of his midfield moments this year, but largely I see him as a clogger with potential trade value.
I'm not as critical on Culley as he very young but I'm concerned whether his noticeable lack of pace will prevent him from making it.

If we're going to start targeting opposition players were going to need draft capital to play with and Im looking at potential casualties.

Culley was in cracking form before he did his knee, won a rising star nom in round 6 IIR.

Somewhat agree RE Petch but his form in the midfield definitely warranted an extension. Looking back I think developing him as a forward was a mistake, one I think has now been identified.

Also interesting that you're worried about Culley's lack of pace but also don't rate our fastest player.

 

[uncleoatmeal]

Please don’t delist Jai Culley, even in your mind thanks

Not delist so to speak, but look to try and get value for him.