List Mgmt. Trade & Draft Discussion 2023 post season - Picks Reid,30,40,49,66 (Bush league)

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Dylan82 said:
Agreed.

The club should be trying to gain a pick in order to manufacture an additional selection before 40.

Hawthorn's pick 46 should be available. They may return the favour for our generosity in the Brockman trade.

Definitely needs to be asked in regard to F4.
Click to expand...

Hi Dylan, what has your Brisbane connection said about our drafting?
 
eaglevision said:


Meanwhile over at The West things are getting a little out of hand…
Click to expand...

It's fine. Harley himself said he loves to play in big crowds.

That's why he said he wants to go to big clubs.

Also it triggers Fremantle supporter whom can't get over nic Nat apparently being on the west front back every day.
 
briztoon said:
Do I think/believe the academy system is fair?

I don't believe in the academies as they exist today are fair, and that only 4 northern clubs have priority access to the kids.

I don't believe how the AFL draft played out this year is fair. Not just because of the 4 Gold Coast kids, but also because of the North PP's and the existence of compensation picks.

However, the AFL as a competition isn't fair.

The VaFL is real.

ALL the traditional football states have inherent advantages that don't exist in Northern states.

I've said on our board, that as long as we have an academy, we should milk it for all it's worth. * the Vics, and by extension, * the rest of the competion.

Unfortunately, Brisbane has put the barest effort in to running it's academy, and any success that's come through it, as one parent put it, is in spite of the academy's involvement. It's pretty well known that the Lions didn't want Harris Andrews in the academy, but his club coach spent 12 months begging the academy look at this kid. Andrews only spent his draft year in our academy.

Back in 2018 I looked at all the kids that had come through the GC and Lions academies, and with the exception of Jack Payne and two Sudanese kids, every other kid and/or their family came from Vic or WA. These were kids who grew up with the game because of their family.

My view back in 2018, was the academies weren't growing the game, they were just picking from a limited pool.

Since then, I'll give Gold Coast their due, that club has done a power of work to grow the game on the Gold Coast and Cairns. They have got the sport in to all the State Schools in their immediate zones, where several schools now have their own AFL academies.

Football up here is tribal/cultural.

The Private schools, particularly the top tier GPS private schools play Rugby Union, and the old school boys from my generation are fighting tooth and nail to keep it as the only "native" code in GPS schools.

The vast, vast majority of born and bred QLDer's follow Rugby League. All the Brisbane State Schools play League, it's the working class game, with certain schools having elite League programs. It's the game that parents sign their kids up to for club football. It's the game all my nephews play.

Then there's soccer, dominated by the post war European immigrant nationalities and more recently African and Asian immigrants.

Finally there's AFL. You can almost guarantee that the majority of kids playing AFL, come from families that have come from WA, SA and Vic. There are pockets of local AFL families that have 3 or 4 generations of history in the game locally, but they are a distinct minority.


Sorry I have to go... I had a fair bit more I wanted to add in to this.
Click to expand...

Tl;dr
 
briztoon said:
Do I think/believe the academy system is fair?

I don't believe in the academies as they exist today are fair, and that only 4 northern clubs have priority access to the kids.

I don't believe how the AFL draft played out this year is fair. Not just because of the 4 Gold Coast kids, but also because of the North PP's and the existence of compensation picks.

However, the AFL as a competition isn't fair.

The VaFL is real.

ALL the traditional football states have inherent advantages that don't exist in Northern states.

I've said on our board, that as long as we have an academy, we should milk it for all it's worth. * the Vics, and by extension, * the rest of the competion.

Unfortunately, Brisbane has put the barest effort in to running it's academy, and any success that's come through it, as one parent put it, is in spite of the academy's involvement. It's pretty well known that the Lions didn't want Harris Andrews in the academy, but his club coach spent 12 months begging the academy look at this kid. Andrews only spent his draft year in our academy.

Back in 2018 I looked at all the kids that had come through the GC and Lions academies, and with the exception of Jack Payne and two Sudanese kids, every other kid and/or their family came from Vic or WA. These were kids who grew up with the game because of their family.

My view back in 2018, was the academies weren't growing the game, they were just picking from a limited pool.

Since then, I'll give Gold Coast their due, that club has done a power of work to grow the game on the Gold Coast Cairns. They have got the sport in to all the State Schools in their immediate zones, where several schools now have their own AFL academies.

Football up here is tribal/cultural.

The Private schools, particularly the top tier GPS private schools play Rugby Union, and the old school boys from my generation are fighting tooth and nail to keep it as the only "native" code in GPS schools.

The vast, vast majority of born and bred QLDer's follow Rugby League. All the Brisbane State Schools play League, it's the working class game, with certain schools having elite League programs. It's the game that parents sign their kids up to for club football. It's the game all my nephews play.

Then there's soccer, dominated by the post war European immigrant nationalities and more recently African and Asian immigrants.

Finally there's AFL. You can almost guarantee that the majority of kids playing AFL, come from families that have come from WA, SA and Vic. There are pockets of local AFL families that have 3 or 4 generations of history in the game locally, but they are a distinct minority.


Sorry I have to go... I had a fair bit more I wanted to add in to this.
Click to expand...
The forum isn’t going anywhere. Feel free to add it on later.

Unfortunately while you make solid points about the game itself in the state of Queensland… it doesn’t really relate to how the academy impacts the AFL as a whole.

The two can exist, just not an the absolute unfair example that exists now.
GC have used their leg up. Sydney don’t and haven’t needed that leg up for years and still got it. GWS might be on the cusp.
 
briztoon said:
Do I think/believe the academy system is fair?

I don't believe in the academies as they exist today are fair, and that only 4 northern clubs have priority access to the kids.

I don't believe how the AFL draft played out this year is fair. Not just because of the 4 Gold Coast kids, but also because of the North PP's and the existence of compensation picks.

However, the AFL as a competition isn't fair.

The VaFL is real.

ALL the traditional football states have inherent advantages that don't exist in Northern states.

I've said on our board, that as long as we have an academy, we should milk it for all it's worth. * the Vics, and by extension, * the rest of the competion.

Unfortunately, Brisbane has put the barest effort in to running it's academy, and any success that's come through it, as one parent put it, is in spite of the academy's involvement. It's pretty well known that the Lions didn't want Harris Andrews in the academy, but his club coach spent 12 months begging the academy look at this kid. Andrews only spent his draft year in our academy.

Back in 2018 I looked at all the kids that had come through the GC and Lions academies, and with the exception of Jack Payne and two Sudanese kids, every other kid and/or their family came from Vic or WA. These were kids who grew up with the game because of their family.

My view back in 2018, was the academies weren't growing the game, they were just picking from a limited pool.

Since then, I'll give Gold Coast their due, that club has done a power of work to grow the game on the Gold Coast and Cairns. They have got the sport in to all the State Schools in their immediate zones, where several schools now have their own AFL academies.

Football up here is tribal/cultural.

The Private schools, particularly the top tier GPS private schools play Rugby Union, and the old school boys from my generation are fighting tooth and nail to keep it as the only "native" code in GPS schools.

The vast, vast majority of born and bred QLDer's follow Rugby League. All the Brisbane State Schools play League, it's the working class game, with certain schools having elite League programs. It's the game that parents sign their kids up to for club football. It's the game all my nephews play.

Then there's soccer, dominated by the post war European immigrant nationalities and more recently African and Asian immigrants.

Finally there's AFL. You can almost guarantee that the majority of kids playing AFL, come from families that have come from WA, SA and Vic. There are pockets of local AFL families that have 3 or 4 generations of history in the game locally, but they are a distinct minority.


Sorry I have to go... I had a fair bit more I wanted to add in to this.
Click to expand...

Really good post, like the perspective and yeah agree with the general unfair competition line of thinking - to be honest I'm not that bothered with a club like Brisbane getting a bit of a leg up in that area given the general challenges (maybe an unpopular opinion on here).

Also can see the logic of the AFL wanting to strangle out rugby as much as it can and a bit of willingness to forgo competition equality to get there. Don't love the taste of it but see the reasoning.

I think there's something that bothers me more about the unbalance for the Swans specifically. (They're my second team so not a matter of me just disliking them). Maybe it's that they've squeezed out some really pointy-end picks who were always going to be drafted academies or not, maybe it's how they comboed it with the COLA when they did, and also just have the general vibe (without knowing my stuff) that they're not really facing the same retention/grassroots culture challenges given the city itself/so much crossover with families from Victoria etc. Their supporter consistency (if not numbers) + finances/sustained success also seem more comparable to the big footy state clubs then the other 3.

I think as you say, if you have an advantage you may as well milk it, and they've milked it fantastically, beyond what the purpose of those systems was for. I know there's no world in which the AFL go "hmm ok we've let the leash out a bit too far for them but the others are fine, let's remove it for them alone" but it's them where the balance feels most off.

Brisbane have brought in Andrews (fantastic player but only bid on late in the second round from memory), Hipwood in the late teens pick wise and then a bunch of no-names if I'm correct? Which as you say probably means they haven't milked it enough but on balance seems way more of a palatable amount.

GWS unlike Sydney are still super new and unestablished and haven't yet settled their revolving doors of players so makes more sense for them.

And the Suns are such a basket case located in Australia's Bermuda triangle for sporting franchises, would shudder to picture where they'd be without all their assistance.

The biggest issue for me is the access for the Suns this year (and the dumb North Melbourne assistance) pushes the other picks back so much that it screws over us and other clubs who also just need the natural assistance of a more balanced draft to rebuild themselves. I like the suggestions from other posters of needing to burn picks closer to the bid rather than a bunch of meaningless late ones (so clubs below aren't shoved down the order as much)

- and also like the suggestions of other clubs being able to bid earlier on academy prospects based on finishing position - in a sense it being assumed that the 4 rugby state clubs need the academy assistance, as do the bottom teams on the ladder each year, with access diminishing for higher ranked teams outside the northern 4 etc. Still not fair fair but more in the spirit of it
 

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DanWCE said:
Can't put my finger on it but get the feeling Baz might depart. I would really hope not after last season but then I don't know if he's ever going to turn it on as a KPF and we just grabbed Flynn for ruck duties with Jamo and Barnett in the sheds plus now Reid and Livo both 200+.

He should have currency if he wants to move on and we've been able to extract value before by developing and then selling talls.
Click to expand...

I been spouting this one for a while. Not quite sure what it is either, but i 100% expect Bailey is going to get traded back to Vic at some point.

Possibly an English FA acquisition next offseason, possibly Flynn coming on board to take over the main ruck role this year, or possibly a down year in 2024 for him after failing to adapt/impress as a FWD again, i've got a feeling it'll happen. These days, after the season he's just had in 2023, he's going to kick up quite the fuss if the FWD thing isn't working out by mid year and Flynn is doing his job as a ruck and Bailey gets dropped to the WAFL.

Definitely a watch this space for mine.
 
Mop said:
The forum isn’t going anywhere. Feel free to add it on later.

Unfortunately while you make solid points about the game itself in the state of Queensland… it doesn’t really relate to how the academy impacts the AFL as a whole.

The two can exist, just not an the absolute unfair example that exists now.
GC have used their leg up. Sydney don’t and haven’t needed that leg up for years and still got it. GWS might be on the cusp.
Click to expand...
Might add to it tonight.

Ideally there shouldn’t be any academies. For the “good of the game”, there should be fully AFL funded CTL teams based in NSW and QLD that compete with the Victorians.
 
Kegs15 said:
Really good post, like the perspective and yeah agree with the general unfair competition line of thinking - to be honest I'm not that bothered with a club like Brisbane getting a bit of a leg up in that area given the general challenges (maybe an unpopular opinion on here).

Also can see the logic of the AFL wanting to strangle out rugby as much as it can and a bit of willingness to forgo competition equality to get there. Don't love the taste of it but see the reasoning.

I think there's something that bothers me more about the unbalance for the Swans specifically. (They're my second team so not a matter of me just disliking them). Maybe it's that they've squeezed out some really pointy-end picks who were always going to be drafted academies or not, maybe it's how they comboed it with the COLA when they did, and also just have the general vibe (without knowing my stuff) that they're not really facing the same retention/grassroots culture challenges given the city itself/so much crossover with families from Victoria etc. Their supporter consistency (if not numbers) + finances/sustained success also seem more comparable to the big footy state clubs then the other 3.

I think as you say, if you have an advantage you may as well milk it, and they've milked it fantastically, beyond what the purpose of those systems was for. I know there's no world in which the AFL go "hmm ok we've let the leash out a bit too far for them but the others are fine, let's remove it for them alone" but it's them where the balance feels most off.

Brisbane have brought in Andrews (fantastic player but only bid on late in the second round from memory), Hipwood in the late teens pick wise and then a bunch of no-names if I'm correct? Which as you say probably means they haven't milked it enough but on balance seems way more of a palatable amount.

GWS unlike Sydney are still super new and unestablished and haven't yet settled their revolving doors of players so makes more sense for them.

And the Suns are such a basket case located in Australia's Bermuda triangle for sporting franchises, would shudder to picture where they'd be without all their assistance.

The biggest issue for me is the access for the Suns this year (and the dumb North Melbourne assistance) pushes the other picks back so much that it screws over us and other clubs who also just need the natural assistance of a more balanced draft to rebuild themselves. I like the suggestions from other posters of needing to burn picks closer to the bid rather than a bunch of meaningless late ones (so clubs below aren't shoved down the order as much)

- and also like the suggestions of other clubs being able to bid earlier on academy prospects based on finishing position - in a sense it being assumed that the 4 rugby state clubs need the academy assistance, as do the bottom teams on the ladder each year, with access diminishing for higher ranked teams outside the northern 4 etc. Still not fair fair but more in the spirit of it
Click to expand...
I wanted to add last night, that if the status quo remains largely in place, with some minor tweaks, West Coast will need some assistance before Tasmania is introduced in to the competition.

At a minimum, unfettered access to your academy kids for a short period of time.
 
AsterixTheGaul said:
Jagga or Josh for my liking

The top 10 are mainly mids and a chance to add the ball magnet
Click to expand...
Haven’t seen enough of these kids (yet), we need one more outside mid with pace and disposal efficiency. Who’s the pick in that regard out of the top 5-6 kids? Smith followed by O’Sullivan?
 
AsterixTheGaul said:
Jagga or Josh for my liking

The top 10 are mainly mids and a chance to add the ball magnet
Click to expand...

How do you rate our wing stocks? I wonder if we need to spend a good pick replacing Gaff. We seem to have made a decent effort grabbing big bodied contested mids. Id love some outside polish. Someone that will run up and back all day, uses it beautifully off both sides, a death by thousand cuts operator. Who knows they may already be on the list and just haven't played yet
 
6285sutto said:
Just saw this article from AFL.COM.AU.
www.afl.com.au

Eye on the future: 10 draft prospects to watch in 2024

Callum Twomey looks ahead to the best prospects heading into the 2024 season
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
Who do (can we) take next year assuming bottom 3 finish?
Interesting (expected) that no WA prospects listed in the top 10.
Click to expand...
Lot of water to go under the bridge, but at this stage I'd rank Jagga Smith and Finn O’Sullivan as best two prospects. Moraes had a huge finish to the year and is an excellent mid/fwd prospect. He did his MCL in futures game on G, but already recovered.
Smilie is the other, big unit midfielder like Tom Green. Played CHB for futures games and was excellent, versatile player.
Draper small zippy mid with great skills.

I'm stunned GWS didn't accept our offer...
 
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