List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2018/2019 - Part 2!

[Pragmatic Shill]

I wonder if he's getting the 1m per year that he's worth? Would have to tempt him surely.

He will be next year. His contract is heavily backloaded, meaning he will be one of the highest paid players in the league next year (and however many seasons left on the contract).

It's one of the reasons why everyone is saying GWS has salary cap issues.

 

[sr36]

He will be next year. His contract is heavily backloaded, meaning he will be one of the highest paid players in the league next year (and however many seasons left on the contract).

It's one of the reasons why everyone is saying GWS has salary cap issues.

Not sure if I believe you, unless of course you tell me that SOS was involved. Young star-studded team backloads a contract so that it comes to full value when their whole list is predicted to be peaking and most of their important players would expect to be at maximum salary value.

 

[Mukesh]

He's good on the lead and good at ground level, but averages less than one contested mark per game. He's a good player, but I reckon we've got Stephenson and Degoey who will be able to do what Cameron does. He's not the big aerial target that many want us to chase.

Am ambivalent about Jeremy. He plays like a half forward flanker who likes to jump rather than a key forward... Is he a good player ? For sure. Would he make us better ? Not so sure. Am also not sure he is a total team player...

 

[Gaben]

Have a look at the contested marking stats. Massive difference in Riewoldt's favour.

At the same age it's 1.4 to 1.3 a game...? Contested marking is overrated anyway if you are beating your direct opponent on the lead and kicking goals that way. I'd take Jeremy's inside 50 non-contested marks over Mason Cox's contested ones.

 

[partypie]

Would he pair up with Cox?

Would have been better a few years back bringing the ball to ground when we had Dick pushing up hard to get front and centre inside the arc...

 

[sr36]

At the same age it's 1.4 to 1.3 a game...? Contested marking is overrated anyway if you are beating your direct opponent on the lead and kicking goals that way. I'd take Jeremy's inside 50 non-contested marks over Mason Cox's contested ones.

That's a massive cherry picking of stats to try to make them look similar in terms of marking. The most contested marks Cameron has taken in a year is 26 - which was in his first year, so he isn't showing improvement in this regard. He averages less than 1 a year. How have to go back to 2008 to find a year where Riewoldt took less than Cameron's best ever contested marking year. Cameron's a very good player and obviously he's miles above Cox, but he offers a very similar threat to the blokes we already have.

 

[Kirby]

I still really like Wayne King.

Yeah, but he sometimes gets a bad rub

 

[unplugged]

He will be next year. His contract is heavily backloaded, meaning he will be one of the highest paid players in the league next year (and however many seasons left on the contract).

It's one of the reasons why everyone is saying GWS has salary cap issues.

Interesting if true. The sort of player that they could get rid of to solve all of their salary cap issues, instead of losing multiples to get the fix, ie Shiel, Kelly and whomever else.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Not sure if I believe you, unless of course you tell me that SOS was involved. Young star-studded team backloads a contract so that it comes to full value when their whole list is predicted to be peaking and most of their important players would expect to be at maximum salary value.

Quite a number of different journos have run with that, from different outlets, so I would be inclined to believe it.

 

[sr36]

Quite a number of different journos have run with that, from different outlets, so I would be inclined to believe it.

Fair enough. It just seems moronic.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Quite a number of different journos have run with that, from different outlets, so I would be inclined to believe it.

These are the same journos who all year have been saying that we are also facing salary cap pressure and would not be able to afford to keep both De Goey and Moore, whilst also making contradictory claims that we were making a "massive" offer for Lynch.

The media will say what they want - and IMO, until the AFL gets to a point where contracts are transparent, they could just be making all of this up and no-one would be any the wiser. There is no way to ever really confirm whether any reported contract figures are accurate.

Who know's where Cameron's salary is at.
I would be more inclined to believe that the Giants would've heavily front-loaded it, given that he was the first in a series of big name players coming up for free agency for them and I doubt they were under much cap pressure at that stage.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

That's a massive cherry picking of stats to try to make them look similar in terms of marking. The most contested marks Cameron has taken in a year is 26 - which was in his first year, so he isn't showing improvement in this regard. He averages less than 1 a year. How have to go back to 2008 to find a year where Riewoldt took less than Cameron's best ever contested marking year. Cameron's a very good player and obviously he's miles above Cox, but he offers a very similar threat to the blokes we already have.

Is it not also "cherry picking of stats" to be making this all about his contested marking?
Cameron has kicked over 200 goals in his past 4 seasons, and has two 60 goal seasons in the past 6. He has shown that he can play as the primary marking target himself, or can play as a complement to guys like Patton. He's also spent time playing in defence.
I agree he is not your traditional contested marking forward - but I think the game is moving away from those guys. More and more you want guys who are gonna be running and creating space. Yes it is nice to have the option to have the gorilla who can clunk it in the pack- but the more efficient option is having guys who get out on the lead.

The fans and media have been frothing at the prospect of Tom Lynch for the last 18 months. If I had a choice between them? I would take Cameron every single day of the week.

 

[sr36]

Is it not also "cherry picking of stats" to be making this all about his contested marking?
Cameron has kicked well over 200 goals in his past 4 seasons, and has two 60 goal seasons in the past 6. He has shown that he can play as the primary marking target himself, or can play as a complement to guys like Patton. He's also spent time playing in defence.
I agree he is not your traditional contested marking forward - but I think the game is moving away from those guys. More and more you want guys who are gonna be running and creating space. Yes it is nice to have the option to have the gorilla who can clunk it in the pack- but the more efficient option is having guys who get out on the lead.

The fans and media have been frothing at the prospect of Tom Lynch for the last 18 months. If I had a choice between them? I would take Cameron every single day of the week.

The reason I'm focussing on contested marking is because the theory is that we need a 'proper' kpf to complete our forward line. I'm using those stats to show that Cameron isn't that player. He's not a big threat in the air. He's undoubtedly a very good player, but I don't think his style should be a major target for us, due to us already having Degoey, WHE and Stephenson - even Elliott. In terms of launching at a ball in a pack, WHE and Elliott do it better and more often both in terms of marking and bringing it to ground.

 

[Scodog10]

The reason I'm focussing on contested marking is because the theory is that we need a 'proper' kpf to complete our forward line. I'm using those stats to show that Cameron isn't that player. He's not a big threat in the air. He's undoubtedly a very good player, but I don't think his style should be a major target for us, due to us already having Degoey, WHE and Stephenson - even Elliott. In terms of launching at a ball in a pack, WHE and Elliott do it better and more often both in terms of marking and bringing it to ground.

Preaching to the converted here, but the club has hitched themselves to Cox as that player.

The problem is he just isn’t that good, don’t get me wrong as a contest option he’s ok, but because he struggles to hold his ground, kick beyond 40 metres and gain separation he’ll always be a 1-1.5 goal a game bit part type.

He’s taken a grand total of 5 marks across the two finals and just 1 I50. Compare that to the likes of Weideman, Kennedy and McDonald and it is nowhere near good enough. IDK, perhaps we’ll make a late charge at Lobb, but otherwise I don’t see this being resolved in the short term after we missed on Lynch.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Can we still land IQ and Kelly if we get May?

It seems getting all 3 may be a huge stretch, so I would appreciate the thoughts of the "points" experts.

I understand we may well take 4 Academy/FS
Qyaynor (HB/Mid)
Kelly (KP)
Wraith (HB/Wing)
Bosenavualagi (Small forward)

 

[Horaceg]

Would have been better a few years back bringing the ball to ground when we had Dick pushing up hard to get front and centre inside the arc...

Maybe push Ball in there too!

 

[Horaceg]

I understand we may well take 4 Academy/FS
Qyaynor (HB/Mid)
Kelly (KP)
Wraith (HB/Wing)
Bosenavualagi (Small forward)

Geez the last one may trip a few commentators up

 

[Schraderbrau]

Nah... Goldsack mauled him. Shit bloke too.

yeah but he could be our shit bloke

 

[HeathySure]

These are the same journos who all year have been saying that we are also facing salary cap pressure and would not be able to afford to keep both De Goey and Moore, whilst also making contradictory claims that we were making a "massive" offer for Lynch.

The media will say what they want - and IMO, until the AFL gets to a point where contracts are transparent, they could just be making all of this up and no-one would be any the wiser. There is no way to ever really confirm whether any reported contract figures are accurate.

Who know's where Cameron's salary is at.
I would be more inclined to believe that the Giants would've heavily front-loaded it, given that he was the first in a series of big name players coming up for free agency for them and I doubt they were under much cap pressure at that stage.

having seen a lot of players contracts you would be shocked to see what some players are getting. the media underestimate., But generally the media are clueless

 

[sr36]

Preaching to the converted here, but the club has hitched themselves to Cox as that player.

The problem is he just isn’t that good, don’t get me wrong as a contest option he’s ok, but because he struggles to hold his ground, kick beyond 40 metres and gain separation he’ll always be a 1-1.5 goal a game bit part type.

He’s taken a grand total of 5 marks across the two finals and just 1 I50. Compare that to the likes of Weideman, Kennedy and McDonald and it is nowhere near good enough. IDK, perhaps we’ll make a late charge at Lobb, but otherwise I don’t see this being resolved in the short term after we missed on Lynch.

Considering the discussion, the funny thing is that I'm not even a believer in the theory of needing a gun 'proper' kpf. I'm happy with Degoey, (or WHE, Stephenson, Kirby, Elliott in the future) as our deep forward who is incredibly dangerous when we get it in quickly and he has some space and is also very dangerous at ground level when it's a slow entry with congestion. We still need a big bloke who can pose enough threat to not be zoned off and to bring it to ground when we kick it long to a pack. Ideally he also clunks a few big marks, but nobody in the league clunks enough big marks in this situation to make a huge difference. Considering his ability to bring it to ground and the fact that he does compete at ground level, I'm comfortable with Cox playing this role and I don't think it takes that much imagination to picture him becoming more than just a role player. I think he's carrying a leg injury - earlier in the year he showed some potential of fulfilling the role as more than just a role player, but he's got to make some pretty significant progress in the areas of weakness that you've mentioned.

I'm more just saying that if you want a bloke who is a threat in the air and launches dangerously at high balls - don't look at Cameron - he doesn't play that way. The goal Cameron kicked against us was a classic Cameron goal. Aerial ball, he misread it and got nowhere near it and wasn't really part of the contest that brought it to ground. Nonetheless the ball spilled to ground, he recovered quicker, tracked it beautifully and got on the end of it.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/09/20/report-demons-have-met-with-steven-may/

Happy for the Demons to chase May.
I’ll settle with Sam Frost, thanks.

 

[Roverjg]

Just feel Roughy Cox and Miocheck all won't work so do we put Miocheck down back?

Looking at it like that you are probably right. I have the impression that Miochek is a better forward than back. However, what would we have done if Lynch had come to us?

 

[golazo]

Could we get Wingard?

Imagine our side fully fit with him and May

 

[AmericanMustard]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/09/20/report-demons-have-met-with-steven-may/

Happy for the Demons to chase May.
I’ll settle with Sam Frost, thanks.

So you're happy for a club which looks like we will be competing with for a few years who I believe already has a little bit more talent than us to get stronger in a key posts and we take the guy they replace?

FWIW I don't think it would be anything of note, doesn't surprise me that they would meet with May, what club wouldn't? Would seem a strange move for Melbourne to go after him given their list though, key posts aren't exactly something they desperately need. If they have a million to go after someone like May, they should be investing that into Gaff and it would almost make them favorites for the flag next year if you asked me. Which you shouldn't because I really have no idea.

 

[AmericanMustard]

Could we get Wingard?

Imagine our side fully fit with him and May

Rather pour a million down the drain than pay him the money hes reportedly after!