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AFLW 2024 - Round 8 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency Part 9
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I differ on this. We want to avoid the 2024 scenario, where we had no Taranto, Hopper, Prestia for a stretch all at the same time. Then you are putting McAuliffe into a midfield led by Dow and propped up by Baker, Graham or whoever was available. Next year the likes of Baker and Graham probably won't be available. We don't want to be putting prime 18yo mids into that situation or anything remotely like it.
The Hawks cleaned out Mitchell and O'Meara, but look a bit closer. They have big bodies in there and the youngest is 22yo, not 18-19. When those guys were really young they did have Mitchell and O'Meara.
If we pick up a cast off mature mid(who will obviously be flawed) and Prestia, Hopper, Taranto are all fit, then the new guy probably sits in the VFL. No problem, not like he will be on a massive contract. In the seemingly inevitable scenario 1-2-3 of our mature mids are injured, we need something better than Dow, McAuliffe, Baker, Graham for the new gun(s) to play with. A big strong body with a tank would be helpful for a start.
Yze will be building a team that functions. Not picking his best 4 mids regardless of the mix. We were robbed of all our depth due to cap constraints, but now that is released we can afford to have some mature depth on the list. These are not players we are building a team around. They are players we can call on to fill a role or two when we have absences, to keep the team functioning and stop the finely built youngsters from being thrown to the wolves.
Think Ryan Lester at Brisbane. He has snuck 200 games in meanwhile they have been desperately trying to recruit replacements who keep getting injured, Adams, Payne, Doedee, Gardiner.
I am not sure who the right guys are, but Koschitzke is starting to look like half decent key forward/2nd ruck depth, we tried with Naismith and sadly he did the ACL but we will want another back up first ruck, we are probably ok for key defence depth with Young, Blight. But in the other key area, centre square mids, we need a better depth structure, this year has shown that. We need to be able to play the gun youngsters to advantage and rest them when required, and we need someone with some maturity to be able to cover for Taranto/Hopper/Prestia when they are not fit.
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exactly this he is still very young and I back Morris to get more out of him than the drugs
Kinnear Beatson is very good at what he does, not doubting that at all. But he and Wells from Geelong are lauded by all and sundry, yet since 2010, how many flags have their respective clubs won? Swans one, Cats two. And Beatson most certainly gets a huge benefit from being a Northern Academy club recruiter, although they have both plucked some gems from late selections, as have other clubs including ours.
Like I said, they are both good at their jobs but give me Blair Hartley looking after our list with a half decent recruiting team at his behest.
tigs2010
Pick 1...
Blair has been great. FJ did a good job too. Clarke left a lot to be desired. Toce doesn't have a lot of picks as the main man but they're looking mostly promising. Not too many recruiters will have a crop of 5 all play first season. Very encouraging for us.
Surely our club is now wiser and will not pick any 'cast-off' midfielders and are preparing to bring in gun midfielders in this draft.
Ok, list his last 9 years first round picks where he didn't have the benefit of academy priority. In fact, I will happily do it for you:
2023 Will Green(16) Caiden Clearly(24)
2022 Jacob Konstanty(20)
2021 Angus Sheldrick(18)
2020 Logan McDonal(4)
2019 Dylan Stephens(5)
2018 Nil
2017 Matthew Ling(14)
2016 Oliver Florent(11) Will Hayward(21)
2015 Nil
v Richmond
2023 Nil
2022 Nil
2021 Gibcus(9) Brown(17)
2020 Nil
2019 Dow(21)
2018 Collier-Dawkins(20)
2017 Higgins(17) Coleman-Jones(20)
2016 Nil
2015 D Rioli(15)
Richmond took one single pick below pick 15, and it was pick 9. Swans had picks 4, 5, 11, 14 below pick 15.
Richmond had 3 that are either good players(Rioli) or look like being good players(Gibcus, Brown) 2 we got our money back on(Higgins, CCJ) and 2 failures, Dow, RCD, from 7 picks.
Swans from 9 picks have 4 I wouldn't know enough about to make a judgement(Sheldrick, Konstanty, Cleary, Green) 2 big failures(Stephens and Ling) and 3 we know are decent players(McDonald, Florent, Hayward.)
So I would just ask, what is it you think Beatson did better than Clarke with his first round picks? He had way better picks available and barely did better, if at all.
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What if we want to play them in a different position
We can't match, he's unrestricted.
tigs2010
Pick 1...
Rioli was FJ. I don't think people are complaining about FJ, dude drafted us a dynasty list. CCJ is a Clarke failure. Blair saved our ass recouping cost. I think most agree Blair is very good at his job.
The 3 you've listed as decent we'd be fapping over if we had them. For instance Gibcus and Brown don't look like being any better than McDonald, Florent & Hayward.
The one thing we do seem to have got right in the Clarke years and impossible to know if it's him or Blair is we traded out of 2020 and even 2022 looks pretty meh but maybe a bit early for me to crow about that.
Even if you just go from the 2016 draft onwards(remembering Clarke was working for us prior to then) you would struggle to say Clarke has done worse than Beatson on a pick for pick basis. Beatson had 2 top 5 picks + 11 and 14. Clarke had 1 single pick under 17.
I tell you what though tigs, FJ didn’t get much love on here until we started winning flags. Some of the vitriol directed at him at times was disgraceful. I got to know him a little and always tried to defend him, but that caused a bit of grief in my direction too.
Inb4 we should get Will Brodie ffs
Our recruiters get brutalised on here. It is easy to make them look poor by pointing to failures.
But it is easy to refute the criticism by simply putting their total picks up against opposition recruiters total picks. Our guys have had basically zero gifts. Our last priority pick was pick 18 in the 2007 draft. Our last decent father sons are long retired by now 15 years ago in fact.
Our recruiters have done as well as any. They did so well players they recruited like Stengle, Butler, Chol, Markov, Ellis, Conca, Lloyd, Higgins, Coleman-Jones, Soldo who couldn't get a regular game with us were the subject of good offers from other clubs, and had to be released.
As I have written before, if we had simply been a poor side, none of these guys would have been squeezed out, and we'd have had a string of higher picks. Sadly it seems, we had to settle for 3 flags instead.
We should get Will Brodie.
tigs2010
Pick 1...
I get Clarke was with us prior but our picks have notably got worse since then when he had final say over FJ. Also think if you went the opposite way and compared picks after 30 only Kinnear would win by KO in the first round. On the flip side I think FJ would go toe to toe and potentially even win the battle. Just look at the year where we picked up Butler, Short, Castagna, Lambert and Soldo late. I doubt Clarke ends up with as many late hits as that in 7 drafts.
Things can change maybe Campbell becomes an A grade mid from nowhere or 3 of the 2021 crop become stars in time. At the moment I'm seeing some solid role players with maybe Gibcus ending up very good.
Absolutely he got crucified. The guy was a one man band and picked 3 generational talents and a 300 gamer in his first 2 drafts which is crazy. I've even seen in the past Clarke get credited for the premierships, not even sure how that's possible.
tigs2010
Pick 1...
Says Graham is restricted in your table?
I was spewing that we missed this bloke, was exactly what we needed at the time, an inside bull with great hands and excellent defensive skills, has a huge tank running a 6min 32sec 2km trial at the state combine.
He's a natural accumulator and has worked on his outside game and disposal by foot, we'd be mad to not have a crack at him, still only 20yo.
I reckon that the reason we got Hopper was because we missed Hobbs the year before
Ben Hobbs
central.rookieme.com
Draft watchers overhype draft kids before they get drafted and then when they go to other clubs those who lauded them manage to disassociate their pre draft hype to their actual performance like they’re two different players. So it’s easy to assume that every other club must be drafting better then us
Case in point with Ben Hobbs who people lost their absolute minds over when we passed on him to now being furious that there’s suggestions we might trade for him in the future
Clarke did a more than adequate job while he was with us and importantly (for me anyway) I think the ranking system the club has is shown to identify talent. Hopefully that means that Toce in conjunction with the continued use of that system will continue to find us AFL players
Case in point with Ben Hobbs who people lost their absolute minds over when we passed on him to now being furious that there’s suggestions we might trade for him in the future
Clarke did a more than adequate job while he was with us and importantly (for me anyway) I think the ranking system the club has is shown to identify talent. Hopefully that means that Toce in conjunction with the continued use of that system will continue to find us AFL players
tigs2010
Pick 1...
- Oct 25, 2006
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Gold coast need picks for several academy stars next year
I get Clarke was with us prior but our picks have notably got worse since then when he had final say over FJ. Also think if you went the opposite way and compared picks after 30 only Kinnear would win by KO in the first round. On the flip side I think FJ would go toe to toe and potentially even win the battle. Just look at the year where we picked up Butler, Short, Castagna, Lambert and Soldo late. I doubt Clarke ends up with as many late hits as that in 7 drafts.
Things can change maybe Campbell becomes an A grade mid from nowhere or 3 of the 2021 crop become stars in time. At the moment I'm seeing some solid role players with maybe Gibcus ending up very good.
Absolutely he got crucified. The guy was a one man band and picked 3 generational talents and a 300 gamer in his first 2 drafts which is crazy. I've even seen in the past Clarke get credited for the premierships, not even sure how that's possible.
This wouldn't be the right comparison, because it would exclude key rd 2 picks Rowbottom for Swans, Balta and Bolton for Tigers.
This is the players of any note Swans have drafted or SSP'd outside the first round of the draft 2016 onwards(excluding academy players):
Darcy Cameron, Fox, McCartin, Amartey, Rowbottom, McInereney, Warner
v Matthew Clarke and Richmond:
Bolton, Graham, Stengle, Balta, Miller, Baker, Ross, Pickett, Ralphsmith, Rioli Jnr, Mansell, Campbell
I have just included the players who are probably established in their club's best 23 right now. A couple like Fox, Campbell, Pickett, Ralphsmith might not be fully established.
But I am ****ed if I can see any knockout blows there. Do you?
tigs2010
Pick 1...
That 2016 being credited to him is a bit dodgy given what happened. He "took over" after all the work was done. You've also left out McLean and Gulden for them (possibly others as I haven't bothered to check)
Sydney's group has 3 parts of a spine, 2 starting mids and both wings of the top team. Ours has a ton of average plus Balta. Even if you include 2016 I'm still taking the Swans list.
I'm actually not sure they're Beatsons picks. I think hes been their Blair for quite awhile.
Anyway I'm happy Clarke is gone and Toce has come in. I genuinely believe we've upgraded here and time will tell but that's ultimately all that will matter.
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Rayner is the type of player we needed available when we went after taranto & hopper
Better than both
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Better than both
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