List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 6

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richoplzbreed said:
He's actually the one from the 5 kids I'm least confident in. There was so much quality left to pick when we chose him. In effect we got him with the Max Holmes swapped pick. Max is 30 games in after 2 seasons and my mates who barrack for Cats rate him. Barring mass injuries down back or a monster preseason I'm not sure he even looks close to getting a game. Banks and Judson ooze class and will get chances... I just haven't been impressed at all with Browne. We were kissed on the dick to land Gibcus (dunno why Mac Andrew was taken before him) with Dow under enormous pressure this year our 1st Round drafting is laughing stock. Have to go back 10 years to Vlastuin since our last nailed pick. Here's hoping Browne justifies his selection.
Click to expand...
Not sure about the 'so much quality left to pick when we chose him' (referring to Tom Brown). This list from pick 18 to 27
Angus Sheldrick, Jacob Van Rooyen, Kai Lohmann, Matt Johnson, Josh Goater, Sam Butler, Mitchell Knevitt, Connor MacDonald and Jesse Motlop are yet to have shown they are any better than Tom Brown. Sonsie was next and I would take him over any of the aforementioned nine. Daniel Rioli pick 15 in 2015 goes alright. Our first pick in 2016 Shai Bolton he goes alright, Jack Higgins in 2017 pick 17 has kicked 86 goals in 80 games and missed over a year with brain surgery and then as you pointed out we have Gibcus from last year's draft. Max Holmes might be a good player but there was never a suggestion that we would have taken him in 2020 and clearly our recruiters felt there were bigger fish to fry in the following years. Our first round drafting is far from a laughing stock and our later round's drafting is elite.
 

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Gibcus is the Grimes replacement. Drafted as a back, play him as a back.

Trying to turn backs into forwards is wishful thinking, we tried it with Balta how did that go?

If they don't draft a key forward this year then it will be obvious they've got eyes on a free agent.
 
tigerdan said:
Gibcus is the Grimes replacement. Drafted as a back, play him as a back.

Trying to turn backs into forwards is wishful thinking, we tried it with Balta how did that go?

If they don't draft a key forward this year then it will be obvious they've got eyes on a free agent.
Click to expand...
Yeah Balta and Gibcus are our future down back.
 
tigerdan said:
Gibcus is the Grimes replacement. Drafted as a back, play him as a back.

Trying to turn backs into forwards is wishful thinking, we tried it with Balta how did that go?

If they don't draft a key forward this year then it will be obvious they've got eyes on a free agent.
Click to expand...
So obvious yet so many want to reinvent them into KPF because they showed something when swung forward for something different in a game or 2.

It's the constant chopping and changing with positions that halted the development of others in the past.

For mine we should be trying to play Balta Gibcus and Miller as defenders as often as possible this year so that they can start developing the kind of understanding that Rance Grimes and Astbury had at their best.
 
Dystraction said:
Not sure about the 'so much quality left to pick when we chose him' (referring to Tom Brown). This list from pick 18 to 27
Angus Sheldrick, Jacob Van Rooyen, Kai Lohmann, Matt Johnson, Josh Goater, Sam Butler, Mitchell Knevitt, Connor MacDonald and Jesse Motlop are yet to have shown they are any better than Tom Brown. Sonsie was next and I would take him over any of the aforementioned nine. Daniel Rioli pick 15 in 2015 goes alright. Our first pick in 2016 Shai Bolton he goes alright, Jack Higgins in 2017 pick 17 has kicked 86 goals in 80 games and missed over a year with brain surgery and then as you pointed out we have Gibcus from last year's draft. Max Holmes might be a good player but there was never a suggestion that we would have taken him in 2020 and clearly our recruiters felt there were bigger fish to fry in the following years. Our first round drafting is far from a laughing stock and our later round's drafting is elite.
Click to expand...
You don’t post often , but when you do , we listen
 
Dystraction said:
Not sure about the 'so much quality left to pick when we chose him' (referring to Tom Brown). This list from pick 18 to 27
Angus Sheldrick, Jacob Van Rooyen, Kai Lohmann, Matt Johnson, Josh Goater, Sam Butler, Mitchell Knevitt, Connor MacDonald and Jesse Motlop are yet to have shown they are any better than Tom Brown. Sonsie was next and I would take him over any of the aforementioned nine. Daniel Rioli pick 15 in 2015 goes alright. Our first pick in 2016 Shai Bolton he goes alright, Jack Higgins in 2017 pick 17 has kicked 86 goals in 80 games and missed over a year with brain surgery and then as you pointed out we have Gibcus from last year's draft. Max Holmes might be a good player but there was never a suggestion that we would have taken him in 2020 and clearly our recruiters felt there were bigger fish to fry in the following years. Our first round drafting is far from a laughing stock and our later round's drafting is elite.
Click to expand...
Given our lack of KPF's, from a list perspective, JVR seemed like a better choice.

May not be a better player than Brown, but a position we lack depth, so more valuable to our overall output.
 
sregit said:
I’d rather put time into Bauer. Van Rooyen has yet to play senior football. What would be the reason for chasing him? He hasn’t broken into the Melbourne side yet and their forward line is crap. If he starts playing senior football then he could be considered.
Click to expand...
I think he's shown enough to potentially be a good KPF.

But given we don't have much to give up at the moment, unless we get a FA, we kind of have to have a swing at an untried player we think we can develop into a really good player.

No-one would have thought getting Nank was an awesome idea, but we had a need, he didn't cost much, and look how that's turned out.

Bauer is not a bad idea either, and all we've got to work with for 12 months, so fingers crossed he comes on. Certainly appears to have the right attitude.
 
tigerdan said:
Gibcus is the Grimes replacement. Drafted as a back, play him as a back.

Trying to turn backs into forwards is wishful thinking, we tried it with Balta how did that go?

If they don't draft a key forward this year then it will be obvious they've got eyes on a free agent.
Click to expand...
Gibcus played as a forward in U17 and was good. We trialled Bolta forward and yes it failed but it does not mean it will fail for Gibcus. I think he has more versatility than Balta and may be worth a go in the forward line. This early in his career a 4 or 5 week experiment forward may be great for his development. Could be far more advantageous than drafting a tall KPF late who most likely will not be up to it. As I stated earlier we need to also see if Bauer can step up.
 
Im not pulling my chain here ive banged on a lot in recent years about getting more big mids and key fwds.
the 2021 draft was the opportunity to do something about both i thought.

First i thought we should have bit the bullet and found a way to get a pick in the 40's.

Heres a few sliding door moments.

Pick 9 Erasmus. Nothing wrong with the Gibcus pick and in fairness was probably too good to overlook.
Erasmus would have meant a big bodied quality mid that just needs developing. After all we were all going on about the need for big mids and key forwards.He also can play fwd.
The beauty of Erasmus here would have meant we probably did not have to go after Hopper on top of Taranto keeping us in the ND this year and next year.
The hope was for Amiss to be here but Fremantle were never going to let us have a look in.

Pick 17 Jacob Van Rooyen. he went just two picks after Browne and he was touted as one of the best kpf in the draft.There was no stretch in taking him in fact if we did not consider him here then they should not be in the job the list was screaming out for a good young kpf to develop it still is.


28 Sonsie he just had to be taken here he was the best player left in the draft.

Pick 29 Rhett Bazzo having taken Erasmus at 9 Bazzo was the next best rated key defender left. he was only rated below Andrew and Gibcus. Like Gibcus he got games and looked just as impressive.

Pick 30 one of 4 would have done nicely. Blake Howes was one tall fwd.he is not a kpp but a nice moving tall with a point of difference.
StKilda had two acadamy players in mids Owens and Windhager a succesful bid on one of them would have been nice. Arlo Draper was another mid still there.. Any one of those four would have been great imo..

That pick in the 40's we did not have well Jack Williams was a big key forward who i thought would be drafted and was worthy of a list spot.

The above sliding door moments and it could have been

9 Erasmus - big mid
17 Van Rooyen - KPF.
28 Sonsie - mid
29 Bazzo - KPD
30 Windhager - Big mid or one of the others.
40ish Williams KPF

Two - kpf
One - kpd
Three mids.

Our midfield stocks would go
Martin, Cotchin, Bolton, Prestia, Sonsie, Taranto, Erasmus, Windhager, Graham, Short, Dow, Ross, Baker.

Key/tall fwds
Riewoldt, Lynch, JVR, Williams, Bauer, Maybe Miller.

Key/tall def
Tarrant,Balta,Grimes, Bazzo, Nyuon, Maybe Miller.

At the very least that makes for a much better list balance and covered our most pressing needs.
 
Moppey said:
Im not pulling my chain here ive banged on a lot in recent years about getting more big mids and key fwds.
the 2021 draft was the opportunity to do something about both i thought.

First i thought we should have bit the bullet and found a way to get a pick in the 40's.

Heres a few sliding door moments.

Pick 9 Erasmus. Nothing wrong with the Gibcus pick and in fairness was probably too good to overlook.
Erasmus would have meant a big bodied quality mid that just needs developing. After all we were all going on about the need for big mids and key forwards.He also can play fwd.
The beauty of Erasmus here would have meant we probably did not have to go after Hopper on top of Taranto keeping us in the ND this year and next year.
The hope was for Amiss to be here but Fremantle were never going to let us have a look in.

Pick 17 Jacob Van Rooyen. he went just two picks after Browne and he was touted as one of the best kpf in the draft.There was no stretch in taking him in fact if we did not consider him here then they should not be in the job the list was screaming out for a good young kpf to develop it still is.


28 Sonsie he just had to be taken here he was the best player left in the draft.

Pick 29 Rhett Bazzo having taken Erasmus at 9 Bazzo was the next best rated key defender left. he was only rated below Andrew and Gibcus. Like Gibcus he got games and looked just as impressive.

Pick 30 one of 4 would have done nicely. Blake Howes was one tall fwd.he is not a kpp but a nice moving tall with a point of difference.
StKilda had two acadamy players in mids Owens and Windhager a succesful bid on one of them would have been nice. Arlo Draper was another mid still there.. Any one of those four would have been great imo..

That pick in the 40's we did not have well Jack Williams was a big key forward who i thought would be drafted and was worthy of a list spot.

The above sliding door moments and it could have been

9 Erasmus - big mid
17 Van Rooyen - KPF.
28 Sonsie - mid
29 Bazzo - KPD
30 Windhager - Big mid or one of the others.
40ish Williams KPF

Two - kpf
One - kpd
Three mids.

Our midfield stocks would go
Martin, Cotchin, Bolton, Prestia, Sonsie, Taranto, Erasmus, Windhager, Graham, Short, Dow, Ross, Baker.

Key/tall fwds
Riewoldt, Lynch, JVR, Williams, Bauer, Maybe Miller.

Key/tall def
Tarrant,Balta,Grimes, Bazzo, Nyuon, Maybe Miller.

At the very least that makes for a much better list balance and covered our most pressing needs.
Click to expand...
coulda woulda shoualda
 

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Moppey said:
Im not pulling my chain here ive banged on a lot in recent years about getting more big mids and key fwds.
the 2021 draft was the opportunity to do something about both i thought.

First i thought we should have bit the bullet and found a way to get a pick in the 40's.

Heres a few sliding door moments.

Pick 9 Erasmus. Nothing wrong with the Gibcus pick and in fairness was probably too good to overlook.
Erasmus would have meant a big bodied quality mid that just needs developing. After all we were all going on about the need for big mids and key forwards.He also can play fwd.
The beauty of Erasmus here would have meant we probably did not have to go after Hopper on top of Taranto keeping us in the ND this year and next year.
The hope was for Amiss to be here but Fremantle were never going to let us have a look in.

Pick 17 Jacob Van Rooyen. he went just two picks after Browne and he was touted as one of the best kpf in the draft.There was no stretch in taking him in fact if we did not consider him here then they should not be in the job the list was screaming out for a good young kpf to develop it still is.


28 Sonsie he just had to be taken here he was the best player left in the draft.

Pick 29 Rhett Bazzo having taken Erasmus at 9 Bazzo was the next best rated key defender left. he was only rated below Andrew and Gibcus. Like Gibcus he got games and looked just as impressive.

Pick 30 one of 4 would have done nicely. Blake Howes was one tall fwd.he is not a kpp but a nice moving tall with a point of difference.
StKilda had two acadamy players in mids Owens and Windhager a succesful bid on one of them would have been nice. Arlo Draper was another mid still there.. Any one of those four would have been great imo..

That pick in the 40's we did not have well Jack Williams was a big key forward who i thought would be drafted and was worthy of a list spot.

The above sliding door moments and it could have been

9 Erasmus - big mid
17 Van Rooyen - KPF.
28 Sonsie - mid
29 Bazzo - KPD
30 Windhager - Big mid or one of the others.
40ish Williams KPF

Two - kpf
One - kpd
Three mids.

Our midfield stocks would go
Martin, Cotchin, Bolton, Prestia, Sonsie, Taranto, Erasmus, Windhager, Graham, Short, Dow, Ross, Baker.

Key/tall fwds
Riewoldt, Lynch, JVR, Williams, Bauer, Maybe Miller.

Key/tall def
Tarrant,Balta,Grimes, Bazzo, Nyuon, Maybe Miller.

At the very least that makes for a much better list balance and covered our most pressing needs.
Click to expand...

This is your best post for many a long year Mopsy.

Still one of the worst posts I have read on Bigfooty in 2022. 🤣
 
Hank Heavenly said:
Given our lack of KPF's, from a list perspective, JVR seemed like a better choice.

May not be a better player than Brown, but a position we lack depth, so more valuable to our overall output.
Click to expand...
Totally agree, really thought we would’ve gone

Gibcus
Sonsie
Van Rooyen

And then last two was really not sure what would be left but expected us to go an inside mid.

Now with Taranto and hopper, it’s really just the key forward we are looking for
 
Hank Heavenly said:
I think he's shown enough to potentially be a good KPF.

But given we don't have much to give up at the moment, unless we get a FA, we kind of have to have a swing at an untried player we think we can develop into a really good player.

No-one would have thought getting Nank was an awesome idea, but we had a need, he didn't cost much, and look how that's turned out.

Bauer is not a bad idea either, and all we've got to work with for 12 months, so fingers crossed he comes on. Certainly appears to have the right attitude.
Click to expand...
Bauer a maybe & Sampson Ryan has some good KPF traits. Losing CCJ& Chol: has given Miller a chance and he's killing it as back up ruck/KPF. Balta & Gibcus had a little taste of KPF life. It takes a bit to get the feel of working with the FWD line. I'm not ruling Balta out as a slowish developer of FWD craft.
I think they will all play better with no JR. See how he goes in 23
 
Moppey said:
Im not pulling my chain here ive banged on a lot in recent years about getting more big mids and key fwds.
the 2021 draft was the opportunity to do something about both i thought.

First i thought we should have bit the bullet and found a way to get a pick in the 40's.

Heres a few sliding door moments.

Pick 9 Erasmus. Nothing wrong with the Gibcus pick and in fairness was probably too good to overlook.
Erasmus would have meant a big bodied quality mid that just needs developing. After all we were all going on about the need for big mids and key forwards.He also can play fwd.
The beauty of Erasmus here would have meant we probably did not have to go after Hopper on top of Taranto keeping us in the ND this year and next year.
The hope was for Amiss to be here but Fremantle were never going to let us have a look in.

Pick 17 Jacob Van Rooyen. he went just two picks after Browne and he was touted as one of the best kpf in the draft.There was no stretch in taking him in fact if we did not consider him here then they should not be in the job the list was screaming out for a good young kpf to develop it still is.


28 Sonsie he just had to be taken here he was the best player left in the draft.

Pick 29 Rhett Bazzo having taken Erasmus at 9 Bazzo was the next best rated key defender left. he was only rated below Andrew and Gibcus. Like Gibcus he got games and looked just as impressive.

Pick 30 one of 4 would have done nicely. Blake Howes was one tall fwd.he is not a kpp but a nice moving tall with a point of difference.
StKilda had two acadamy players in mids Owens and Windhager a succesful bid on one of them would have been nice. Arlo Draper was another mid still there.. Any one of those four would have been great imo..

That pick in the 40's we did not have well Jack Williams was a big key forward who i thought would be drafted and was worthy of a list spot.

The above sliding door moments and it could have been

9 Erasmus - big mid
17 Van Rooyen - KPF.
28 Sonsie - mid
29 Bazzo - KPD
30 Windhager - Big mid or one of the others.
40ish Williams KPF

Two - kpf
One - kpd
Three mids.

Our midfield stocks would go
Martin, Cotchin, Bolton, Prestia, Sonsie, Taranto, Erasmus, Windhager, Graham, Short, Dow, Ross, Baker.

Key/tall fwds
Riewoldt, Lynch, JVR, Williams, Bauer, Maybe Miller.

Key/tall def
Tarrant,Balta,Grimes, Bazzo, Nyuon, Maybe Miller.

At the very least that makes for a much better list balance and covered our most pressing needs.
Click to expand...
1669012691001.jpeg

I'd rather Hopper , Taranto , Clarke , Sonise , Browne , Banks , Gibcus

If Richmond did what you posted we would be heading into free fall after Cotchin , Martin , Prestia all retire or finish up

The only part of your post i agree with is Sonsie & JVR instead of Browne
 
Dystraction said:
Not sure about the 'so much quality left to pick when we chose him' (referring to Tom Brown). This list from pick 18 to 27
Angus Sheldrick, Jacob Van Rooyen, Kai Lohmann, Matt Johnson, Josh Goater, Sam Butler, Mitchell Knevitt, Connor MacDonald and Jesse Motlop are yet to have shown they are any better than Tom Brown. Sonsie was next and I would take him over any of the aforementioned nine. Daniel Rioli pick 15 in 2015 goes alright. Our first pick in 2016 Shai Bolton he goes alright, Jack Higgins in 2017 pick 17 has kicked 86 goals in 80 games and missed over a year with brain surgery and then as you pointed out we have Gibcus from last year's draft. Max Holmes might be a good player but there was never a suggestion that we would have taken him in 2020 and clearly our recruiters felt there were bigger fish to fry in the following years. Our first round drafting is far from a laughing stock and our later round's drafting is elite.
Click to expand...

Van Rooyen is gonna be a gun. Should’ve picked him.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Moppey said:
Im not pulling my chain here ive banged on a lot in recent years about getting more big mids and key fwds.
the 2021 draft was the opportunity to do something about both i thought.

First i thought we should have bit the bullet and found a way to get a pick in the 40's.

Heres a few sliding door moments.

Pick 9 Erasmus. Nothing wrong with the Gibcus pick and in fairness was probably too good to overlook.
Erasmus would have meant a big bodied quality mid that just needs developing. After all we were all going on about the need for big mids and key forwards.He also can play fwd.
The beauty of Erasmus here would have meant we probably did not have to go after Hopper on top of Taranto keeping us in the ND this year and next year.
The hope was for Amiss to be here but Fremantle were never going to let us have a look in.

Pick 17 Jacob Van Rooyen. he went just two picks after Browne and he was touted as one of the best kpf in the draft.There was no stretch in taking him in fact if we did not consider him here then they should not be in the job the list was screaming out for a good young kpf to develop it still is.


28 Sonsie he just had to be taken here he was the best player left in the draft.

Pick 29 Rhett Bazzo having taken Erasmus at 9 Bazzo was the next best rated key defender left. he was only rated below Andrew and Gibcus. Like Gibcus he got games and looked just as impressive.

Pick 30 one of 4 would have done nicely. Blake Howes was one tall fwd.he is not a kpp but a nice moving tall with a point of difference.
StKilda had two acadamy players in mids Owens and Windhager a succesful bid on one of them would have been nice. Arlo Draper was another mid still there.. Any one of those four would have been great imo..

That pick in the 40's we did not have well Jack Williams was a big key forward who i thought would be drafted and was worthy of a list spot.

The above sliding door moments and it could have been

9 Erasmus - big mid
17 Van Rooyen - KPF.
28 Sonsie - mid
29 Bazzo - KPD
30 Windhager - Big mid or one of the others.
40ish Williams KPF

Two - kpf
One - kpd
Three mids.

Our midfield stocks would go
Martin, Cotchin, Bolton, Prestia, Sonsie, Taranto, Erasmus, Windhager, Graham, Short, Dow, Ross, Baker.

Key/tall fwds
Riewoldt, Lynch, JVR, Williams, Bauer, Maybe Miller.

Key/tall def
Tarrant,Balta,Grimes, Bazzo, Nyuon, Maybe Miller.

At the very least that makes for a much better list balance and covered our most pressing needs.
Click to expand...

I was big on the mids too, but since we got Hopper and Taranto it was a better choice not to get them. We have other needs to fill now, would’ve been midfield overkill if we got those other kids. Browne for Van Rooyen would’ve been the perfect draft imo. But I think we didn’t want the risk of getting an interstate kid with COVID going around.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
RICHMOND
Another first-year player who hit the ground running last season was Richmond defender Josh Gibcus.

The 19-year-old looked right at home on an AFL field in the pressure cooker that is the back line, playing 18 games including the Tigers’ thrilling finals loss to Brisbane.

Gibcus averaged nine touches, three marks and four intercepts, and ranked sixth at his club for contested marks.

Has the potential to take up a more prominent role in 2023 with the likes of Dylan Grimes, Robbie Tarrant and Nick Vlastuin all in the twilight of their careers

www.theage.com.au

Ready to launch: Every club’s young gun set to explode in 2023

With most clubs calling back their first-to-fourth-year players to begin pre-season training on Monday, we’ve nominated a player from each team in that age bracket who looks set to have a huge 2023.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
 
sregit said:
Gibcus played as a forward in U17 and was good. We trialled Bolta forward and yes it failed but it does not mean it will fail for Gibcus. I think he has more versatility than Balta and may be worth a go in the forward line. This early in his career a 4 or 5 week experiment forward may be great for his development. Could be far more advantageous than drafting a tall KPF late who most likely will not be up to it. As I stated earlier we need to also see if Bauer can step up.
Click to expand...
Seems to be more switched on than Balta.
 
Moppey said:
Im not pulling my chain here ive banged on a lot in recent years about getting more big mids and key fwds.
the 2021 draft was the opportunity to do something about both i thought.

First i thought we should have bit the bullet and found a way to get a pick in the 40's.

Heres a few sliding door moments.

Pick 9 Erasmus. Nothing wrong with the Gibcus pick and in fairness was probably too good to overlook.
Erasmus would have meant a big bodied quality mid that just needs developing. After all we were all going on about the need for big mids and key forwards.He also can play fwd.
The beauty of Erasmus here would have meant we probably did not have to go after Hopper on top of Taranto keeping us in the ND this year and next year.
The hope was for Amiss to be here but Fremantle were never going to let us have a look in.

Pick 17 Jacob Van Rooyen. he went just two picks after Browne and he was touted as one of the best kpf in the draft.There was no stretch in taking him in fact if we did not consider him here then they should not be in the job the list was screaming out for a good young kpf to develop it still is.


28 Sonsie he just had to be taken here he was the best player left in the draft.

Pick 29 Rhett Bazzo having taken Erasmus at 9 Bazzo was the next best rated key defender left. he was only rated below Andrew and Gibcus. Like Gibcus he got games and looked just as impressive.

Pick 30 one of 4 would have done nicely. Blake Howes was one tall fwd.he is not a kpp but a nice moving tall with a point of difference.
StKilda had two acadamy players in mids Owens and Windhager a succesful bid on one of them would have been nice. Arlo Draper was another mid still there.. Any one of those four would have been great imo..

That pick in the 40's we did not have well Jack Williams was a big key forward who i thought would be drafted and was worthy of a list spot.

The above sliding door moments and it could have been

9 Erasmus - big mid
17 Van Rooyen - KPF.
28 Sonsie - mid
29 Bazzo - KPD
30 Windhager - Big mid or one of the others.
40ish Williams KPF

Two - kpf
One - kpd
Three mids.

Our midfield stocks would go
Martin, Cotchin, Bolton, Prestia, Sonsie, Taranto, Erasmus, Windhager, Graham, Short, Dow, Ross, Baker.

Key/tall fwds
Riewoldt, Lynch, JVR, Williams, Bauer, Maybe Miller.

Key/tall def
Tarrant,Balta,Grimes, Bazzo, Nyuon, Maybe Miller.

At the very least that makes for a much better list balance and covered our most pressing needs.
Click to expand...
Who's to say that Melbourne wouldn't have snapped up Sonsie if we'd taken JVR two picks before them? Or some other club who'd had their target taken by the Demons?

Gibcus will be a ripper - he's a mile ahead of so many current gun defenders at the same age.
 
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