List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8

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List Mgmt. - Trade & Free Agency Part 9

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[tigs2010]

Phillips I guess could take Prestias spot on the list. Likely a bust but worth a crack for a rubbish pick. We do need players in that age bracket

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Have to wait and see

Dow: uninjured & getting selected every week is his current trajectory.

A break out season. Selectors love him.

Prestia and other fringe players will be out the door before Dow.

Maybe bring in Phillips. Haven't seen him so can't compare to Dow.

The uninjured bit is right. The selectors have been compelled to select any fit midfielder, in most matches there has been no choice.

Dow is the 122nd rated midfielder in the AFL this season. Of Richmond mids, based on average player rating, Dow rates beneath the following players defined as midfielders:

Baker, Bolton, Taranto, Ross, Hopper, Graham, Prestia.

Will Phillips rates marginally above Dow in 2024 but in 2023 Phillips rated way above Dow24.

Of Richmond players considered pure midfielders in 2024, Dow rates above:

Ralphsmith, McAuliffe, McIntosh, Banks.

3 of those are pure wingers. The other started the season as an 18yo first year inside mid who we used pick 40 something to recruit.

Without wanting to be critical of Dow, who has shown some small encouraging signs, you can't seriously describe 2024 as a breakout season for him. Playing full time inside mid he has averaged:

16 disposals
has ZERO coaches votes
33% kick efficiency
75% disposal efficiency
150 metres gained
8 contested possessions
1 centre clearance every 9.5 attendances
3.8 total clearances
scored 0.3
0.4 goal assists
2.5 tackles
17 pressure acts

Now I accept some of those stats might be better if the team was more stable around him. But others playing in the same circumstances have rated higher. 7 others in fact.

Dow is THE LOWEST RATED inside mid in the AFL who has played 12 or more games in 2024, and in the bottom couple who have played 10+ games.

He looks a busted flush to me based on that. Unless the club has reason to believe he will improve sharply from here, you are taking Will Phillips over that ever day of the semester.

 

[tigs2010]

Just had a look at Will Phil's junior videos. Man what have Norf done to him?

 

[tora tora tora]

The uninjured bit is right. The selectors have been compelled to select any fit midfielder, in most matches there has been no choice.

Dow is the 122nd rated midfielder in the AFL this season. Of Richmond mids, based on average player rating, Dow rates beneath the following players defined as midfielders:

Baker, Bolton, Taranto, Ross, Hopper, Graham, Prestia.

Will Phillips rates marginally above Dow in 2024 but in 2023 Phillips rated way above Dow24.

Of Richmond players considered pure midfielders in 2024, Dow rates above:

Ralphsmith, McAuliffe, McIntosh, Banks.

3 of those are pure wingers. The other started the season as an 18yo first year inside mid who we used pick 40 something to recruit.

Without wanting to be critical of Dow, who has shown some small encouraging signs, you can't seriously describe 2024 as a breakout season for him. Playing full time inside mid he has averaged:

16 disposals
has ZERO coaches votes
33% kick efficiency
75% disposal efficiency
150 metres gained
8 contested possessions
1 centre clearance every 9.5 attendances
3.8 total clearances
scored 0.3
0.4 goal assists
2.5 tackles
17 pressure acts

Now I accept some of those stats might be better if the team was more stable around him. But others playing in the same circumstances have rated higher. 7 others in fact.

Dow is THE LOWEST RATED inside mid in the AFL who has played 12 or more games in 2024, and in the bottom couple who have played 10+ games.

He looks a busted flush to me based on that. Unless the club has reason to believe he will improve sharply from here, you are taking Will Phillips over that ever day of the semester.

Ground zero Dow selected alongside Hopper, Tarranto, Prestia, Baker, Bolton & Ross as Sub.

before the injuries.


he's impressed Yze.. I'm tipping he stays.

 

[RichoLedio]

Seth Green ? The actor ? I didn't even know he was on our list ! I loved him in the Austin Powers films.

Shite footballer tho.

Dud, delist.

Another bloody midget we've drafted

 

[THE_GUN]

Wouldn’t see the harm in offering Phillips a go. There was a reason he was a top 3 pick. If we can unlock some of that potential then why not have a go as long as we aren’t paying overs.

If for just 1 minute we could wipe the fact he was taken with #3

Would we even consider him even as a rookie ?

NO

 

[Bojangles17]

If for just 1 minute we could wipe the fact he was taken with #3

Would we even consider him even as a rookie ?

NO

Trying to think of a fizzer that has turned things around at a second club , no one immediately comes to mind

 

[THE_GUN]

Trying to think of a fizzer that has turned things around at a second club , no one immediately comes to mind

Shaun Grigg

 

[fargothegreat]

Trying to think of a fizzer that has turned things around at a second club , no one immediately comes to mind

Josh Kennedy did alright, but it is pretty rare, especially for mids.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Phillips might be better than Dow. That's a window from Dusty to dud. It's not saying much.

But we could get a former pick 3 for pick eleventy-two! What do we have to lose!

Counter: Aaron Fiora is a former pick 3. We could get him as a delisted free agent and keep pick eleventy-two.

Don't be silly, Richo, you handsome devil. Fiora is 48 years old.

Okay, forget Fiora. (We can now, right? That wound has well and truly healed. Right??) There is more to trading in Will Phillips than just giving up pick eleventy-two.

We'd have to pay him at least 400k a year for the next three years. Is that money well spent or could we front-load some deals to clear space for Harley and Cadman?

Do we need a small, unquick, inside mid who can't kick over a jam jar? Isn't that what Dow is? Don't we have Taranto, Hopper, McAuliffe, and aren't we getting Finn O'Cotchin?

How many list spots do you think we have? As is stands we are two over, meaning we need to shed five just to clear the requisite three spaces to take to the draft. And don't we want to draft at least four, maybe five, from this strong draft? And you want to add Phillips? That's eight players you need to get rid of. Who? Why?

Phillips? Meh. We have meh.

 

[Karp3_dm]

Just had a look at Will Phil's junior videos. Man what have Norf done to him?

They used him as a tagger in the VFL on the weekend
He’s gone for sure

 

[Cleansweep17]

Who?

Deledio? Nah
BEllis? Nah.
CEllis? Nah
Callum Moore? Nah
Menadue? Nah
Naish? Nah
Stengle? At cats, yeah but not at Crows.
Townsend? Nah.
Miles? Nah.
Lloyd Nah.
Conca? Much the same.
Vickery? Nah.
Higgins? Meh, he was ready to step up right when he requested a trade like a coward. Butler? Played well on the weekend but is a fringe player at Saints.
CCJ? Massive spud at Norf.
Chol? Much the same.
Markov? Won a flag but he's average af. Biggie? Can't get a game at Norf.
Soldo? Yeah but he was never going to get the opportunity here.

Can't think of any others....

Fair enough. I think I’ve just got Butler, Higgins and Chol PTSD

 

[Noidnadroj]

Yes I think Dow is a reasonable chance to be delisted. Probably not but I would be surprised if the club has him pencilled into its future midfield based on his current trajectory.

It’s an interesting question … but right now if I had to pick between Dow or Philips - with nothing else taken into account - I’m 100% taking Dow. He can take contested marks. He’s got clean hands in traffic. He’s got plenty of things to work on, but IMO Dow’s upside trumps the upside of Philips, and I’d be astounded if they delisted Dow and traded for Philips … in fact their career stats are remarkably similar:

Dow v Philips :

Games : 30 v 35
Disposals: 14.9 v 14.1
Tackles: 2.2 v 3.0
Goals : 0 v 0.2
GA: 0.3 v 0.3
CP: 6.9 v 6.0
Clearances: 3.1 v 2.5
SI: 3.3 v 3.4
Metres: 147 v 152
DE% : 73% v 75%

Dow’s 2024 stats are vastly superior to Philips, but that could be due to TOG% and being sub…


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[tiger_tough]

Fair enough. I think I’ve just got Butler, Higgins and Chol PTSD

I'd rather Seth Campbell and Lefau over Butler and Chol.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Phillips might be better than Dow. That's a window from Dusty to dud. It's not saying much.

But we could get a former pick 3 for pick eleventy-two! What do we have to lose!

Counter: Aaron Fiora is a former pick 3. We could get him as a delisted free agent and keep pick eleventy-two.

Don't be silly, Richo, you handsome devil. Fiora is 48 years old.

Okay, forget Fiora. (We can now, right? That wound has well and truly healed. Right??) There is more to trading in Will Phillips than just giving up pick eleventy-two.

We'd have to pay him at least 400k a year for the next three years. Is that money well spent or could we front-load some deals to clear space for Harley and Cadman?

Do we need a small, unquick, inside mid who can't kick over a jam jar? Isn't that what Dow is? Don't we have Taranto, Hopper, McAuliffe, and aren't we getting Finn O'Cotchin?

How many list spots do you think we have? As is stands we are two over, meaning we need to shed five just to clear the requisite three spaces to take to the draft. And don't we want to draft at least four, maybe five, from this strong draft? And you want to add Phillips? That's eight players you need to get rid of. Who? Why?

Phillips? Meh. We have meh.

Philips is a poor man’s Tom Scully (both 181cm). Given Philips is small, just not sure what we’re hoping he turns into? A depth midfielder? He’s too small for a modern day wingman. He’s not dynamic enough or have goal kicking in his repertoire to be a HFF. So we are relying on him becoming what to make the 3 x $400k and the trade worthwhile? A smaller but maybe slightly better version of Dow? A better version of Sonsie (both 181cm).

Let’s make sure anyone we bring into the club is young AND a walk up best-18 in 2025… otherwise we are just list clogging. (I’d make an exception if it was a punt with upside and filled a need… a developing ruck or KPF). We don’t need small, C-grade midfielders.


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[NZ_Tiger]

Philips is a poor man’s Tom Scully (both 181cm). Given Philips is small, just not sure what we’re hoping he turns into? A depth midfielder? He’s too small for a modern day wingman. He’s not dynamic enough or have goal kicking in his repertoire to be a HFF. So we are relying on him becoming what to make the 3 x $400k and the trade worthwhile? A smaller but maybe slightly better version of Dow? A better version of Sonsie (both 181cm).

Let’s make sure anyone we bring into the club is young AND a walk up best-18 in 2025… otherwise we are just list clogging. (I’d make an exception if it was a punt with upside and filled a need… a developing ruck or KPF). We don’t need small, C-grade midfielders.


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I think he was just a bad pick based on limited exposure.

His strengths apparently are his work ethic and standards. All pretty irrelevant if he can’t get a game.

I could see him being a Kane lambert maybe. But lambert was an absolutely elite runner and I reckon he had more skills than I’ve seen from
Phillips.


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[tigs2010]

I think he was just a bad pick based on limited exposure.

His strengths apparently are his work ethic and standards. All pretty irrelevant if he can’t get a game.

I could see him being a Kane lambert maybe. But lambert was an absolutely elite runner and I reckon he had more skills than I’ve seen from
Phillips.


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He did look good as a 17yo in the clips I watched before.

Does have the vibe of teams picking up our crap thinking they can do better. Tambling, Fiona etc

 

[tora tora tora]

Ground zero Dow selected alongside Hopper, Tarranto, Prestia, Baker, Bolton & Ross as Sub.

before the injuries.


he's impressed Yze.. I'm tipping he stays.

edit

Practice matches & Ground zero Dow selected alongside Hopper, Tarranto, Prestia, Baker, Bolton & Ross as Sub.

In fact Dow's not far off triggering an extension at this rate.

 

[Bojangles17]

Josh Kennedy did alright, but it is pretty rare, especially for mids.

Context polar opposite, talented kid that couldn’t crack it into a premiership outfit , Phillips can’t crack it at a bottom side . I’m not against giving him a chance mind you , just not sure that it ever really works out

 

[Bojangles17]

Philips is a poor man’s Tom Scully (both 181cm). Given Philips is small, just not sure what we’re hoping he turns into? A depth midfielder? He’s too small for a modern day wingman. He’s not dynamic enough or have goal kicking in his repertoire to be a HFF. So we are relying on him becoming what to make the 3 x $400k and the trade worthwhile? A smaller but maybe slightly better version of Dow? A better version of Sonsie (both 181cm).

Let’s make sure anyone we bring into the club is young AND a walk up best-18 in 2025… otherwise we are just list clogging. (I’d make an exception if it was a punt with upside and filled a need… a developing ruck or KPF). We don’t need small, C-grade midfielders.


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181 not overly small ,heck we got several multi premiership players < that
Short. Lambert baker prestia

 

[Bojangles17]

Shaun Grigg

When I say a fizzer I’m more referring to top 20 pic that hasnt fired ,gets a chance elsewhere , Brander is a good example

 

[docko911]

If Dusty signs on no one will leave. It’s not rocket science, players like like Baker and Bolton would not want to look him in the eye as opposition players. IMO we do everything possible to convince him to stay and play 2 more years. At the end of 2 years our younger brigade will have enough experience to cover any exodus of senior players, but I honestly believe we can contend from next year. There isn’t a team in the league that is miles ahead when we don’t have injuries.

 

[guruisatiger]

If Cats have offered him $650k then also offer $650k. If he truly doesn't rate living in Geelong, he will choose us over them.

Then you are at the mercy of what other clubs offer and how Stengle rates those clubs. But $800k is too much imo.

800,000?????

 

[Bojangles17]

If Dusty signs on no one will leave. It’s not rocket science, players like like Baker and Bolton would not want to look him in the eye as opposition players. IMO we do everything possible to convince him to stay and play 2 more years. At the end of 2 years our younger brigade will have enough experience to cover any exodus of senior players, but I honestly believe we can contend from next year. There isn’t a team in the league that is miles ahead when we don’t have injuries.

The strength of top sides has significantly diminished , have a look at coll side last week played great footy and they’re swans biggest threat , bloody ordinary looking side

 

[smurfin]

Hey it wasn't me who mentioned Seth Green

I was just asking the pi$$ lol

Yeah, that was me.
And I wasn't trying to be funny, I just merge Seth Campbell and Steely Green's names together.