List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8

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New thread

List Mgmt. - Trade & Free Agency Part 9

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[SumTingWong]

Just read a rumour we’re inquiring about will phillips from north melb

A rumour you say? Lock it in.

 

[scarecrow2k1]

Adelaide attracted Dawson and Rankine. Rankine on about $850k and Dawson I am unsure, but probably not more than that. Those guys are a clear level up from Stengle.

Salary has significantly levelled up too. 10% this year and 37% over the life of the CBA.
The specifics of this proposed deal would be important but could mean he's getting paid significantly less than them relative to average salary - and they likely had provisions included to cover increases.

I think this all highlights that people are getting really fired up or excited over an 800k amount that has been plucked out of thin air and would change wildly depending on the structure of the contract.

 

[LTT]

Somebody will make Graham an offer

Everybody loves a freebie

Adelaide need some halfway decent inside mids

 

[Meteoric Rise]

No way we’d consider a failed Roos mid, surely? We’ve got Dow, Sonsie, McAuliffe, Ross, TT, Hopper and Bolton (and maybe Baker) needing midfield time 2025 onwards … not to mention whomever we get at pick-2/3 this draft…..

Phillips had a dozen touches in the VFL on the weekend … avoid!!


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Not sure what exactly has gone wrong with Will Phillips this year, but he has some very good attributes that kid, and his 2023 was not too bad for a player turning 21. He has to be worth taking a low cost punt on given our need for future inside mids, unless something is known about him that says he is definitely not making it. He is only 4th year this year(roughly Dow 2023 age.)

Failing at North Melbourne may not mean a lot. Mason Wood did that is a genuinely good player now. Ben Brown played in a flag after struggling badly at North for a season or two. There are plenty of similar stories of players struggling to establish at one not very strong club then doing very well elsewhere. Grigg, Houli for us. Some of those Brisbane guys like Crisp, Yeo, Docherty may not have set the world on fire early. Plenty of others.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Idk about this Stengel talk, why do I have the feeling he’ll turn to crap if he comes to us. Our players usually play better at other clubs when they’ve left.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Upgrade to 3 top 20 picks thanks.

1 mid/fwd, 1 KPF, 1 inside mid

 

[Drunken Wookie]

View attachment 2018000

We should bring him home

Was only a couple years ago he was a skinny little runt you'd struggle to imagine him putting on enough beef to cope at AFL level. Goes to Geelong and he's Lou Ferrigno. Will say it again, there's something deeply sus about the Cats.

 

[tiger_tough]

Idk about this Stengel talk, why do I have the feeling he’ll turn to crap if he comes to us. Our players usually play better at other clubs when they’ve left.

Who?

Deledio? Nah
BEllis? Nah.
CEllis? Nah
Callum Moore? Nah
Menadue? Nah
Naish? Nah
Stengle? At cats, yeah but not at Crows.
Townsend? Nah.
Miles? Nah.
Lloyd Nah.
Conca? Much the same.
Vickery? Nah.
Higgins? Meh, he was ready to step up right when he requested a trade like a coward. Butler? Played well on the weekend but is a fringe player at Saints.
CCJ? Massive spud at Norf.
Chol? Much the same.
Markov? Won a flag but he's average af. Biggie? Can't get a game at Norf.
Soldo? Yeah but he was never going to get the opportunity here.

Can't think of any others....

 

[Noidnadroj]

Not sure what exactly has gone wrong with Will Phillips this year, but he has some very good attributes that kid, and his 2023 was not too bad for a player turning 21. He has to be worth taking a low cost punt on given our need for future inside mids, unless something is known about him that says he is definitely not making it. He is only 4th year this year(roughly Dow 2023 age.)

Failing at North Melbourne may not mean a lot. Mason Wood did that is a genuinely good player now. Ben Brown played in a flag after struggling badly at North for a season or two. There are plenty of similar stories of players struggling to establish at one not very strong club then doing very well elsewhere. Grigg, Houli for us. Some of those Brisbane guys like Crisp, Yeo, Docherty may not have set the world on fire early. Plenty of others.

I don’t mind taking a low cost punt, I just don’t think he fills a need as a 181cm mid. TT and Hopper have 5-years left as starting inside mids. Then there’s Dow and McAuliffe as inside mids. And arguably Ross.

I’ve always thought you only bring players in to your club who command a best-18 position and basically never play VFL. Houli, Grigg, Nank, Caddy, Lynch, Prestia, TT, Hopper etc… all filled that criteria.

Who didn’t come in as commanding a best-18 spot? Petterd. Miller. Kosi. Lonergan. Maric. Miller. Hislop. Banfield. Thomas. Moore. Marcon. Naismith … plus a few more I’m sure.

You could argue Miles and Townsend worked out, but it’s pretty baron when you bring in fringe players from other clubs.

If we are not injury riddled Philips isn’t playing early rounds 2025. I’d put list mgt focus elsewhere… small mids without elite traits aren’t taking us anywhere.



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[tiger_tough]

Just read a post on the dees board that they should trade May and Viney to Norf for pick 1...

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Who?

Deledio? Nah
BEllis? Nah.
CEllis? Nah
Callum Moore? Nah
Menadue? Nah
Naish? Nah
Stengle? At cats, yeah but not at Crows.
Townsend? Nah.
Miles? Nah.
Lloyd Nah.
Conca? Much the same.
Vickery? Nah.
Higgins? Meh, he was ready to step up right when he requested a trade like a coward. Butler? Played well on the weekend but is a fringe player at Saints.
CCJ? Massive spud at Norf.
Chol? Much the same.
Markov? Won a flag but he's average af. Biggie? Can't get a game at Norf.
Soldo? Yeah but he was never going to get the opportunity here.

Can't think of any others....

Jay Schulz and Matthew White played their best footy at Port Adelaide.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don’t mind taking a low cost punt, I just don’t think he fills a need as a 181cm mid. TT and Hopper have 5-years left as starting inside mids. Then there’s Dow and McAuliffe as inside mids. And arguably Ross.

I’ve always thought you only bring players in to your club who command a best-18 position and basically never play VFL. Houli, Grigg, Nank, Caddy, Lynch, Prestia, TT, Hopper etc… all filled that criteria.

Who didn’t come in as commanding a best-18 spot? Petterd. Miller. Kosi. Lonergan. Maric. Miller. Hislop. Banfield. Thomas. Moore. Marcon. Naismith … plus a few more I’m sure.

You could argue Miles and Townsend worked out, but it’s pretty baron when you bring in fringe players from other clubs.

If we are not injury riddled Philips isn’t playing early rounds 2025. I’d put list mgt focus elsewhere… small mids without elite traits aren’t taking us anywhere.



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You have pick 45 say for argument's sake.

You go to the draft you take your chances since 2000 on the list of players below - all the pick 45's since 2000.

Or you take say $350k salary x 3 years contract, and trade pick 45 to North for Will Phillips. Pick 45 at the draft is probably I am guessing a 3-1 chance at best to play 100 games for your club in any role. Will Phillips(if nothing to say otherwise is known about him) is probably no longer odds than that to play 100+ as an inside mid? Much more valuable than 100 games in a random role.

That list of failed players brought in from other clubs doesn't really contain a similar profile player to Will Phillips - an inside mid who was rated very highly in his draft year and is not yet fully developed for the role so may well have good upside. Of all those you listed I think Moore was the only high draft pick in that lot but by the came to us he was a fully exposed 24yo failure.

But as to that, let's have a bit of a look at the last couple of Premiership teams....

Stengle, Frampton, Stanley, Markov, Cameron, Lipinski, Crisp

And for the beaten Grand Finalists:

Clark, Hickey, P McCartin, McKenna, Ah Chee, McCarthy, Lyons

That is right, the last 4 Grand Final teams contained a combined 14 players who had failed for whatever various reasons to nail down a regular spot for their previous team before departing, and that is not even counting guys like Hill, Hoskin-Elliott etc who were shaky at times.

So surely you don't want Richmond FC looking at that and saying we are not recruiting these guys because Andrew Moore etc didn't turn out for us 10 years ago?

All these things have to be value judgements. No one strategy should be ruled in or out completely, just each option weighed against each other option with each resource - cap funds and draft picks.

Let's go a step further and see who is getting a fairly regular game for the top 6 teams currently:

1. Swans - Jordon, Grundy, and Francis providing useful KPP relief
2. Blues - Acres, Kennedy, Newman, Hollands, Fantasia, Fogarty
3. Bombers - Caldwell, Martin(rejected by Suns) Hind, Wright, Duursma, and Setterfield providing useful relief
4. Port - Zerk, Esava, Finlayson, Soldo, and Sweet some useful relief
5. Cats - Stengle, O Henry, Bruhn, Bowes, Stanley, Rohan
6. Pies - Lipinski, Crisp, D Cameron, Frampton, Hoskin-Elliott, Markov and now Kruger providing some useful relief.

17. Tigers - Nankervis, and Koschitzke some relief and that is it, those are the only players brought in from other clubs who were not nailed on best 22 at their club when we recruited them.

The top 6 clubs average over 4 per team. We have 1 and we sit 17th.

If the club has no reason to think Will Phillips could not possibly make it they would be mad not to be considering trying to recruit him.

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

Never heard of him
What possie he play?

Reserves

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Bugger the Jack Graham compo, Stengle would be awesome to have back. $800k they reckon it'll take. Apparently doesn't love living in Geelong.

No thanks.
He left us once.

 

[wegetpumped]

No thanks.
He left us once.

Not really we showed him the door! Be handy right now

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Not really we showed him the door! Be handy right now

Did we?
That's the case he'll tell us where to go.lol

 

[_RT_]

If we went after Stengle I wouldn't be happy with anything over $650k a season. He's a small forward who doesn't really play elsewhere on the ground. He isn't a need IMO and depending on if Graham leaves as a free agent I'd prefer to keep the Graham compo and use that to get a young kid in.

 

[richoplzbreed]

I hope Tim English and Cam Zurhaar stay so their FA compensation doesn't come in as 1st rounders. All other FA are pretty average. Preying Freo the bed remainder of the season to give us way earlier picks too. I hope we go defcon 1 and bid on Ashcroft, Lombard, Camporeale, Welsh the lot. And how poetic would it be to take Issac Kako at pick 39 to shaft the Bummers. I can see North trading pick 1 cos they hardly need another gun mid?

 

[Muddiemoose]

Reserves

Yeah i had a bit of a look last night

Seems like he’s a decent “prospect” but definitely hasn’t delivered on any of the hype

looks like he’s had some injury and health issues that could be a factor but not really a player I would be interested in unless it’s for an absolute bargain basement trade

If it’s anything decent in the first or second round they want for him I would prefer we just take a ping with the draft packs

 

[Barunga Bullet]

Jay Schulz and Matthew White played their best footy at Port Adelaide.

Go Back further, Maxfield, Ottens, Craig Lambert, Merenda. Some play better at a new home, others don't

 

[SleepingGiant]

You forgot us making

Who?

Deledio? Nah
BEllis? Nah.
CEllis? Nah
Callum Moore? Nah
Menadue? Nah
Naish? Nah
Stengle? At cats, yeah but not at Crows.
Townsend? Nah.
Miles? Nah.
Lloyd Nah.
Conca? Much the same.
Vickery? Nah.
Higgins? Meh, he was ready to step up right when he requested a trade like a coward. Butler? Played well on the weekend but is a fringe player at Saints.
CCJ? Massive spud at Norf.
Chol? Much the same.
Markov? Won a flag but he's average af. Biggie? Can't get a game at Norf.
Soldo? Yeah but he was never going to get the opportunity here.

Can't think of any others....

You forgot us making Caddy better than Geelong!

 

[SleepingGiant]

Go Back further, Maxfield, Ottens, Craig Lambert, Merenda. Some play better at a new home, others don't

Caddy and 3 flags

 

[Noidnadroj]

You have pick 45 say for argument's sake.

You go to the draft you take your chances since 2000 on the list of players below - all the pick 45's since 2000.

Or you take say $350k salary x 3 years contract, and trade pick 45 to North for Will Phillips. Pick 45 at the draft is probably I am guessing a 3-1 chance at best to play 100 games for your club in any role. Will Phillips(if nothing to say otherwise is known about him) is probably no longer odds than that to play 100+ as an inside mid? Much more valuable than 100 games in a random role.

That list of failed players brought in from other clubs doesn't really contain a similar profile player to Will Phillips - an inside mid who was rated very highly in his draft year and is not yet fully developed for the role so may well have good upside. Of all those you listed I think Moore was the only high draft pick in that lot but by the came to us he was a fully exposed 24yo failure.

But as to that, let's have a bit of a look at the last couple of Premiership teams....

Stengle, Frampton, Stanley, Markov, Cameron, Lipinski, Crisp

And for the beaten Grand Finalists:

Clark, Hickey, P McCartin, McKenna, Ah Chee, McCarthy, Lyons

That is right, the last 4 Grand Final teams contained a combined 14 players who had failed for whatever various reasons to nail down a regular spot for their previous team before departing, and that is not even counting guys like Hill, Hoskin-Elliott etc who were shaky at times.

So surely you don't want Richmond FC looking at that and saying we are not recruiting these guys because Andrew Moore etc didn't turn out for us 10 years ago?

All these things have to be value judgements. No one strategy should be ruled in or out completely, just each option weighed against each other option with each resource - cap funds and draft picks.

Let's go a step further and see who is getting a fairly regular game for the top 6 teams currently:

1. Swans - Jordon, Grundy, and Francis providing useful KPP relief
2. Blues - Acres, Kennedy, Newman, Hollands, Fantasia, Fogarty
3. Bombers - Caldwell, Martin(rejected by Suns) Hind, Wright, Duursma, and Setterfield providing useful relief
4. Port - Zerk, Esava, Finlayson, Soldo, and Sweet some useful relief
5. Cats - Stengle, O Henry, Bruhn, Bowes, Stanley, Rohan
6. Pies - Lipinski, Crisp, D Cameron, Frampton, Hoskin-Elliott, Markov and now Kruger providing some useful relief.

17. Tigers - Nankervis, and Koschitzke some relief and that is it, those are the only players brought in from other clubs who were not nailed on best 22 at their club when we recruited them.

The top 6 clubs average over 4 per team. We have 1 and we sit 17th.

If the club has no reason to think Will Phillips could not possibly make it they would be mad not to be considering trying to recruit him.




View attachment 2018227

Not many of the players you’ve listed from other teams were brought in with the thought they were not best-18. And contending teams are different to rebuilding / regenerating teams.

North are a case in point … a rebuilding club who’ve secured fringey type / C-grade players galore over the last 5-years. Greenwood, Shiels in their midfield as an example … these guys are one of the reasons Philips hasn’t been playing and developing every week for the last 4-years. Over the last few years fringey players like this have gotten games ahead of Philips / Powell / Lazarro etc… and for what?

We already can’t give the likes of Sonsie any midfield time … and that’s with Hopper and Ross injured. So assuming we add at least 1 x elite midfielder in the draft, what then? Sonsie potentially gets shunted to a HFF for another season, because I’m pretty certain Philips is a pure midfielder.

And Philips isn’t free. He was a pick-3. We’d need to facilitate a trade using a late 2nd or thereabouts … we got McAuliffe at 40….

Anyway … I’d avoid Philips and focus on other positional needs and the draft. This is not to say Philips won’t turn into a decent AFL player .. but decent midfielders don’t win you finals.



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[Karp3_dm]

Why pay Stengle 800k when Stacky will do it for a Spearmint rhino VIP subscription and a contract worth of Kebabs

 

[smurfin]

I'm assuming Gray and Blight stay on the list for next year - both showing potential and deserve the time to convince us.
Grimes has to be 99% likely to retire. Think Prestia will join him, poor old Naismith must be gone.
That leaves us with 1 list spot. Mate Collina has to go, but unsure if Cat B counts as an extra spot so will assume that opens up nothing.
1 list spot with currently 5 picks in the top 50, another 4 picks after that still with points.
Presuming no-one seeks a trade and no other clubs come asking, how many do we delist? At the moment I would say in rough order of likely delisting we have:

Matthew Coulthard
Seth Green
Noah Cumberland
..then it becomes even trickier...possible trades/free agency?
Samson Ryan?
Thomson Dow?
Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

24

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

?
Marlon Pickett?
Kamden McIntosh?
James Tresize?
Kaleb Smith?

What happens if say Brisbane is definitely interested in our late picks for points, but doesn't want to open up extra list spots to be able to take our 6 or so rubbish picks for points into the draft?
Is it our problem to open up 6 or so list spots so we can bring our picks to the draft and live trade?
And, do we yet know what the supposed draft rule changes for next year are yet? Is trading unused 2nd or 3rd rounders into next year still a reasonable strategy?
As well as uptrading for points, do we look at teams like Essendon & Hawthorn with only 2 decent picks and see if they are interested in downgrading one of their high picks for 2 lower picks?