Ukraine on verge of civil war?

[ChampRevesby]

The only way this could have been avoided is when the Soviet Union collapsed was to repatriate the ethnics Russian (largest population in Crmiea) back to Russia. Russians have very deep roots in the region, now Putin wants them back in the fold and also reduce NATOs influence in and around his southern border.

 

[Zidane98]

They'll get to them, Latvia and Finland as well some old scores to be settled. Poland would be watching this whole situation very nervously as well.

Poland will never come under Russian influence again, that ended badly for them.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Poland will never come under Russian influence again, that ended badly for them.

To be honest I don't think Russian will go after Estonian, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland as they are already part of the EU and this is all about stopping Ukraine from doing the same and sending a message to any of the others thinking about it.

 

[ChampRevesby]

To be honest I don't think Russian will go after Estonian, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland as they are already part of the EU and this is all about stopping Ukraine from doing the same and sending a message to any of the others thinking about it.

Russia don't have interest in Eastern Europe, the understanding after the fall of The USSR was that they would break apart without NATO incursions into the Baltic region.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Poland will never come under Russian influence again, that ended badly for them.

The Russians or the Poles? I don't think the Russians give a shit how it worked out for the Poles. The Finns are the ones the Russians would be wary about.

 

[Zidane98]

The only way this could have been avoided is when the Soviet Union collapsed was to repatriate the ethnics Russian (largest population in Crmiea) back to Russia. Russians have very deep roots in the region, now Putin wants them back in the fold and also reduce NATOs influence in and around his southern border.

Why do they need to be repatriated? There's still plenty of ethnic Germans living in Kalinigrad who are doing just fine. No different to ethnic Russians living in other countries.

Crimean Tartars up until the Russians took over in 2014 were also returning to their homeland in large numbers. Unfortunately they are now treated very poorly by Russian occupiers.

 

[Zidane98]

Story of a resident who fled in 2014 and returned to Donetsk for a visit:

Ukraine crisis: Long journey home to rebel-run Donetsk

One resident returns to their home city in rebel-held east Ukraine, as tensions with Russia rise.

www.bbc.com

Pretty heartbreaking. And the DNR now have complete control over the region so do as they please. As they are backed by the Russians they will almost never relinquish control unless in the unlikely event Putin says enough is enough and pulls out or formally annexes the region making it part of Russia which unfortunately he seemingly has no interest in doing.

 

[ChampRevesby]

Why do they need to be repatriated? There's still plenty of ethnic Germans living in Kalinigrad who are doing just fine. No different to ethnic Russians living in other countries.

Crimean Tartars up until the Russians took over in 2014 were also returning to their homeland in large numbers. Unfortunately they are now treated very poorly by Russian occupiers.

Same deal as Crimea, should have paid (i.e cost of repatriation) the Russians to leave Konigsberg, massive mistake to leave Kaliningrad as it, it will likely end in conflict (given history in the region as a guide). The Cossacks are naturally weary of ex-soviets (ref Holodomor), although their Russian allegiances are still pretty deep (in ref to Tsarist Russian Empire).

Ref Konigsberg: it was the HQ of the baltic fleet so the Russians were never going to leave.

 

[Zidane98]

Same deal as Crimea, should have paid (i.e cost of repatriation) the Russians to leave Konigsberg, massive mistake to leave Kaliningrad as it, it will likely end in conflict (given history in the region as a guide). The Cossacks are naturally weary of ex-soviets (ref Holodomor), although their Russian allegiances are still pretty deep (in ref to Tsarist Russian Empire).

Ref Konigsberg: it was the HQ of the baltic fleet so the Russians were never going to leave.

How will Kalingrad end in conflict? Most of the German population left after WW2. There's still a sizeable German population left but I seriously doubt Germany are going to reabsorb Kalingrad into Germany.

Borders change, countries change. No reason why ethnic Russians need to leave other countries after the USSR breakup.

 

[ChampRevesby]

How will Kalingrad end in conflict? Most of the German population left after WW2. There's still a sizeable German population left but I seriously doubt Germany are going to reabsorb Kalingrad into Germany.

Borders change, countries change. No reason why ethnic Russians need to leave other countries after the USSR breakup.

Prussian Empire is long dead, Poland have more of a legit claim over this region than Germany. Given its a magnet for Russian migrants, it wont be long before Russia starts to have a another look in the region (which NATO would have more concern than Crimea). These ethnic tensions are the story and history of Europe.

 

[DaRick]

Russia's pretty much already done those things in the Donbass. Ukraine isn't effectively 2 countries either. The majority of Donbass population have fled and the majority have chosen to remain within Ukraine. Most of the pro russian sentiment is sewn by Russia itself - the first thing that was done as soon as the rebels took over was to seize control of all media.

Putin has no interest in defending the inhabitants of those regions either. If he did he wouldn't be sending in Russian military assets covertly who launch attacks on Ukranian positions from civilian areas. The peak of this stupidity obviously was the shooting down of MH17 where his military operating unofficially decided to start shooting randomly at any target in the sky with BUK missiles on the off chance they may be a Ukrainian transport plane. Only in the world of Russian propaganda is Putin doing anything to help the inhabitants of Donbass. The reality is the opposite and the reason why so many fled the region and were displaced within Ukraine.

Putin now be going all in on Ukraine so he can once again have a puppet regime installed and use the country as an extension of Russia at his pleasure. But the people of Ukraine in general have been fighting this for quite some time and the overall sentiment is against Russian influence. Interesting to see if he can overcome that sentiment and retake Ukraine again. Maybe he can bring back his friend Yanukovich to run the country.

RE your points:

1) Truth be told, Western Ukraine has always been different from the East in broad terms. The West has always been more pro-Western and speaks Ukrainian as a first language, but it's also poorer than the East. Eastern Ukraine has always been more pro-Russian, more Russophone and wealthier (I've acknowledged exceptions, like Sumy). The disparity in votes in the 2010 Presidental election in this regard is instructive, with Donetsk/Lugansk in particular voting for the Russophone, more pro-Russian candidate (Yanukovych) over the Ukrainian, relatively pro-Western Tymoshenko. It's therefore not too surprising that those areas would form pro-Russian separatist republics if they felt sufficienty threatened by Kiev.

2) I'm not shocked that people would elect to flee war zones, and I don't doubt that many people in Donetsk/Lugansk didn't necessarily wish to be independent outright, or be part of Russia (Crimea definitely did/does, though). As I've pointed out above, however, that doesn't necessarily mean that they want to be ruled over by a Ukrainian-speaking, pro-Western/anti-Russian regime. One that originally came to power in 2014 with the help of literal neo-Nazis (I know the Presidents have changed, but the regime itself fundamentally hasn't). I don't think Putin is a saint either - geopolitics doesn't have many of those - but geez...

3) There was a reason why I used scare quotes when I wrote the word 'defend'. I know full well that Putin is fundamentally cold-blooded, self-interested and pragmatic, and I agree that his main concern is defending Russia's interests - the people of Donbass/Lugansk are a secondary consideration. However, given the South Ossetian precedent, I have no doubt that Putin would gladly accept any 'invitation' from them to secure their territory, and I don't doubt that they'd extend such an invitation, or at least reach an 'agreement' in that respect.

4) I pointed out before that Putin had a chance to do that in Georgia, but he didn't. Why not? He certainly had the means; Georgia had soundly been defeated militarily. Because for all of his flaws, he isn't into installing and then stabilising puppet/friendly regimes in other countries via military force (Chechnya was different because it was de jure part of Russia and Chechen Islamists were attacking Russian territory). Being a cold-blooded pragmatist, he knows all too well that it is a costly and often counter-productive exercise (USSR in Afghanistan in the 1980's; US in South Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan).

Based on the South Ossetian precedent, what will happen instead is that the Russians go in, secure Donbass/Lugansk, beat the Ukrainians around for a bit, then stop short of Kiev and go back to Donbass/Lugansk. They're more interested in 'sending a message' than overthrowing overseas regimes.

5) Contrary to popular belief, Putin didn't really care for Yanukovych. He saw him as being too sympathetic to the EU/West. He only helped him out because the alternatives (Yushchenko/Poroshenko) were openly hostile.

And Lithuania

The Baltics were a liability to the USSR; why would Putin want direct control over them again?

To be honest I don't think Russian will go after Estonian, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland as they are already part of the EU and this is all about stopping Ukraine from doing the same and sending a message to any of the others thinking about it.

The idea that Putin will directly go after Finland is IMO fantastical. At most, he'll run interference for his preferred candidate.

FTR, I actually agree with the pro-Democrat side that he tried that in the 2016 US election, because 1) being a great power, Russia had the resources and 2) Russia had a motive for doing so - Putin loathed Hillary and saw Trump as potentially being less threatening to Russia's interests. However, unlike them, I don't think it had any real influence on the eventual outcome, much like how I don't think electoral fraud was a real factor in deciding the 2020 US election.

Why do they need to be repatriated? There's still plenty of ethnic Germans living in Kalinigrad who are doing just fine. No different to ethnic Russians living in other countries.

Crimean Tartars up until the Russians took over in 2014 were also returning to their homeland in large numbers. Unfortunately they are now treated very poorly by Russian occupiers.

Define 'very poorly'. While admittedly a token gesture, Tatar was made an official language after Crimea de facto rejoined Russia. Also, Crimean Tatars having mixed feelings about Crimea de facto joining Russia does not necessarily mean that they appreciate pro-Ukrainian Crimean Tatar activists cutting their power* - much like people in Adani territory didn't appreciate Greens activists bringing a large convoy into QLD to lecture them, even though both groups were Australian.

My own assessment is that Crimea was neglected somewhat by Ukraine, partially because Ukraine has generally been an economic basket case since independence, but also because Crimea was something of a rogue region, having long desired independence from Ukraine. No doubt Ukraine responded less than charitably, much like they did when Crimea de facto rejoined Russia in 2014.

This Al-Jazeera article, written by someone who isn't exactly a Putin acolyte, suggests that while Crimea joining Russia hasn't exactly been smooth sailing, that Russia has indeed spent considerable amounts of money improving Crimea's infrastructure.

The Kremlin spent tens of billions of dollars on infrastructure projects in Crimea such as the $3.7bn, 19 kilometre-long bridge linking the peninsula to mainland Russia.

It splashed lavishly on new highways and hospitals, power plants, transmission lines and subsidies for Crimea’s rapidly swelling population of more than 2.5 million.

*Note that the journalist was obviously a Westerner and the Kiev Post is obviously not going to be pro-Putin.

I'm not a fan of expansionist powers but to go from bankruptcy to conqueror is pretty incredible. The EU must be kicking itself it hadn't done more in eastern europe, failed in central asia and will make the same mistake in africa.

TBH, RE Russia and Africa (and China by extension) the West mostly have themselves to blame.

The West were actually reasonably comfortable with Putin's ascension at first, because he was quite close to Yeltsin, and he wasn't a communist or an ultranationalist. For the first few years US-Russia relations weren't too bad, and apparently Putin was open to joining NATO, albeit under his terms. Then the neocons developed an influence over ol' George, and his administration invaded Iraq before sponsoring various colour revolutions in Russia's region wherein pro-West/anti-Russian regimes came into power (Georgia, Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan) which obviously annoyed Putin.

Then there was Barack and his 'pivot to Asia', wherein China were implicitly treated as a potential belligerent, which annoyed them as well and gave Russia/China common cause against the US.

RE Africa, one of their shrewdest leaders, Rwanda's Paul Kagame, got to the heart of the matter - he said that Africans preferred the Chinese over the West because the Chinese actually built stuff, rather than simply talking about doing stuff (Bush's PEPFAR initiative excepted), and were less inclined to interfere in their internal affairs.

Guess who else likes talking without delivering (e.g. phantom bushfire relief) and interfering in state affairs? ScoMo.

 

[Zidane98]

The Neo-Nazi angle is just rubbish propaganda from the Russians. Far right parties have never had much success in Ukranian parliament and talk of Neo Nazis is effectively a Russian propaganda tool (a poor one at that) designed to try and undermine a Ukranian government that no longer wanted to be beholden to Russia any longer.


Yanukovych is absolutely not a western sympathiser either, he was very much Putin's henchman.

 

[awaremind]

Media is going mad right now, if the Russians read the western press, they will see it is doing its best to prepare us for war. No wonder they are posturing in a defensive but ready to strike back stance.

The British press must be worried that 40 Russian battleships probably nuclear armed are having exercises 200 miles off the Irish coast. I’d be considering a holiday to the country if I was in London. Just in case. if it kicks off in ukraine there’s a possibility it leads to a ww3 in which China invades Australia too.

 

[awaremind]

The Neo-Nazi angle is just rubbish propaganda from the Russians. Far right parties have never had much success in Ukranian parliament and talk of Neo Nazis is effectively a Russian propaganda tool (a poor one at that) designed to try and undermine a Ukranian government that no longer wanted to be beholden to Russia any longer.


Yanukovych is absolutely not a western sympathiser either, he was very much Putin's henchman.

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church in perth was flying a “right sektor” flag alongside the Ukrainian one in 2014 /15 , haven’t driven by recently, but that was interesting to observe. Also I followed thier Facebook groups to observe them back then and they were definately a thing and they claimed the revolution as theirs. Not the only ones, the US state department among others claimed to have the right to choose their desired president to replace yanukovic. Not klitchsko .. f the EU - Victoria Nuland ( who is back surprise surprise )

 

[DaRick]

The Neo-Nazi angle is just rubbish propaganda from the Russians. Far right parties have never had much success in Ukranian parliament and talk of Neo Nazis is effectively a Russian propaganda tool (a poor one at that) designed to try and undermine a Ukranian government that no longer wanted to be beholden to Russia any longer.


Yanukovych is absolutely not a western sympathiser either, he was very much Putin's henchman.

Then the Russians must have an incredibly wide influence, considering that the following organisations have noted the same phenomenon:

Five years ago, Ukraine’s Maidan uprising ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, to the cheers and support of the West. Politicians and analysts in the United States and Europe not only celebrated the uprising as a triumph of democracy, but denied reports of Maidan’s ultranationalism, smearing those who warned about the dark side of the uprising as Moscow puppets and useful idiots. Freedom was on the march in Ukraine.

Today, increasing reports of far-right violence, ultranationalism, and erosion of basic freedoms are giving the lie to the West’s initial euphoria. There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.

These stories of Ukraine’s dark nationalism aren’t coming out of Moscow; they’re being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity.

As reported by The Nation, a left-wing American publication which, while often critical of US foreign policy, certainly wouldn't normally be positively predisposed towards someone like Putin.

Also, Freedom House has consistently ranked Russia very low in terms of political and civil rights since 2005, so they're not exactly pro-Putin, either.

WikiLeaks outright stated that Putin didn't care for Yanukovych. I don't think that was because Yanukovych was an unimpeachably loyal henchman. Putin only preferred him because the alternative (Yushchenko/Poroshenko) was outright anti-Russian.

Yanukovych TBH strikes me as more of a triangulator than Putin's Smithers - trying to please everybody but winding up pleasing nobody. That approach is understandable, but difficult to pull off in practice.

 

[Zidane98]

Then the Russians must have an incredibly wide influence, considering that the following organisations have noted the same phenomenon:



As reported by The Nation, a left-wing American publication which, while often critical of US foreign policy, certainly wouldn't normally be positively predisposed towards someone like Putin.

Also, Freedom House has consistently ranked Russia very low in terms of political and civil rights since 2005, so they're not exactly pro-Putin, either.

WikiLeaks outright stated that Putin didn't care for Yanukovych. I don't think that was because Yanukovych was an unimpeachably loyal henchman. Putin only preferred him because the alternative (Yushchenko/Poroshenko) was outright anti-Russian.

Yanukovych TBH strikes me as more of a triangulator than Putin's Smithers - trying to please everybody but winding up pleasing nobody. That approach is understandable, but difficult to pull off in practice.

The nation? Really?





You would probably get less biased coverage from rt.com on this!!


Russia has far more neo nazi problems than Ukraine. Leadership of the DPR are known Neo Nazis!!!


It's pretty clear that Russia are the main peddlers of the neo nazi line. It's simply nonsense, always has been.

 

[Zidane98]

Meanwhile in Russia:

Neo-Nazis Are a Threat to Russia, Polish Analyst Says

About this blog Window on Eurasia covers current events in Russia and the nations of the former Soviet Union, with a focus on issues of ethnicity and religion.

www.themoscowtimes.com

And Russia defending Neo Nazi groups!!!

Russian ‘Terrorists’ Training German Neo-Nazi Youth in Combat – Reports - The Moscow Times

Young right-wing extremists from Germany are receiving combat training from Russian white supremacists whom the United States has blacklisted as terrorists, Germany’s Focus news magazine reported Friday.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Russia claiming to defend Ukranians from Neo Nazis is absolute hogwash.


Even Ukraine's Jewish community largely rubbished the claims

Ukraine Jews refute Russia's 'neo-Nazi' claims

Despite recent attack on rabbi, Ukraine's Jewish leaders attempt to dispel allegations: 'There's a difference between nationalism and Nazism.'

www.ynetnews.com

 

[DaRick]

The nation? Really?

View attachment 1316159



You would probably get less biased coverage from rt.com on this!!


Russia has far more neo nazi problems than Ukraine. Leadership of the DPR are known Neo Nazis!!!


It's pretty clear that Russia are the main peddlers of the neo nazi line. It's simply nonsense, always has been.

I'm not saying Russia doesn't have its own issues with Neo-Nazis, but there's a difference between your nation having some issues with Neo-Nazis and your nation's government knowingly tolerating them within its military/law enforcement apparatus.

The DC establishment’s standard defense of Kiev is to point out that Ukraine’s far right has a smaller percentage of seats in the parliament than their counterparts in places like France. That’s a spurious argument: What Ukraine’s far right lacks in polls numbers, it makes up for with things Marine Le Pen could only dream of—paramilitary units and free rein on the streets.

Post-Maidan Ukraine is the world’s only nation to have a neo-Nazi formation in its armed forces. The Azov Battalion was initially formed out of the neo-Nazi gang Patriot of Ukraine. Andriy Biletsky, the gang’s leader who became Azov’s commander, once wrote that Ukraine’s mission is to “lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade…against the Semite-led Untermenschen.” Biletsky is now a deputy in Ukraine’s parliament.

You might not trust The Nation specifically, but about a billion other sources verify the existence of the Azov Battalion within Ukraine's military/law enforcement apparatus, and its ties to neo-Nazism. So I sincerely doubt that such accusations are spurious.

RE the article you posted, it was posted in 2014, in the wake of Yanukovych being ousted, when the Ukrainian government's connection to neo-Nazis was far more nebulous and thus easier to deny. Mine was posted five years later, in 2019 - enough time to explore and expose such an influence.

RE The Donbass People's Republic, this is a tu quoque argument. The leadership of the DPR is shady, and do certainly court foreign far-right figures and sometimes outright neo-Nazis, but I couldn't find any evidence that they're neo-Nazis themselves, the DPR outright arrested a neo-Nazi who claimed governorship of Donetsk, and even The New York Times (again not exactly known as a bastion of Putinism) questioned claims of anti-Semitism against them.

The closest thing I could find to a neo-Nazi element within DPR's armed forces were Russian National Unity volunteer units...which operate independently, aren't formally part of DPR's military/law enforcement apparatus, and also operate alongside antifascist units.

Also, the DPR is not part of Russia, nor has it been recognised as a sovereign state by Russia. They're clearly two different entities despite their close alliance. By contrast, the Azov Batallion is not a different entity from Ukraine.

You've also failed to explain why Freedom House, an organisation that's been very critical of Putin's Russia, would willingly regurgiate Russian propoganda against Russia's opponents. Not to mention why organisations funded by Ukraine's American allies would do the very same. With respect, that makes zero sense.

TLDR; geopolitics is murky and there are unpleasant characters on both sides of this conflict, but the neo-Nazi link is clearer on Ukraine's side. However, with respect I don't think you see that because your distrust of Russia is clouding your judgment on this issue, like it does for many Westerners. I suspect it's because you haven't actually spoken to many Russians about Putin, and so you haven't benefited from a more balanced perspective on the issue. I actually have, and the vast majority of them explained that they liked him because they saw him as a guarantor of Russia's economic and personal security after the choatic Yeltsin years.

In truth, it's better that we agree to disagree.

 

[awaremind]

Then the Russians must have an incredibly wide influence, considering that the following organisations have noted the same phenomenon:



As reported by The Nation, a left-wing American publication which, while often critical of US foreign policy, certainly wouldn't normally be positively predisposed towards someone like Putin.

Also, Freedom House has consistently ranked Russia very low in terms of political and civil rights since 2005, so they're not exactly pro-Putin, either.

WikiLeaks outright stated that Putin didn't care for Yanukovych. I don't think that was because Yanukovych was an unimpeachably loyal henchman. Putin only preferred him because the alternative (Yushchenko/Poroshenko) was outright anti-Russian.

Yanukovych TBH strikes me less as more of a triangulator than Putin's Smithers - trying to please everybody but winding up pleasing nobody. That approach is understandable, but difficult to pull off in practice.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Neo Nazis, its a distraction. Its true that Ukraine has more of a presence but this is what Russia wants the west to be distracted on. They know identity politics is a key sticking point for the US, they know the kneejerk zeitgeist is to demonize anything even labeled Neo-Nazi, even if its massively overplayed, and immediately sympathize with their opponents.

Just shows that at the heart of everything is realpolitik and greed. Political correctness is mumbo jumbo to distract self obsessed people. If the USA can support child slaying, heart eating terrorists in Syria and a Ukrainian revolution led by neo nazis as long as they are “our guys on the ground” they are truly only interested in “full spectrum dominance” as they put it. Goody goody motives are for the fools at home.

 

[Zidane98]

I'm not saying Russia doesn't have its own issues with Neo-Nazis, but there's a difference between your nation having some issues with Neo-Nazis and your nation's government knowingly tolerating them within its military/law enforcement apparatus.



You might not trust The Nation specifically, but about a billion other sources verify the existence of the Azov Battalion within Ukraine's military/law enforcement apparatus, and its ties to neo-Nazism. So I sincerely doubt that such accusations are spurious.

RE the article you posted, it was posted in 2014, in the wake of Yanukovych being ousted, when the Ukrainian government's connection to neo-Nazis was far more nebulous and thus easier to deny. Mine was posted five years later, in 2019 - enough time to explore and expose such an influence.

RE The Donbass People's Republic, this is a tu quoque argument. The leadership of the DPR is shady, and do certainly court foreign far-right figures and sometimes outright neo-Nazis, but I couldn't find any evidence that they're neo-Nazis themselves, the DPR outright arrested a neo-Nazi who claimed governorship of Donetsk, and even The New York Times (again not exactly known as a bastion of Putinism) questioned claims of anti-Semitism against them.

The closest thing I could find to a neo-Nazi element within DPR's armed forces were Russian National Unity volunteer units...which operate independently, aren't formally part of DPR's military/law enforcement apparatus, and also operate alongside antifascist units.

Also, the DPR is not part of Russia, nor has it been recognised as a sovereign state by Russia. They're clearly two different entities despite their close alliance. By contrast, the Azov Batallion is not a different entity from Ukraine.
You've also failed to explain why Freedom House, an organisation that's been very critical of Putin's Russia, would willingly regurgiate Russian propoganda against Russia's opponents. Not to mention why organisations funded by Ukraine's American allies would do the very same. With respect, that makes zero sense.

TLDR; geopolitics is murky and there are unpleasant characters on both sides of this conflict, but the neo-Nazi link is clearer on Ukraine's side. However, with respect I don't think you see that because your distrust of Russia is clouding your judgment on this issue, like it does for many Westerners. I suspect it's because you haven't actually spoken to many Russians about Putin, and so you haven't benefited from a more balanced perspective on the issue. I actually have, and the vast majority of them explained that they liked him because they saw him as a guarantor of Russia's economic and personal security after the choatic Yeltsin years.

In truth, it's better that we agree to disagree.

You've got to be joking.

Putin’s Neo-Nazi Helpers

Russian TV has a new hero, “elected” by the people and persecuted for his beliefs by the new baddy regime in Kyiv. Pavel Gubarev is certainly pro-Russian and, as of March 6, in custody, but his neo-Nazi background, seemingly shared by some of his most vocal defenders, makes him a curious choice

khpg.org

Gubarev's a declared Neo Nazi, was a governor for the DPR. This is a guy directly backed by Moscow.

Ukraine is less neo nazi than Russia realistically. And on that note the famed azov batallion are a separate entity to the government. They have no say in governance. They are a bunch of volunteer thugs attempting to fight off Russians.

By the way nobody said Putin isnt doing a good job in Russia. He just needs to let Ukraine pursue its own future instead of trying to bring it back under Russian control.

 

[ChampRevesby]

The propaganda war on both sides is in full swing. Going to be interesting next few months.

 

[Zidane98]

Have never understood why Putin hasn't attempted to build bilateral relations with Ukraine. Thats not going to happen as long as the frozen conflict in Donbass continues.

 

[ChampRevesby]

Have never understood why Putin hasn't attempted to build bilateral relations with Ukraine. Thats not going to happen as long as the frozen conflict in Donbass continues.

Power, resources, ethnic in-group preference, historical ties to land... Basically the story of all of human history.

 

[awaremind]

Biden Might Get Hundreds of Millions Killed Over Ukraine - GeneralFlynn.com

General Flynn Biden Might Get Hundreds Of Millions Killed Over Ukraine

www.generalflynn.com

The rhetoric about the Ukraine conflict is out of control. President Joe Biden threatens that Russia would “pay a heavy price” for any incursion into Ukraine. Secretary of State Antony Blinken warns of “massive consequences” for Russia. Sen. Roger Wicker of Mississippi told Fox News’ Neil Cavuto, “We don’t rule out first-use nuclear action.” First-use nuclear action rhetoric is not only extremely dangerous, but these types of nonsensical remarks also threaten the stability of the entire world.

….
It should be obvious that there is no equivalency of interest here. None. NATO was established to preserve the peace, and it would be a tragedy of immense proportions if its threatened Eastern expansion would become the principal cause of a devastating war.

Let’s put the current conflict into a historical context. If President John Kennedy was justified in risking war to prevent nuclear missiles from being installed in Cuba in 1961, then why exactly is Russian President Vladimir Putin being reckless in risking war to prevent NATO weapons from being installed in Ukraine in 2022? Would any great nation allow the development of such a threat on its border?

Well written and wise article by general Flynn

 

[Zidane98]

Its incredibly ironic quoting a nothing quote by a senator of all peopke when Ukraine:

a) Disarmed itself completely of nukes in 1994. Turned over nuclear weapons to Russia after
b) Signing Budapest agreement which Russia agreed to take on nuclear weapons from former Soviet States on the basis that they respect the borders of those nations and do not attack those nations.

The major threat to Ukraine is Russia and its complete lack of respect for Ukranian independence & sovereignty. Putin is on record as saying Ukranian people are just Russians effectively dismissing Ukraniamian culture entirely.