VFL VFL 2024 - Geelong & the greater league

[D BRIDGE]

He had 38 disposals, 8 tackles, 7 clearances and 2 goals (166 fantasy points for those that care). Hardie could have 50 and kick 10 and there'd still be posters on this board looking for an excuse to drag him down.

I feel a bit for Hardie.

I mean like everyone here… I also can find faults in his game. He certainly isn’t perfect.

But neither are guys like Mullin, Parfitt, Knevitt, MOC, Clark… heck even COS got an early season run.

Good things has happened since we changed it up and got some well performed VFL guys into the side (Mannagh, Humphries and Knevitt).

Whilst I don’t think Hardie is B23… I don’t think a bunch of guy are either and they have copped plenty of games.

Hardie has performed about as good as anyone in our VFL and has been very consistent.

This shows me he is super fit.

I think we missed a chance to give him a birth in that Tigers game.

Not sure if he will get a debut.

I don’t think he is B23… But I still feel he has been a tad stiff and feel for him.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Sure. It's just we're playing better this season now that he's at back at half-back.

In future years, it's quite possible they're right, but it's not as if CS has never changed his mind.

I think we'll find a much better mix there once he can roll back to the midfield and we start rebounding through Humphries and Stewart returns.

 

[Gunf]

He had 38 disposals, 8 tackles, 7 clearances and 2 goals (166 fantasy points for those that care). Hardie could have 50 and kick 10 and there'd still be posters on this board looking for an excuse to drag him down.

In which way did i drag him down??

I said on todays game i wouldn't call him up as he made to many little mistakes that wouldn't be accepted at AFL.

I was a fan of calling him up earlier in the year when he was consistently getting votes from coaches and we obviously needed more mid depth. I wanted Clark dropped for him multiple times.

But as i said on todays game he was never getting called up both him and Parfitt turned the ball over so many times and in dangerous positions. And it wasn't just them MOC was turning it over a fair bit to even if he did look a class above this level.

 

[CHAWKTS]

COS i think will be better served by waiting till next year unless we need him due to injuries.

Mullin i like but he needs to back himself and learn what he is capable of and what he isn't. I liked the fact that today he got very ambitious a few times sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't but that is exactly what he needs to figure out as he is still learning the game and that is better to do in the VFL.

Willis i liked his game to day but i want to see him string together a block of 4-6 weeks of solid form but you are correct he showed some nice things today.

I wouldn't be calling any of them up atm but Clohesy would be the first as he has showed good form for a while now.

The only changes i would make to the team next week would be

In Knevitt out Clark
And maybe swap Henry and Rohan to make sure Rohan stays in top shape

Interesting that this week we might have very few changes being called for. Amazing what a couple of recent ins and a couple of wins does!

I am not 100% sure Knevitt will be available given Friday game (his family posted on FB something about needed the ok to get back to “light training”). If he isn’t back full training by Wednesday we might not have that “in” this week (which is a real shame).

I agree on Rohan at some stage needing to be managed via being sub but I suspect they might wait a few weeks or until he looks like he needs it? Same for 2E and Duncan I suspect. But as you highlight if we want to give Henry a full game it is hard to add him in without taking a forward out? Going to be interesting

 

[bombersboy]

he has been pretty close to being picked up in last seasons draft and this seasons mid-season draft

COS i think will be better served by waiting till next year unless we need him due to injuries.

Mullin i like but he needs to back himself and learn what he is capable of and what he isn't. I liked the fact that today he got very ambitious a few times sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't but that is exactly what he needs to figure out as he is still learning the game and that is better to do in the VFL.

Willis i liked his game to day but i want to see him string together a block of 4-6 weeks of solid form but you are correct he showed some nice things today.

I wouldn't be calling any of them up atm but Clohesy would be the first as he has showed good form for a while now.

The only changes i would make to the team next week would be

In Knevitt out Clark
And maybe swap Henry and Rohan to make sure Rohan stays in top shape

Barring a catastrophic run with injuries COS is 1-2 years away. At times he is found out for not being physically strong enough for VFL. He would get monstered at AFL level. Also needs to develop a tank. He is not helped by his running style, which makes him always look tired.

 

[kcattatac]

Barring a catastrophic run with injuries COS is 1-2 years away. At times he is found out for not being physically strong enough for VFL. He would get monstered at AFL level. Also needs to develop a tank. He is not helped by his running style, which makes him always look tired.

I agree with most of this but COS is an elite endurance runner so no need to develop a tank. Needs much more strength though

 

[cats_09]

IF Hardie was to earn a promotion to the seniors - what role would he be playing, because he does seem to be primarily playing as that in the guts midfielder at VFL level?

And if that promotion comes this week, which of the 4 midfielders who were preferred to be in at the centre bounces on the weekend would he be replacing?

It's easy to suggest Clark, but he primarily played on the wing in the role Knevitt would have played

So Hardie may have got his hands on the ball a fair bit yesterday, but maybe it's come at a time when we don't necessarily have an opening for that role in the seniors, especially as we seem to have really cut back on rotation in the guts

 

[Footy Smarts]

I would be stunned if they promote Hardie this week. He's had much more impressive games than this when we were more desperate for midfielders and he wasn't promoted then.

 

[Gunf]

Barring a catastrophic run with injuries COS is 1-2 years away. At times he is found out for not being physically strong enough for VFL. He would get monstered at AFL level. Also needs to develop a tank. He is not helped by his running style, which makes him always look tired.

I agree with him needing strength but his tank is actually really good.
Running style never hurt Taylor so that shouldn't matter

 

[CHAWKTS]

IF Hardie was to earn a promotion to the seniors - what role would he be playing, because he does seem to be primarily playing as that in the guts midfielder at VFL level?

And if that promotion comes this week, which of the 4 midfielders who were preferred to be in at the centre bounces on the weekend would he be replacing?

It's easy to suggest Clark, but he primarily played on the wing in the role Knevitt would have played

So Hardie may have got his hands on the ball a fair bit yesterday, but maybe it's come at a time when we don't necessarily have an opening for that role in the seniors, especially as we seem to have really cut back on rotation in the guts


View attachment 2042439

Agree entirely.

I was shocked when I looked at the CBA numbers - this is a distinct change for us. Really just used 4 midfielders with some chops outs…

And I think it works. In that context I think Clark gets squeezed out as there are better wing options (Bltiz, Knevitt with Duncan and 2E and even Mannagh/Miers).

 

[D BRIDGE]

IF Hardie was to earn a promotion to the seniors - what role would he be playing, because he does seem to be primarily playing as that in the guts midfielder at VFL level?

And if that promotion comes this week, which of the 4 midfielders who were preferred to be in at the centre bounces on the weekend would he be replacing?

It's easy to suggest Clark, but he primarily played on the wing in the role Knevitt would have played

So Hardie may have got his hands on the ball a fair bit yesterday, but maybe it's come at a time when we don't necessarily have an opening for that role in the seniors, especially as we seem to have really cut back on rotation in the guts

Hardie isn't going to get a run.

But if in some weird world where he did... if he came in for Atkins or Clark, I don't think I'd lose my mind about it.

Atkins stats don't even stack up well against Parfs this year... and I know it's not all about stats, but he has been pretty average this year.

Still... Clark has had a good run of games so If I had to pull someone out to put Hardie in... It would be Clark.

 

[Hamingja]

I feel a bit for Hardie.

I mean like everyone here… I also can find faults in his game. He certainly isn’t perfect.

But neither are guys like Mullin, Parfitt, Knevitt, MOC, Clark… heck even COS got an early season run.

Good things has happened since we changed it up and got some well performed VFL guys into the side (Mannagh, Humphries and Knevitt).

Whilst I don’t think Hardie is B23… I don’t think a bunch of guy are either and they have copped plenty of games.

Hardie has performed about as good as anyone in our VFL and has been very consistent.

This shows me he is super fit.

I think we missed a chance to give him a birth in that Tigers game.

Not sure if he will get a debut.

I don’t think he is B23… But I still feel he has been a tad stiff and feel for him.

I don't mind them gifting games to Clark and I'm in the boat of Hardie likely not going to be able to transition to AFL but he will be very stiff if he doesn't get a game for the whole season. He has done the hard yards to improve year on year in the VFL and the VFL performances across the season have deserved a look at AFL level at least.

 

[Hamingja]

I would be stunned if they promote Hardie this week. He's had much more impressive games than this when we were more desperate for midfielders and he wasn't promoted then.

I don't think they will pick him but they picked Humphries off probably his worst VFL game in 2 months.

 

[moond0g]

And this is where base stats don't tell the full story - quantity wise it looks good but what was the quality of those disposals and his impact?

To back to 2018, Tim Kelly's first season at Geelong and we're in a tight battle against the Bulldogs under the Marvel roof - the same match when Taylor had a kick after the siren to win but missed

Kelly finished with 34 disposals with about 17 of them in the last, and many were focusing on that number & raving on his last quarter. Across the match he went at 56% disposal efficiency & that dropped to around 30% in the last quarter - so while it was great he was getting his hands on the ball, he was turning over 2 out of 3 disposals & that's a more telling factor in regards to his impact


Stats in isolation don't tell the full story of a players impact - so while it's great to see Hardie get his hands on the ball, what was the quality of his involvement, because a player can have just the 15-20 disposals & a more positive impact than someone who had 30/35 disposals

Yeah ok, but when he is consistently getting 'good stats' it's harder to use the 'stats can be misleading' argument.

And in general the 'quality of disposals' vs the quantity is much more subjective and harder to measrue, particularly at VFL level. So then the argument is more along the lines of "yeah but he didn't pass the eye test. Didn't do anything that said 'pick me'". Or even better, 'yeah but if he was actually good, then the MC would have picked him already. Obviously, he isn't actually playing well'. Both of which may or may not be true, but they're basically just about the 'vibe' rather than any actually measure of quality.

 

[D BRIDGE]

I don't mind them gifting games to Clark and I'm in the boat of Hardie likely not going to be able to transition to AFL but he will be very stiff if he doesn't get a game for the whole season. He has done the hard yards to improve year on year in the VFL and the VFL performances across the season have deserved a look at AFL level at least.

I agree, I don't mind Clark getting games atm.

If Bruhn/Guthrie were fit then it might be a different story.

If Clark was due for a week off/rest... I wouldn't be shattered to see Hardie get a game.

Even if it's just one game.

I think others have played worse but been given more and just one game as a reward for effort would be ok to me.

If we lost a game Hardie played I doubt we'd be saying "if Clark played instead of Hardie we'd win".

 

[MacStradbroke]

Cant wait for the avalanche of love for Jhye Clark in a year or two. Lots of knockers at the minute that will forget current commentary. My fav clearly is still he will never make it because he has a loopy kick… wow.

 

[STPer18]

Cant wait for the avalanche of love for Jhye Clark in a year or two. Lots of knockers at the minute that will forget current commentary. My fav clearly is still he will never make it because he has a loopy kick… wow.

If anything he's guilty of trying to punch his kicks too hard and low, but it's great to see him backing his skills in already. Half his first season was written off with that foot injury too - he's going very nicely.

 

[moond0g]

IF Hardie was to earn a promotion to the seniors - what role would he be playing, because he does seem to be primarily playing as that in the guts midfielder at VFL level?

And if that promotion comes this week, which of the 4 midfielders who were preferred to be in at the centre bounces on the weekend would he be replacing?

It's easy to suggest Clark, but he primarily played on the wing in the role Knevitt would have played

So Hardie may have got his hands on the ball a fair bit yesterday, but maybe it's come at a time when we don't necessarily have an opening for that role in the seniors, especially as we seem to have really cut back on rotation in the guts


View attachment 2042439

That's only 1 game though. Clark has had >40% CBAs in all bar 2 full game he's played (round 1 & 11).

e.g., last week he had 18 CBAs. So he's primarily played that position this year. They're clearly prioritising games for Clark as they seem him as the future. But he seems the obvious one that could have made way for Hardie to be tried at some point over the past couple of months if they wanted to go that way.

 

[catters_28]

The same people bashing Parfitt used to bash Varcoe, and will soon turn on Humphrey. It’s not rocket science.

No actually we used to bash Jordan Murdoch

 

[Art Vandelay_]

No actually we used to bash Jordan Murdoch

How a player at 190cm could be so crap as him above his head still astounds me.

 

[AnUltimateRessie]

No actually we used to bash Jordan Murdoch

Looking back at the days when Jordan Murdoch was getting a game nearly every week makes me proud of what our list grew to for the '22 flag.

 

[BORIS332]

Barring a catastrophic run with injuries COS is 1-2 years away. At times he is found out for not being physically strong enough for VFL. He would get monstered at AFL level. Also needs to develop a tank. He is not helped by his running style, which makes him always look tired.

He ran the 2km time trial in 6m 11s. I think his tank is probably fine.

 

[The Casey Cat]

How a player at 190cm could be so crap as him above his head still astounds me.

Without any shadow of a doubt the dumbest and most awkward looking footballer of all time to play the amount of games he did.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

That's only 1 game though. Clark has had >40% CBAs in all bar 2 full game he's played (round 1 & 11).

e.g., last week he had 18 CBAs. So he's primarily played that position this year. They're clearly prioritising games for Clark as they seem him as the future. But he seems the obvious one that could have made way for Hardie to be tried at some point over the past couple of months if they wanted to go that way.

Good summary , and this utter bullshiit peddled by some posters , that if Hardie was promoted to the seniors or for that matter a couple of the other players in the 2nds who are performing well and they just happen to be picked in the seniors at the expense of Clark , then those same posters are bagging Clark , that is utter nonsense

Its all about the now , and that is Geelong trying to win this years premiership , and in my opinion Clark is not ready for that , in 2 years time he might be the next Haydn Bunton , i hope he is

But i wouldnt mind one of the other 2nds players being given an opportunity in the seniors

 

[bulletproof]

I think it is worth pointing out in the one VFL game Clark has played recently, it was after he had already played that weekend in the seniors and he played very well.

I think he is just as capable as Hardie at dominating that competition if he played there every week.