Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[Freomaniac]

Hawks in Tassie, geelong in geelong, saints in adelaide, carlton Essendon bulldogs at marvel. Suggestions?

Can't have Essendon or Carlton at the MCG?

 

[Cleric]

Dogs want a big commercial game at the G for $$.

They know if against Collingwood, will get 70k plus and bring in $$ for them.

Why would they want to play Port at the G and have it half empty?

The sooner people realise that majority of decisions are $$ driven the better.

The AFL wants to be strong in QLD and NSW. Is anybody surprised that Sydney have played in the most GFs of any teams, and rarely miss finals. Brisbane have also played in 6 GFs winning four.

Yet the complaint is that VicBias is giving some advantage to North, StK and Carlton

The issue is exactly how you framed it.
The AFL wants success in the Northern states for revenue and reach reasons, and it also wants to keep the Vic clubs happy. They take SA and WA for granted.

 

[Cleric]

The VFL and its clubs were broke and about to be closed down by the regulator.

Saving football: New documents reveal how close the VFL came to shutting down

In 1986, the Victorian Football League came perilously close to being shut down. Thirty years on, never before seen documents reveal how close the end nearly came.

www.theage.com.au

And the licence fees from WA, Qld and SA saved them.

 

[peetoo]

We can assume footy would not have died in Victoria.

 

[peetoo]

Can't have Essendon or Carlton at the MCG?

They have split agreement with MCG and Marvel, as GWS have at Showgrounds and Canberra can visiting teams request where they play?

 

[doppleganger]

The issue is exactly how you framed it.
The AFL wants success in the Northern states for revenue and reach reasons,

Yep, no surprise Sydney always are in finals and have played the most GFs of the 21st century and Brisbane have 4 flags and 6 GFs.

GWS also regular finals contender, AFL would love nothing more to also have GC make finals.

and it also wants to keep the Vic clubs happy. They take SA and WA for granted.

Revenue and reach means the fixture is aligned to the Melbourne market and BLOCKBUSTERS, which benefits the larger Melbourne clubs.

The smaller Melbourne clubs are left requesting games against teams like Collingwood so they can make $ - Melbourne probably lost money from its home game at the G against the Giants, but would make a shitload playing Collingwood on Kings Bday

And from on-field advantage perspective, it is the small Melbourne / Docklands tenants who are the runts of the entire AFL litter.

The problem is the SA fans are still in old "kick-a-vic" State mode.

The reality is Adelaide and Port get more home games at AO than all Melbourne teams get at their home ground (except Collingwood).

Many Melbourne based teams also travel just as far as the SA teams.

The go home factor benefits SA clubs the most (over-representation of talent split between just two teams).

The only real gripe is you can't walk to the GF like you used to in SANFL days...and you don't get as many Friday night games.

 

[Nepotism]

its swings and roundabouts.

 

[Freomaniac]

They have split agreement with MCG and Marvel, as GWS have at Showgrounds and Canberra can visiting teams request where they play?

Just like North Melbourne, Bulldogs and saints were "persuaded" to play home games at Docklands. LoL

 

[sr36]

And the licence fees from WA, Qld and SA saved them.

It's an interesting gloat, as the flipside is the Crows and WCE only exist because of it.

 

[Cleric]

It's an interesting gloat, as the flipside is the Crows and WCE only exist because of it.

Thr SANFL had no intention of putting a team in until a proper national organisation was set up outside of the VFL. The AFL was desperate for more money and so convinced Port to betray the SANFL to force their hand.

 

[Cleric]

Yep, no surprise Sydney always are in finals and have played the most GFs of the 21st century and Brisbane have 4 flags and 6 GFs.

GWS also regular finals contender, AFL would love nothing more to also have GC make finals.

Revenue and reach means the fixture is aligned to the Melbourne market and BLOCKBUSTERS, which benefits the larger Melbourne clubs.

The smaller Melbourne clubs are left requesting games against teams like Collingwood so they can make $ - Melbourne probably lost money from its home game at the G against the Giants, but would make a shitload playing Collingwood on Kings Bday

And from on-field advantage perspective, it is the small Melbourne / Docklands tenants who are the runts of the entire AFL litter.

The problem is the SA fans are still in old "kick-a-vic" State mode.

The reality is Adelaide and Port get more home games at AO than all Melbourne teams get at their home ground (except Collingwood).

Many Melbourne based teams also travel just as far as the SA teams.

The go home factor benefits SA clubs the most (over-representation of talent split between just two teams).

The only real gripe is you can't walk to the GF like you used to in SANFL days...and you don't get as many Friday night games.

The last game of the year is the most important. I dont know anyone who would believe that Richmond would have beaten the Crows in the GF if it was held at the AO. That's how big an advantage it is.

 

[sr36]

The last game of the year is the most important. I dont know anyone who would believe that Richmond would have beaten the Crows in the GF if it was held at the AO. That's how big an advantage it is.

You might be living in a Crows' bubble.

It all clicked for Tiges in the back end of that year - they were playing a brand of footy that was ahead of its time. THey flogged everyone in the finals - it wasn't even close that GF. Should have won 4 in a row really - not sure what happened against Pies in 2018, but they were comfortably the best team that year too.

 

[Underarm]

The last game of the year is the most important. I dont know anyone who would believe that Richmond would have beaten the Crows in the GF if it was held at the AO. That's how big an advantage it is.

Home ground advantage is not a 60 point advantage.

 

[doppleganger]

The last game of the year is the most important.

Sure is.
But actually making it is important.

SA teams have no problems consistently making top4 in H&A (as they aren't actually disadvantaged).

This gives them the easy path to a GF, but they just lose home finals, as they aren't that good.

I dont know anyone who would believe that Richmond would have beaten the Crows in the GF if it was held at the AO. That's how big an advantage it is.

That Richmond team was hitting their stride. They went on and won finals outside of Vic in the following years.

Richmond was a mentally strong team lead by a generational star who dominated big finals Dusty.

The Adelaide side was mentally weak, crumbled under the pressure, lost the game before the first bounce and wouldn't have won anywhere.

But yes, continue to blame the ground for Adelaide not showing up and being belted by 10 goals.

 

[VicBased]

Agree.

I hate Collingwood as much as any other club but, for example if it is a Collingwood vs Port Grand Final, I'm hoping Collingwood win.

You are still going to get the happy clappers who will barrack for the other SA club if they are in finals and their club isn't but I think that attitude has waned greatly over the years.

It is a club based competition & I don't want our closet rival (PA) winning anything or having any success whatsoever.

And I would expect the same attitude exists from Port supporters to us.

It is an individual thing though. Being a WC supporter and Freo make the GF, I am barracking for the west aussie team.
Why you say, because it would be good for WA.
Puts us on the map a little more and brings good players to think " maybe it won't be too bad " to play for a West aussie team.
I also support a third team in WA.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Pies normally only 4-5 home games with an actual advantage against a non-vic team.

Pies normally get 4 "home" and 5 "away" games at the G against other Vic teams. These are the neutral showdowns. The Pies playing Melbourne, Carlton or Richmond at the G isn't an advantage to either side.

SA teams have two neutral games against the other SA team. But then 11 games with an advantage against a travelling opponent.

Getting 11 games with a genuine home ground advantage is a huge advantage. They don't play 11 away games at opponents preferred home ground.

WA sides now in same boat thanks to the North deal.

no, but non-vic teams play 10 away games with genuine home ground disadvantage, far less than collingwood.

Adelaide rarely play away games that aren't at the home teams preferred ground. All of the away games against vic sides that take place away from the 2 big melbourne grounds are because the vic club chose the smaller venue.

Most of Adelaide away games against collingwood are played at the mcg, but even the few games played at Marvel still give collingwood a home ground advantage.

 

[VicBased]

no, but non-vic teams play 10 away games with genuine home ground disadvantage, far less than collingwood.

Adelaide rarely play away games that aren't at the home teams preferred ground. All of the away games against vic sides that take place away from the 2 big melbourne grounds are because the vic club chose the smaller venue.

Most of Adelaide away games against collingwood are played at the mcg, but even the few games played at Marvel still give collingwood a home ground advantage.

I agree with your logic and "good try" but your pissing in the wind with the Vic supporters, especially Collingwood ones.
They know how to spin bullshit better than most.

 

[doppleganger]

no, but non-vic teams play 10 away games with genuine home ground disadvantage, far less than collingwood.

False.
Adelaide will often play "Melbourne" based teams in Tasmania or the Northern Territory.

In 2017, Adelaide played away against Melbourne in NT and away to North in Tasmania.

When both teams travel, sleep in hotels and are playing away...how can Adelaide experience a genuine away disadvantage?

Melbourne were a solid team in 2017, if they actually got to play Adelaide at the G they probably win...and then Adelaide finish 4th and don't embarrass themselves on GF day.

Adelaide rarely play away games that aren't at the home teams preferred ground.

Yes they do, and it is usually 2-3 times each year.

In 2025 they play Hawks, Dogs and Essendon at grounds that aren't the preferred home ground of the Melbourne team.

But the SA sooks, can't grasp how playing a team at an alternate ground (not their preferred home ground) is actually a benefit to Adelaide. As they don't have to experience the genuine home ground disadvantage.

All of the away games against vic sides that take place away from the 2 big melbourne grounds are because the vic club chose the smaller venue.

There comes the stock standard - the disadvantage doesn't exist if you choose it line.

Yeah Melbourne players don't experience any travel disadvantage when travelling to NT. Hawk players don't actually get on the plane when playing in Tassie.

Most of Adelaide away games against collingwood are played at the mcg, but even the few games played at Marvel still give collingwood a home ground advantage.

Yeah, according to the VICBias sooks the ground ain't important.

Collingwood playing at Marvel is a home ground advantage.
Melbourne playing in Alice Springs is a home ground advantage.
StKilda playing in China is a home ground advantage.
Hawks playing in Tassie is a home ground advantage.
North playing in Perth is a home ground advantage to North.

As you need that logic to ensure you can pretend that every game Adelaide play away from Adelaide Oval is a "genuine home ground disadvantage" game.

 

[Carringbush2010]

So you’re pretty much just admitting that the non Vic clubs are there to make up the numbers and you’ll have your cake and eat it as well.

I'm stating it's an expanded vfl, make of that what you will.

I'd argue the small vic clubs get the worst of it, for reasons already explained. Big vic clubs the most beneficial.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Of course it’s a huge market, just stop playing the GF at the MCG.

HQ aren't gonna do that, for reasons already explained.

 

[Carringbush2010]

If we as the best how come we beat you in soo?


You just borrowed money you couldn’t afford and tried to buy premierships.

Before the vfl started with the Ponzi scheme we didn’t lose stuff all players to the vfl…. For decades the state leagues were great comps…… it’s when your lot started throwing money around like drunken sailors it all went to shit.

Then direct your anger at those clubs then........ and the players that agreed to it and left. In futility.

Accept what we've got or don't. Your call.

 

[Cleric]

Home ground advantage is not a 60 point advantage.

It actually can be. What was the score when the two teams met earlier that year?
The Crows were the best home and away team, won both finals at home, and had to play at Richmond's home ground in the GF. The Crowd was 70% Richmond supporters.
That played a massive role in the outcome of the game.

 

[kranky al]

Then direct your anger at those clubs then........ and the players that agreed to it and left. In futility.

Accept what we've got or don't. Your call.

Well clearly I dont.

 

[JackOutback]

Home ground advantage is not a 60 point advantage.

West Coast smacked Richmond at home in 2018, yet Tigers fans are convinced they would have won the grand final if they had got past Collingwood. Wonder why that is.

 

[Cleric]

Sure is.
But actually making it is important.

SA teams have no problems consistently making top4 in H&A (as they aren't actually disadvantaged).

This gives them the easy path to a GF, but they just lose home finals, as they aren't that good.

That Richmond team was hitting their stride. They went on and won finals outside of Vic in the following years.

Richmond was a mentally strong team lead by a generational star who dominated big finals Dusty.

The Adelaide side was mentally weak, crumbled under the pressure, lost the game before the first bounce and wouldn't have won anywhere.

But yes, continue to blame the ground for Adelaide not showing up and being belted by 10 goals.

To deny a home ground advantage is ridiculous.
The score in R6 that year when the Crows played Richmond was a 76 point win.