Voss on Fev/Brown - Yikes!

[Bluebear]

I have watched more Brisbane games than you have

That may be so, but I have watched every game Henderson has played.....watching Henderson rather than the game. I know what this guy can and can't do.....

He played more games as a forward.

Sure about that.

and a few reserves games so a few flashes of the talent he has is potential.........doesnt make him an excellent player. At this stage at best he is a solid player but no star or 50 goals per year like a lot of Carlton fans are saying he will be.

Who said excellent or a star?
Wow, the arguement seems to have changed from a mistake as a first rounder petty quick.

Compare him to other second year KPP's and I think you'll see that your responses are being driven by disappointment rather than anything to do with Henderson as a player.

To help you out, the other KPP's taken before him that year were Jarryd Grant and Mitch Thorpe.

I know who I'd have right now.

 

[parrot]

Against the Bulldogs yes , the only team that the match ups are awful on and....

You lost against the Bulldogs because of your slow midfield and weak defense. You need a good midfield to beat the Bulldogs. Blues always beat them. Unless Fev can play midfield and defense, not much has changed. You've sold your future, without addressing the major weaknesses on your list. That's why you're at huge risk of doing a Freo. I suspect you know that. The Brisbane Retreads will be under huge pressure over the next 1-2 years. Massive. Oh and on the round 2 game - beating a full strength Carlton team on our home turf might mean a little more. the 2nd game will be more insightful.

 

[Hollow Knight]

To help you out, the other KPP's taken before him that year were Jarryd Grant and Mitch Thorpe.

Thorpe was the year before IIRC.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

this has developed into an excellent thread.

but this shouldn't be about comparing carlton and brisbane. i think i heard voss rationalising his list development after conceding brisbane were not capable of competing with the two grand final teams.

aside from fevola, how has the list improved?

 

[Bluebear]

Thorpe was the year before IIRC.

Quite right.

Why let the truth ruin a good story.

 

[TOPBLUE_25]

As a Carlton supporter Im happy getting Henderson and Lucas for Fev. Is Henderson going to be as good as Fev, I doubt it but we should get as much out of him while he is here as we would have from Fevs last years.

Lucas will provide a bit of run and carry to our midfield which is shaping as one of the best.

Should the Lions be happy, yes. they will get Fev for 4 or five years (maybe more) and Bartlett might turn out to be ok.

 

[Gibbo_88]

That may be so, but I have watched every game Henderson has played.....watching Henderson rather than the game. I know what this guy can and can't do.....

Who said excellent or a star?
Wow, the arguement seems to have changed from a mistake as a first rounder petty quick.

Compare him to other second year KPP's and I think you'll see that your responses are being driven by disappointment rather than anything to do with Henderson as a player.

To help you out, the other KPP's taken before him that year were Jarryd Grant and Mitch Thorpe.

I know who I'd have right now.

You may have watched every game but as you know seeing a player live vs TV shows a different story

I could go through and find a bunch of ppl on here that have basically said he will be a star but that would be painful and you said he played excellent against Hawthorn when that game really is no representation of the talent he has.

It's obvious he still needs more development maybe through playing games consistently and not in and out of the side but this is his fourth year now. At the start of 09 I think he was talked about locking down the CHB position and his improvement was really disappointing.

 

[Gibbo_88]

You lost against the Bulldogs because of your slow midfield and weak defense. You need a good midfield to beat the Bulldogs. Blues always beat them. Unless Fev can play midfield and defense, not much has changed. You've sold your future, without addressing the major weaknesses on your list. That's why you're at huge risk of doing a Freo. I suspect you know that. The Brisbane Retreads will be under huge pressure over the next 1-2 years. Massive. Oh and on the round 2 game - beating a full strength Carlton team on our home turf might mean a little more. the 2nd game will be more insightful.

The more you talk about this 'weak defense' the more you prove that you have absolutely no idea. The defense is the only area I am not worried about. Merrett and Patfull rarely get beaten and they take the 2 best forwards every week but there really is no point in explaining this to someone who thinks that our defense needs fixing.

If you have both of your taggers out injured, you're already at a disadvantage before the game has even started and our midfield definitely needs improvement but hey....it beats your 'star studded midfield'

Once again you obviously have no idea about the players that we have recently drafted and if you did you wouldn't think we have sold our soul. One KPP and a midfielder does not equal selling your future.

 

[Bluebear]

You may have watched every game but as you know seeing a player live vs TV shows a different story

So please enlighten me. What did I miss on the tapes that you saw live?

I could go through and find a bunch of ppl on here that have basically said he will be a star but that would be painful and you said he played excellent against Hawthorn when that game really is no representation of the talent he has.

No.......but the game vs Cats last year when he played back-up ruck was. Here he was giving away cm's and experience to Blake and Mumford, yet managed to win some hitouts......but more impressivley for a KPP in his 10th or so game, his body positioning was first rate.

Did you see that game at Geelong live? Did I miss something on the tapes?
HIs game at Geelong the year before (his second game I beleive) he was pretty quiet as Bradshaw and Brown were the main targets, yet he still was the dominant CHF for the Lions in the second Q, when they made him the key target.

I guess that wasn't representative either.

There would be the game vs Kangaroos last year where Hale, coming off 5 goals as a key forward vs Cats the week before was DOMINATED by young Henderson......but again I didn't see it live......did you? It was at the MCG.

The FACT is that in the 17 or so senior games that he has played he only got beaten 2-3 times. Late last year Westhoff got the better of him, as did Jesse White in round 22 (but as we both know Henderson had missed weeks with a foot stress reaction and was most likely underdone for the Swans game)

It's obvious he still needs more development maybe through playing games consistently and not in and out of the side but this is his fourth year now.

Fail.
Drafted 2007. Debuted 2008, second year 2009........fourth year 2010?

At the start of 09 I think he was talked about locking down the CHB position and his improvement was really disappointing.

Amazing that a guy drafted as a CHF didn't "cement" CHB after half a dozen games......having NEVER played their before.

WHAT A SPUD.

Care to embarrass yourself by posting again?

 

[Gibbo_88]

I can remember a few times being worried about who he was playing on because he couldn't keep up at full pace.

I was actually overseas and couldn't get to the Geelong game.

You talk about him like he is a prodigy. He is certainly no spud. I went to 8 games at the Gabba last year and saw a few reserves matches...I never left a game thinking we have a real talent here unlike how wrapped I was with Rich, Redden and Polkinghorne for 2009. The way you talk about him it sounds like he was our replacement for Leppa or Bradshaw but I never thought that at any point nor thought he dominanted anyone.

 

[TOPBLUE_25]

I can remember a few times being worried about who he was playing on because he couldn't keep up at full pace.

I was actually overseas and couldn't get to the Geelong game.

You talk about him like he is a prodigy. He is certainly no spud. I went to 8 games at the Gabba last year and saw a few reserves matches...I never left a game thinking we have a real talent here unlike how wrapped I was with Rich, Redden and Polkinghorne for 2009. The way you talk about him it sounds like he was our replacement for Leppa or Bradshaw but I never thought that at any point nor thought he dominanted anyone.

Both have done about as much as Mitch Robinson with less midfield competition so not that amazing.

Hendersons stats stand up against most of the quality KP players at the same age.

 

[NQlionnut]

Hooper played 9 games including both finals.

Haha you would be lucky to find a single lion fan who wasnt glad to see the lazy spud go. Years of continuous dissapointment. Almost died laughing when i read about hooper saying that Cyril could go chasing for a change.
Also Macdonald didnt play finals therefore not in our best 22.

 

[Bluebear]

I can remember a few times being worried about who he was playing on because he couldn't keep up at full pace.

I was actually overseas and couldn't get to the Geelong game.

and yet you threw this so confidently at me:

I have watched more Brisbane games than you have and a few reserves games

Make one wonder what else you have been talking out your butt about.

The way you talk about him it sounds like he was our replacement for Leppa or Bradshaw .

Really? Are you confusing me with other posters? Maybe its the way you think you hear us talk about him, but you might like to quote where I have overstated his abilities.

but I never thought that at any point nor thought he dominanted anyone

and that's the difference between "going to the footy" and studying the vision of one particular player.

If you look up the review thread I did on his games you'll see that I'm impressed with him but far from calling him a star.
He has some great positives:
- reads the game well
- quick decisions
- accurate disposal
- good hands
- above average body work for his age. Has shown the ability to protect space and the drop of the footy (not unlike Brown/Bradhsaw) and also to hold position in ruck/marking contests against bigger/stronger/more experienced opponents.

Needs work:
- over head marking and pack marking. Possibly comes from not being the main target leading up, and playng as a defender where he first inclination was to spoil most of the time.
- kicking at goal from >45m (though field kicking pretty good and limited shots at senior level to comment on)
- attack on packs. Tends to loiter outside a pack looking for forst hands rather than run into it. Yet his attack on the ball in one on ones is first rate and uses his body well.

Inconsistent
- Pace. Has run down Milne and kept pace with S Burgoyne at full tilt, yet Jesse White and Westhoff lead him to the ball late last year (which led me to query when his foot pbecam an issue)


So let me know how this differs from the limited live viewing you've had.

 

[Silvagnis]

I can remember a few times being worried about who he was playing on because he couldn't keep up at full pace.

I was actually overseas and couldn't get to the Geelong game.

You talk about him like he is a prodigy. He is certainly no spud. I went to 8 games at the Gabba last year and saw a few reserves matches...I never left a game thinking we have a real talent here unlike how wrapped I was with Rich, Redden and Polkinghorne for 2009. The way you talk about him it sounds like he was our replacement for Leppa or Bradshaw but I never thought that at any point nor thought he dominanted anyone.

Don't pretend you bent us over in the trade.

Josh Kennedy didn't dominate either in his two years at Carlton.

JK hardly looked a world beater, but stepped up this year and performed with an undermanned midfield.

Injuries, poor form (he's a KPP and they can take longer to click) and a clueless coach in Pagan meant we didn't get the best out of Kennedy.

Mids such as Redden and Polkinghorne can step into senior footy and acclimatise to senior footy faster than talls.

I doubt that Tayte Pears would have cracked it for a game at full back if he was a Brisbane, Collingwood, Bulldogs or Geelong player.

You had Patfull, Merrett, Brown and Bradshaw ahead of him in the pecking order.

Plus Clark before he had to ruck.

That was one of the reasons Henderson gave for wanting to joing Carlton.

He didn't want to leave, but you gave him the chance to come home.

Henderson was rated as a harder player than the name talls in this draft.

 

[Bluebear]

Also Macdonald didnt play finals therefore not in our best 22.

Are you trying to "out-dumb" Tigers fans?

He played all 22 games and missed through injury.

Yeah, he was just minding a spot for 22 weeks.

Looking forward to school going back?

 

[Cousin Jed]

Are you trying to "out-dumb" Tigers fans?

He played all 22 games and missed through injury.

The injury was made up. He was dropped.

 

[TOPBLUE_25]

The injury was made up. He was dropped.

hmmm.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The injury was made up. He was dropped.

Yup. Voss made that pretty clear when he was asked in the press conference about what JMac's injury was.

"Ask me on monday *wink*".

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

What about you TBD? You were one of the ones mourning when Henderson decided to leave - What did you see in him?
Was it you that gave the quote comparing him to Bradshaw?

 

[Weiterbot23]

Hopefully Hendo can own some of the Fullbacks as much as Blue Bear did Gibbo

 

[Hollow Knight]

What about you TBD? You were one of the ones mourning when Henderson decided to leave - What did you see in him?

Huge Hendo fan, still am. Far too good a bloke to be playing for Carlton. I was also a huge Austin Lucy fan too. Take from that as you will.

Was it you that gave the quote comparing him to Bradshaw?

In the context that he has genuine swingman ability up forward and back, yes. Whether he will be as good as Bradshaw is another thing entirely.

 

[BlueTongue]

Yup. Voss made that pretty clear when he was asked in the press conference about what JMac's injury was.

"Ask me on monday *wink*".

If this is true then Voss is a prick for saying that to the media. Fancy selling-out one of your own and having a laugh at his expense. No wonder MacDonald wanted to leave, must have been some bad blood there. I mean, what is it with Voss, he seems to have crapped on a couple of the younger players (Rischitelli, MacDonald) who are/were a couple of your better players.

I am fast losing respect for Voss.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Hopefully Hendo can own some of the Fullbacks as much as Blue Bear did Gibbo

Mmm yep I feel really owned that someone has a different opinion than me.
Just means that bluebear see's a hell of a lot more in Hendo than I ever did

 

[Malifice]

I can remember a few times being worried about who he was playing on because he couldn't keep up at full pace.

He's a key forward. They're generally not recruited for pace.

Size, long range kicking accuracy, marking, body positioning and reading of the play all take precedence.

Not that im conceeding he is slow btw.

You talk about him like he is a prodigy. He is certainly no spud. I went to 8 games at the Gabba last year and saw a few reserves matches...I never left a game thinking we have a real talent here unlike how wrapped I was with Rich, Redden and Polkinghorne for 2009.

The above players were widely considered 'ready made' for AFL footy.

KPP generally take time to develop. (i.e. put on size in most cases).

The way you talk about him it sounds like he was our replacement for Leppa or Bradshaw but I never thought that at any point nor thought he dominanted anyone.

Umm... thats why he was drafted. As a future replacement KPF for Brown/ Bradshaw. Matthews was quoted as saying as much shortly after you guys picked him up.

 

[chopperduck]

difference is Lethal is now gone. Voss (to his credit) is following his own plan, not one that lethal left behind. Hence the change up on the list. Hendo has great body positioning, and will be a threat standing in the goal square with the ball coming in more so than on the lead. However, it will still take a bit of time for him to be able to get big enough to do this to the top defenders of the competition.