Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 3

[Mobbs]

It has never been determined it actually was the wrong target. And they didn't miss.

Unsure what you mean. All we were doing in both quoted texts we were just stating possibilities, not assertions. Assuming it was air defence aimed at the aircraft, then yes it didn't miss. But it could have. An explosive device on the plane almost can't miss (but of course there are other risks there such as early discovery).

Another thing I read was that there were two explosions, which is also notable, but I hadn't looked any further into that.

 

[Zidane98]

 

[QuietB]

Unsure what you mean. All we were doing in both quoted texts we were just stating possibilities, not assertions. Assuming it was air defence aimed at the aircraft, then yes it didn't miss. But it could have. An explosive device on the plane almost can't miss (but of course there are other risks there such as early discovery).

Another thing I read was that there were two explosions, which is also notable, but I hadn't looked any further into that.

Russian missiles are good. A US Airforce plane with all their defence capability might be able to avoid the odd one. There is zero chance a civilian jet even knew it was coming.

My comment "It has never been determined it actually was the wrong target" implies that I don't think the Russians care what they blow out of the sky. My 14yo son can look at a simple app and determine what pretty much any plane in the world is.

 

[EagleMan87]

I actually think he’s been spending the last 2 months trying to ensure that if they get rid of Prigozhin they could then essentially nationalise Wagner and their African operations, both military and resource plundering based. The juntas that use Wagner are super keen to keep them there. It’s a bold punt though, a lot to hold together.

Wouldn't nationalizing them basically be an act of war?

 

[Cap]

This is getting real

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Wouldn't nationalizing them basically be an act of war?

Yeah, should’ve specified that it wouldn’t be a formal nationalisation, as in it wouldn’t become an official wing of the military for the reasons you mentioned but the strings would all be being pulled by the MOD and the money will find its way into their coffers. A staggering amount of money has hit Prigozhin’s accounts over the last 5-6 years, they’re after that profit now.

 

[Mobbs]

Russian missiles are good. A US Airforce plane with all their defence capability might be able to avoid the odd one. There is zero chance a civilian jet even knew it was coming.

My comment "It has never been determined it actually was the wrong target" implies that I don't think the Russians care what they blow out of the sky. My 14yo son can look at a simple app and determine what pretty much any plane in the world is.

Yes agreed, probably just having trouble understanding your wording. I definitely don't think it was an accident. Was just talking about the reasons for using air defence to do it, as opposed to a bomb on the plane, novichok, etc. Seems vaguely overkill - which then leads me to consider it was necessary to show the Russian people that this happened. All surmisings.

 

[Mobbs]

This is getting real

They dropped in, had a small sortie, and left again. (lost my links sorry, will edit them in if I find them again). ERdit: found [link (Kherson news)]
There's additionally a report someone may have fired on a civilian beach as well! (no casualties). [link (Baza)] [link (Baza)]

 

[jatz14]

Unsure what you mean. All we were doing in both quoted texts we were just stating possibilities, not assertions. Assuming it was air defence aimed at the aircraft, then yes it didn't miss. But it could have. An explosive device on the plane almost can't miss (but of course there are other risks there such as early discovery).

Another thing I read was that there were two explosions, which is also notable, but I hadn't looked any further into that.

It's a civilian aircraft, shot at by a Russian air defence system.

There is almost no way it misses, and if it's deliberate, an S400 has lots of missiles.

So, I would go the other way. A bomb can be found if the plane is searched, and given who is on it, it was certainly searched.

But if your flying a commercial plane through Russian airspace, and they want to shoot down your plane, your dead.

Anyway, it seems the spin coming from Russia is, there was a Ukraine drone attack on Moscow, the plane went dark, Russian air defences got confused, tragic accident follows.

So, it seems it was shot down, the only question is, was it an accidental accident, or a non accidental accident.



On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mobbs]

Says "in Kherson ... launched on left bank" which either means across the river on the mudflats or Oleshkiy bridgehead, or perhaps just they caught the breeze heading across the river. [link (Kherson news)]
View attachment video_2023-08-24_14-55-12(compressed).mp4

 

[Mobbs]

It's a civilian aircraft, shot at by a Russian air defence system.

There is almost no way it misses, and if it's deliberate, an S400 has lots of missiles.

So, I would go the other way. A bomb can be found if the plane is searched, and given who is on it, it was certainly searched.

But if your flying a commercial plane through Russian airspace, and they want to shoot down your plane, your dead.

Anyway, it seems the spin coming from Russia is, there was a Ukraine drone attack on Moscow, the plane went dark, Russian air defences got confused, tragic accident follows.

So, it seems it was shot down, the only question is, was it an accidental accident, or a non accidental accident.



On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yep agreed, and that I guess is why names like Shoigu is popping up. Someone's got to have access to that system, ruling out pretty much everyone except the RF.

 

[Mobbs]

It's hard, because they are both Russian sources, so I can't tell which one is the fakest.

The Telegram channel of the VChK-OPGU, administered by people connected with the security forces, claims that the bodies of Prigozhin and Utkin were allegedly identified by the PMC command. Earlier, Fontanka wrote that the bodies of all the victims could not be identified visually.

At the same time, the Kepka Prigozhin channel, which previously published press releases and official statements by the head of Wagner, reposts reports that statements on behalf of commanders (about identifying bodies) are fake. At night, the same channel urged "not to publish unverified data and messages regarding the advice of the Wagner PMC commanders and the fate of Yevgeny Prigozhin." It did not publish any official statements by Prigozhin's press service.

[ SOTA]

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

It's a civilian aircraft, shot at by a Russian air defence system.

There is almost no way it misses, and if it's deliberate, an S400 has lots of missiles.

So, I would go the other way. A bomb can be found if the plane is searched, and given who is on it, it was certainly searched.

But if your flying a commercial plane through Russian airspace, and they want to shoot down your plane, your dead.

Anyway, it seems the spin coming from Russia is, there was a Ukraine drone attack on Moscow, the plane went dark, Russian air defences got confused, tragic accident follows.

So, it seems it was shot down, the only question is, was it an accidental accident, or a non accidental accident.



On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

The plane didn't crash. Had a special military landing.

 

[Mobbs]

In Chelyabinsk, migrants who have recently gained citizenship were conscripted.

In Chelyabinsk, the security forces took three men who had recently received Russian citizenship to the military registration and enlistment office. In total, seven people received summons. Similar anti-migrant raids have already taken place in Chuvashia, the Belgorod region and St. Petersburg.

DOXA Journal:

В Челябинске силовики увезли в военкомат троих мужчин, которые недавно получили российское гражданство

В Челябинске полиция и сотрудни_цы военкоматов провели антимигрантский рейд на Китайском рынке против мужчин, которые недавно получили российское г...

doxa.team

Includes this suggestion:
On August 16, the head of the Presidential Human Rights Council, Valery Fadeev, proposed that foreigners be automatically registered with the military upon receipt of a Russian passport

 

[Smeg Head]

An internal bomb would split up more of the main body of the aircraft I would think compared to an external missile explosion.

 

[Mobbs]

There are now statements suggesting it was a bomb (but its a RF source so ... yeah ... ) :

The main version of the plane crash of Yevgeny Prigozhin's plane is a bomb explosion in the service compartment near the bathroom. Investigators do not rule out that there could have been two IEDs on board the Embraer.

According to Baza's sources, the version about the use of air defense is not a priority. According to experts, there is too little shrapnel damage on the parts of the crashed Embraer. In addition, during the fall of the aircraft, no contrails of the rocket were visible in the sky.

So far, everything indicates that the explosion occurred in the service compartment (pictured is a similar compartment on another business jet) in the area of \u200b\u200bthe tail section of the aircraft, which fell a few kilometers from the fuselage. From the compartment, which is also a cargo compartment, there is access to a toilet located at the tail. The keel of the Embraer remained practically intact. According to investigators, the bomb was unlikely to have been installed in the landing gear compartment: fuel tanks are located nearby and if the IED was detonated in this place, the plane would have been on fire already during the fall. Perhaps two explosive devices were planted on board - in case one bomb did not work.

The investigation began with working out the maintenance phase of the aircraft at Sheremetyevo before flying to St. Petersburg. Law enforcement officers establish a list of persons who had access to the board, look at the cameras at the airport and interview technicians.

According to sources, investigators were especially interested in whether there were new employees who had just recently joined the workforce.

[link (Baza)]

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

And Denys Davydov passes on reports of a suspect (again, he's passing on reports from the RF, so veracity is in the air (unlike the plane)) :
The first suspect appeared in the case of the plane crash in the Tver region.

It was Wagner personal pilot Artyom Stepanov, according to the TG channel VChK-OGPU associated with law enforcement agencies. Stepanov is the former founder of the MNT Aero company, which owns the crashed jet. He is under US sanctions for being associated with Prigozhin. According to the source, Stepanov had access to the plane, and before the explosion he left for Kamchatka, where he has not been in contact for the third day.

According to the pro-Kremlin TV channel Shot, the main version of the investigation is a terrorist attack. The explosive device was allegedly planted in the landing gear of the plane.
[link (Denys Davydov)]

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Zelenskiy makes a statement about Prigozhin: "Ukraine has nothing to do with the death in Russia of the leader of the PVK Wagner Yevgeny Prigozhin," — Zelensky [link (Trukha Ukraina)]

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Won't be long now until Putin tries to pin the incident on terrorists linked to Ukraine

Plan A go to

 

[kalex6251]

the plane obviously fell out of a hospital window ... mystery solved

 

[Ballarat Bob]

Blaming it on Ukraine would make Putin weaker , there are drone attacks most nights in Moscow he can't stop let alone Ukraine supposedly being able to bomb a civilian aircraft flying out of Moscow. Don't think stirring up Wagner operatives will make his life any easier . How the ultra nationalists will react as well will be interesting he already seems to be clamping down on mil bloggers who are not 100 percent behind the operation.
His silence seems to be quite deliberate and to let it sink in among other oligarchs , security services and any other perceived opposition that he still can be ruthless.
Prizgohin is a piece s**t who deserved to die he ran a group of mercenaries whose attrocities against civilians and prisoners of war (let alone against his own troops) was barbaric.
Hopefully this destabilizes Putin more than it helps him.

 

[Visions]

The plane didn't crash. Had a special military landing.

Just like the moon rocket the orcs sent.....

 

[mighty tiges]

"had a difficult fate" = bumped off!

 

[Mobbs]

On Trukha Ukraina tg this morning ( dunno how to share from a phone, wish I had a 14yo son to show me), there's a video of a surveillance drone getting brought down literally by throwing a stick at it. If someone reminds me I can go find it tonight when home.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tangolikelama]

On Trukha Ukraina tg this morning ( dunno how to share from a phone, wish I had a 14yo son to show me), there's a video of a surveillance drone getting brought down literally by throwing a stick at it. If someone reminds me I can go find it tonight when home.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mobbs]

Is that it? Sorry I can't read twitter or reddit etc, I just see links (it's why I try to post full content ). Thanks!

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app