Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Jamolad]

Spoiler: Tweet has banned word

It's beautiful. F16 shoots down a Russian drone

Love the Victory Roll.

 

[Zidane98]

Lavrov now say "we never wanted Ukranian territory".

Well ok than. Leave Ukraine and prove that's what you want.

 

[Zidane98]

 

[wannabejack]

Lavrov now say "we never wanted Ukranian territory".

Well ok than. Leave Ukraine and prove that's what you want.

Full video.

 

[Millky95]

Russians won't be cold this winter

 

[Millky95]

 

[Chief]

Russians won't be cold this winter

Russians will develop their own, more and more deaths...

 

[Millky95]

Russians will develop their own, more and more deaths...

Unfortunately, that is how war tends to work

 

[Visions]

Russians will develop their own, more and more deaths...

They have their glide bombs for mass destruction already.

 

[Visions]

A year or so too late. What is different now than back then to be able to give the green light all of a sudden?

And why give the heads up to Russia? Let the first they hear of it be when airfields, ammo depots and command centres are being blown sky high.

 

[wannabejack]

Russian drones are entering NATO airspace, and some members say it's their 'duty' to respond

NATO countries are becoming increasingly vocal about their capabilities to shoot down Russia drones and missiles, as Romania and Latvia become the latest members of the Western alliance to report Moscow violated their airspace.

www.abc.net.au

Professor Fruehling said it was hard to imagine all the incursions were happening "completely accidentally".

"There is a kind of suspicion, at least in some quarters, that Russia is testing NATO here and pushing the boundaries," he said.

"And to some extent, deliberately flying into NATO airspace is a way of circumventing Ukrainian air defence."

 

[Mobbs]

A year or so too late. What is different now than back then to be able to give the green light all of a sudden?

And why give the heads up to Russia? Let the first they hear of it be when airfields, ammo depots and command centres are being blown sky high.

It's almost as though they waited until the RF had a contingency in place .

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[Zidane98]

.

A year or so too late. What is different now than back then to be able to give the green light all of a sudden?

And why give the heads up to Russia? Let the first they hear of it be when airfields, ammo depots and command centres are being blown sky high.

Definitely too late.


I do see why Ukraine would want it announce publicly that they can now fire at will into Russia. The idea being Russia thinks twice about firing ballistic missiles into Ukraine knowing ATACMS / Storm Shadow etc will be coming their way in return.


I do also like the idea they find out by some of their TU-22 bombers being denazified at one of their airbases without warning though.

 

[Syd]

A year or so too late. What is different now than back then to be able to give the green light all of a sudden?

And why give the heads up to Russia? Let the first they hear of it be when airfields, ammo depots and command centres are being blown sky high.

Current Government realising that Assistance Packages may be a thing of the past if Trump gets elected come November.

Best option to give them a go ahead while it's still possible.

 

[Zidane98]

Hmmm - what could possibly be the reason why Russia are not conducting this exercise in the Black Sea this year?

 

[Andre]

A year or so too late. What is different now than back then to be able to give the green light all of a sudden?

And why give the heads up to Russia? Let the first they hear of it be when airfields, ammo depots and command centres are being blown sky high.

It's the boiling a frog / a slice of bread at a time philosophy. They (led by National Sleep with the Lights on Advisor Jake Sullivan), worry if Ukraine gets a lot of new things at once Russia will escalate to attacking NATO or using Nuke's (despite it being clear that'd only make things worse for them).

If you give a new capability every few weeks/couple of months, then each individual one is too small for Russia to justify to the world a disproportionate response (and they still need China and Russia to prop them up). It might have made sense at the start of the war, when Russia didn't look like a paper tiger, but it's a policy that's long past it's use by date.

 

[petrie pie]

Well trained, well armed, 2nd best army in the world, blah blah blah.

Yet a 3 day war against ONE so call inferior neighbour is running 2 years in, hundreds of thousands of Russian casualties and we’re currently at a situation where Russia itself has been invaded by the old men and woman you’re apparently talking about and lost territory and cant expel them. How ****ing embarrassing to do that against pensioners…..

But, hey be warned NATO and especially the United States, Russia will take you to the cleaners if you tried to engage with them by walking victoriously backwards.

It is not the 2nd best it is the best army by most commentators who know of these things,as for the Kursk offensive that was dreamed up by NATO and as well as having Ukraine.s elite forces there were a large number NATO forces fighting there.

Did you not read about Sweden.s FM having to resign after what happened to the Swedish signalmen in the Politava region when Russia discovered a military base training Ukraine servicemen.
Ukraine before this conflict started had 40 milion subjects but there less than 20 million now and although Ukraine are losing 10.000,s a great number of wealthy people left before the fighting started and you cannot blame them either fighting a proxy war for the US and NATO when they refuse to send their own soldiers there.Instead of listening to these CNN and these other western stooges you really need to see what is happening in Ukraine instead of just parroting western propaganda.

 

[petrie pie]

Hmmm - what could possibly be the reason why Russia are not conducting this exercise in the Black Sea this year?

Oh you boys are as Jethro Tull said "as thick as a brick", and you are the silliest of all although there some here who run you close.

 

[Zidane98]

Oh you boys are as Jethro Tull said "as thick as a brick", and you are the silliest of all although there some here who run you close.

Chalk up another magpie to the vatnik league table.

This is one premiership Visions will be not happy to win!

 

[Bloods86]

It is not the 2nd best it is the best army by most commentators who know of these things,as for the Kursk offensive that was dreamed up by NATO and as well as having Ukraine.s elite forces there were a large number NATO forces fighting there.

Did you not read about Sweden.s FM having to resign after what happened to the Swedish signalmen in the Politava region when Russia discovered a military base training Ukraine servicemen.
Ukraine before this conflict started had 40 milion subjects but there less than 20 million now and although Ukraine are losing 10.000,s a great number of wealthy people left before the fighting started and you cannot blame them either fighting a proxy war for the US and NATO when they refuse to send their own soldiers there.Instead of listening to these CNN and these other western stooges you really need to see what is happening in Ukraine instead of just parroting western propaganda.

Hang on... so NATO forces are simultaneously fighting alongside Ukraine, while refusing to fight alongside Ukraine (in what you describe as a proxy war).

At least make your word vomits consistent.

 

[Mobbs]

Hmmm - what could possibly be the reason why Russia are not conducting this exercise in the Black Sea this year?

With 400 of its 300 ships, no less! [K1 TG]

Putin announced the largest exercises, involving more ships than Russia has

Vladimir Putin announced the start of the largest naval exercises in 30 years, involving more than 400 ships and vessels. However, experts point out that the actual active Russian fleet numbers about 265-299 ships, which is almost half the stated number.

The Russian Defense Ministry reported that the exercises are taking place in the waters of the Pacific, Arctic Oceans, as well as the Mediterranean, Caspian, and Baltic Seas. Not only combat ships are involved, but also auxiliary vessels. More than 120 aircraft, 90,000 people, and 7,000 units of equipment are involved in the maneuvers.

State media often omitted the mention of auxiliary vessels from headlines, creating the impression that the 400 units were exclusively combat ships. In reality, according to the Global Naval Powers Ranking-2024, Russia's navy has fewer than 300 ships, some of which do not participate in exercises, including the Black Sea Fleet.

Exercises of this scale are reminiscent of the Okean maneuvers held in the USSR, but even in those years the number of ships was smaller than that declared for the current exercises.

 

[wannabejack]

...

Did you not read about Sweden.s FM having to resign after what happened to the Swedish signalmen in the Politava region when Russia discovered a military base training Ukraine servicemen.
...

Can you provide the source of your info.

I did find this info relating to "Swedish signalmen in the Politava"
5 September, 2024 Thursday

Russia blames Sweden for Poltava attack to justify its aggression

On September 3, Russia attacked the Ukrainian city of Poltava, killing over 50 people and injuring nearly 300 more. But what does Sweden have to do with this?

global.espreso.tv

For example, after the Poltava strike, Kremlin-approved media (not foreign agents) immediately reported that the missile killed both Ukrainian soldiers and Swedish mercenaries. Since media policy in Russia is coordinated at the level of the Presidential Administration, this can't be seen as an accident.

Beyond official media, this narrative was also pushed by anonymous information channels linked to Russian intelligence services and pro-Kremlin bloggers, though most of them replaced "Swedish mercenaries" with "foreigners."

Let’s quote a fragment from one of these posts:

“This incident became significant due to the presence of foreign instructors, particularly Swedish specialists, who were supposed to train Ukrainian personnel to operate the ASC 890 early warning system. Sweden, having planned the delivery of these aircraft, is now facing the loss of its instructors. This will complicate diplomatic relations between Ukraine and Sweden and could lead to a review of plans to supply military equipment and support to Ukraine.”

 

[Rob R]

It is not the 2nd best it is the best army by most commentators who know of these things,as for the Kursk offensive that was dreamed up by NATO and as well as having Ukraine.s elite forces there were a large number NATO forces fighting there.

Did you not read about Sweden.s FM having to resign after what happened to the Swedish signalmen in the Politava region when Russia discovered a military base training Ukraine servicemen.
Ukraine before this conflict started had 40 milion subjects but there less than 20 million now and although Ukraine are losing 10.000,s a great number of wealthy people left before the fighting started and you cannot blame them either fighting a proxy war for the US and NATO when they refuse to send their own soldiers there.Instead of listening to these CNN and these other western stooges you really need to see what is happening in Ukraine instead of just parroting western propaganda.

Parroting Russian propaganda again linking the murderous Russian attack to the Swedish foreign minister resigning
Perhaps instead of posting, you should just publish a daily link to Putins latest lies.

As for the population decrease, any sources for that that aren't Russian? Reuters noted a drop in the population to around 28m because of refugee flows and Russia's invasion and occupation of the east where millions are trapped or have been forced into Russia



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[Mobbs]

Russian forces deliberately targeted Ukrainian firefighters in Kupiansk, preventing them from extinguishing fires caused by previous attacks. After bombing the city center, destroying infrastructure and shops, the Russians repeatedly shelled the area while firefighters were working. [Noel Reports]

 

[Visions]

The conspiracy is strong in this one. You must be tired having hijacked the protest today waving that Russian flag.

It is not the 2nd best it is the best army by most commentators who know of these things,as for the Kursk offensive that was dreamed up by NATO and as well as having Ukraine.s elite forces there were a large number NATO forces fighting there.

Okay, now they have been upgraded to the best army in the world according to "most commentators who know of these things." Can you name 2 commentators that aren't Russian trolls?

Did these commentators take into account how the best army in the world cant even win a war against its poor neighbour?

Also NATO is fighting in Kursk. First I've heard of it. Once again can you enlighten me and link me something that isn't Russian troll farms.

Did you not read about Sweden.s FM having to resign after what happened to the Swedish signalmen in the Politava region when Russia discovered a military base training Ukraine servicemen.

So you're saying the Swedish FM resigned because of the strike on Poltova. Once again please provide a link showing that was the reason for his resignation.

Ukraine before this conflict started had 40 milion subjects but there less than 20 million now and although Ukraine are losing 10.000,s a great number of wealthy people left before the fighting started and you cannot blame them either fighting a proxy war for the US and NATO when they refuse to send their own soldiers there.

So the Ukrainian population has halved to less than 20 million now? Once again a link please.

Instead of listening to these CNN and these other western stooges you really need to see what is happening in Ukraine instead of just parroting western propaganda.

Lol. Yet you are fine parroting Russian troll propaganda? About as truthful as Trump in a press conference.