Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Zidane98]

All good. iateallthepies is good with money.
He’s closed his russian account, exchanged his russian rubles for US dollars and opened a Swiss account.

But NATO this, NATO that....

 

[wannabejack]

Must really annoy iateallthepies when 50 year old technology hand me down F-16 jets are able to shoot down $100 million worth of fascist Russian cruise missiles fired at civilian infrastructure in Ukraine:

Imagine how many lives would have been saved if Ukraine got these earlier on in the war.

A Ukrainian F-16 pilot's reported shootdown of 6 missiles in a single mission shows how its air force has evolved

Ukraine said one of its F-16 pilots shot down six missiles, which it said would be a record for the American jet.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Saint]

It'll be really interesting over the next month or two. Putin's behaviour will tell us what he thinks about Trump. If the status quo continues, then perhaps nothing will change. If Putin accelerates like these Muscovite conscriptions suggest, perhaps he's anticipating Trump being less supportive of Ukraine.

Things seem to be getting desperate for Russia if they are force-conscripting in Moscow.

 

[IlovethePies]

It'll be really interesting over the next month or two. Putin's behaviour will tell us what he thinks about Trump. If the status quo continues, then perhaps nothing will change. If Putin accelerates like these Muscovite conscriptions suggest, perhaps he's anticipating Trump being less supportive of Ukraine.

Things seem to be getting desperate for Russia if they are force-conscripting in Moscow.

Things are getting desperate for Russia and Ukraine.
Likewise for NATO,
Likewise for the US.
When the US presidential elect threatens to seize Greenland one way or the other, when NATO powers openly negotiate to get their soldiers on the border with Russia, when Bandera fascists formulate policies in Ukraine and when Russia threatens to use nuclear weapons, you start to realise that the global situation is desperate.

 

[Zidane98]

Things are getting desperate for Russia and Ukraine.
Likewise for NATO,
Likewise for the US.
When the US presidential elect threatens to seize Greenland one way or the other, when NATO powers openly negotiate to get their soldiers on the border with Russia, when Bandera fascists formulate policies in Ukraine and when Russia threatens to use nuclear weapons, you start to realise that the global situation is desperate.

 

[Zidane98]

And there it is again, another poster using the old Putin nuclear threats chestnut.


A history to the vatniks - here is a list of Putin's "threats":

21.06.2024	Putin Threatens Nuclear Response if West Bolsters Ukraine Support
20.06.2024	Russia considering changes to nuclear doctrine, Putin claims
06.06.2024	Putin warns he could provide weapons to attack the West and issues new nuclear threat
12.05.2024	Putin Ally Threatens NATO Countries With ’Special Ammunition’
10.05.2024	Belarus dictator Lukashenko admits he is ’bonkers’ and has no ’red lines’ as he threatens the West with nukes and warns ’we are closer than ever to nuclear catastrophe’
10.05.2024	Putin hires hardline professor who suggested nuking Europe to ’test NATO’s resolve’ for Kremlin role ’deterring the West’
09.05.2024	Putin Renews Nuclear Threats Against West at Military Parade
06.05.2024	Russia announces nuclear weapon drills after angry exchange with Western officials
06.05.2024	Medvedev warns of nuclear attacks on European capitals in case of sending troops to Ukraine
17.04.2024	Ukraine May Have Just Crossed Putin’s Nuclear Red Line
14.03.2024	Putin warns the West: Russia is ready for nuclear war
29.02.2024	Putin threatens NATO with nuclear strike if it sends troops to Ukraine
28.02.2024	Russia prepared for nuclear attack on China, leaked papers reveal
18.02.2024	Russia’s Medvedev threatens to nuke US, UK, Germany, Ukraine
17.01.2024	Russia-US relations 'teetering on brink of abyss,' ambassador to US says
11.01.2024	Medvedev warns of nuclear response if Ukraine hits missile launch sites
16.11.2023	Russia loads missile with nuclear-capable glide vehicle into launch silo
06.11.2023	Russian Official Issues Nuclear Weapons Warning After Historic Achievement
30.10.2023	Western policy towards Russia threatens military clash between nuclear powers — Shoigu
20.10.2023	American-led world sliding headfirst into deepest abyss, Medvedev says
05.10.2023	Russia’s retaliatory nuclear strike to leave enemy with no chances of survival — Putin
30.07.2023	Russia’s Medvedev: We’d have to use a nuclear weapon if Ukrainian offensive was a success
13.07.2023	Russia to view F-16 fighter jets in Ukraine as threat in nuclear sphere - Lavrov
03.07.2023	Russia’s Medvedev says standoff with West to last decades, Ukraine conflict ’permanent’
25.06.2023	There is no choice left: Russia will have to launch a nuclear strike on Europe
21.06.2023	US, NATO’s aggressive policies may result in clash between nuclear powers
16.06.2023	Vladimir Putin delivers keynote address at St Petersburg forum
26.05.2023	Russia’s Medvedev warns West is underestimating risks of nuclear escalation over Ukraine
23.05.2023	Russia’s Medvedev: Western arms for Ukraine make ’nuclear apocalypse’ more likely
04.05.2023	Putin Allies Split Over Using Tactical Nuclear Weapons in Ukraine
25.04.2023	Russia warns again that risks of nuclear confrontation with US growing
25.04.2023	Putin ally: We are probably on verge of a new world war
05.04.2023	Russia, US are in hot conflict phase — senior diplomat
27.03.2023	Putin ally says Russia has weapons to destroy US if its existence is threatened
26.03.2023	Putin says Moscow to place nuclear weapons in Belarus, US reacts cautiously
23.03.2023	Any attempt to arrest Putin would be declaration of war on Russia, ally says
22.03.2023	Russia says risk of nuclear conflict at highest level in decades
27.02.2023	Russia’s Medvedev says arms supplies to Kyiv threaten global nuclear catastrophe
23.02.2023	Ukraine defends front, Putin talks up nuclear arsenal on war anniversary eve
22.02.2023	Russia’s war on Ukraine latest: Putin gives nuclear warning, Biden rallies allies
04.02.2023	Russia’s Medvedev says more U.S. weapons supplies mean ’all of Ukraine will burn’
19.01.2023	Putin ally warns NATO of nuclear war if Russia is defeated in Ukraine
25.12.2022	Only Russia’s nuclear arms preventing West from declaring war - Putin ally
09.12.2022	Russia may borrow US idea of disarming strike — Putin
05.12.2022	Russia’s Lavrov: NATO policy risks ’direct clash’ between nuclear powers
30.11.2022	Russia says it will focus on building nuclear arms infrastructure in 2023
17.11.2022	Russia is not considering using nuclear weapons - Kremlin says
02.11.2022	Russia: West must stop ’encouraging provocations’ to avoid nuclear disaster
18.10.2022	Russia says seized Ukrainian lands are under its nuclear protection
13.10.2022	Russian official warns of World War Three if Ukraine joins NATO
05.10.2022	Ukraine can be defeated with a nuclear strike on the United States - Fedorov
01.10.2022	Kadyrov says Russia should use low-yield nuclear weapon
27.09.2022	Medvedev raises spectre of Russian nuclear strike on Ukraine
23.09.2022	Moscow “not threatening anyone” with nuclear weapons
22.09.2022	Russia’s Medvedev: new regions can be defended with strategic nuclear weapons
21.09.2022	Ex-Putin adviser warns UK cities could be hit with nuclear weapons if Britain ‘continues to be aggressor’
21.09.2022	Putin escalates Ukraine war, issues nuclear threat to West
18.08.2022	Russia says nuclear weapons use possible only in ’emergency circumstances’
12.08.2022	Accidents can happen at European nuclear plants too,’ Russian ex-president says
01.08.2022	Putin says no one can win a nuclear war
17.07.2022	Russia’s Medvedev: Attack on Crimea will ignite ’Judgement Day’ response
06.07.2022	Russia’s Medvedev warns United States: messing with a nuclear power is folly
12.05.2022	Russia says Finnish entry to NATO poses threat to which it will respond
10.05.2022	On possible nuclear strike, Russia says: it’s all in our military doctrine
06.05.2022	Russian will not use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, foreign ministry says
30.04.2022	Russia says risks of nuclear war must be kept to minimum, TASS reports
25.04.2022	Russia’s Lavrov: Do not underestimate threat of nuclear war
24.04.2022	Russia warns of nuclear, hypersonic deployment if Sweden and Finland join NATO
22.03.2022	Kremlin spokesman: Russia would use nuclear weapons only in case of ’threat to existence of state’
28.02.2022	You’ll face consequences greater than any in history: Putin warns West
28.02.2022	“Why Do We Need a World if Russia Is Not In It?”: State TV Presenter Opens Show With Ominous Address
27.02.2022	Putin nuclear alert order part of pattern of made-up threats, U.S. says
27.02.2022	Putin puts nuclear deterrent on alert; West squeezes Russian economy
24.02.2022	EU says Putin’s ominous threat to those who hinder him marks ’critical moment’
13.12.2021	Russia says it may be forced to deploy mid-range nuclear missiles in Europe
25.02.2019	After Putin’s warning, Russian TV lists nuclear targets in U.S.
21.02.2019	Putin to U.S.: I’m ready for another Cuban Missile-style crisis if you want one
20.02.2019	Putin threatens to target US if it deploys missiles in nearby European countries
20.12.2018	Putin warns the threat of nuclear war should not be underestimated
24.10.2018	Russia will target European countries if they host U.S. nuclear missiles: Putin
27.05.2015	Nato chief says Russian nuclear threats are ’deeply troubling and dangerous’
22.03.2015	Russia threatens to aim nuclear missiles at Denmark ships if it joins NATO shield
01.09.2014	Russia Has Threatened Nuclear Attack, Says Ukraine Defence Minister
11.07.2014	Russia Threatens Nuclear Strikes Over Crimea
14.05.2014	Rogozin: Next time I will fly the Tu-160 (nuclear bomber)
16.03.2014	Russia can turn US to radioactive ash - Kremlin-backed journalist
04.04.2012	NATO - Russia talk of pre-emptive strike unjustified
23.03.2012	Medvedev calls missile defense a threat to Russia
23.11.2011	Russia in Europe missile threat
01.12.2010	Russia’s Putin warns West over missile defense: report
13.10.2009	Russia reserves pre-emptive nuclear strike right
15.08.2008	Moscow warns it could strike Poland over US missile shield
13.02.2008	Putin issues nuclear threat to Ukraine over plan to host US shield
11.04.2007	Russia threatening new cold war over missile defence
10.12.1999	Yeltsin gives US nuclear warning

These days, Russian nuclear threats generally go to spam junkmail of wester leaders. I'm sure in private meetings they laugh at how ridiculous they are.


Imagine a poster bringing it up as a serious thing.

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

And most of this happened before Ukraine shutdown gas transit and India/China stopped accepting uninsured Russian tankers for oil delivery.


If Putin keeps up his dreams of imperialistic expansion Russia's economy is going to be in a shocking state in 12 month's time.


The time has come for him to exit Ukraine.

 

[Zidane98]

From Russian newspapers:





But everything is going great according to Adolf Putin.

 

[Chadwiko]

Ukraine's army now larger than Russia's: Kyiv

Volodymyr Zelensky said that Ukraine's army is larger than Russia's, but will it be enough to sustain the war effort as fighting escalates?

www.newsweek.com

 

[Jbudds04v2]

More targets that had to be destroyed because of NATO




I wonder how our Russian apologists will react to these statements made by Tusk

Thought that was Bill Shorten for a moment!

 

[jatz14]

They are going to find themselves in a situation where they need their frozen assets back and the sanctions lifted, to be able to stop their banking system and defence industry collapsing.

That's when the real negotiations start, when Russia cannot walk away just because it's unreasonable demands are not met.

Putin's last hope is Trump forcing Ukraine to concede, but I don't think he can.

I think that for Ukraine, with increased assistance from Europe, this war is now more sustainable than it is for Russia, even if Trump throws a tantrum.

But, as promises don't mean anything to Trump, I don't think he follows through anyway.

On SM-X200 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Zidane98]

The Russian oil refinery genocide continues



Putin unable to stop it.

 

[wannabejack]

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9477/

Military assistance to Ukraine (February 2022 to January 2025)
US assistance
After the 2024 US election, the Biden administration made clear its intention to surge as much military support to Ukraine as possible before the end of President Biden’s term in office in January 2025. As of 9 January 2025, the total level of military assistance provided by the US since the start of the Biden administration (PDF) stands at $66.5 billion. $65.9 billion of that funding had been provided since February 2022.

UK assistance
The UK is one of the leading donors to Ukraine, alongside the US and Germany. To date, the UK has pledged £12.8 billion in support to Ukraine since February 2022, of which £7.8 billion is for military assistance. This includes £3 billion for military assistance in 2024/25.

NATO assistance
In July 2024, NATO agreed to take on a greater role in the coordination of military assistance and training among NATO allies, and will work in conjunction with the US-led Ukraine Defense Contact Group. Allies also agreed to a “minimum baseline funding of €40 billion [for Ukraine military assistance] within the next year”.

EU assistance
The European Union (EU) is also providing non-lethal and lethal arms and training through its European Peace Facility (EPF). This is the first time the bloc has, in its history, approved the supply of lethal weapons to a third country.
To date, the EU has committed €11.1 billion of EPF funding for military support to Ukraine, including €5 billion for a dedicated Ukraine Assistance Fund which was agreed in March 2024. Reaching agreement on that fund has taken several months, amid disagreements on the size of the fund and how it should operate.

 

[wannabejack]

The Russian oil refinery genocide continues



Putin unable to stop it.

Ukraine need to continue manufacturing and developing their own missiles and drones so they’re not dependent on other countries.
After the war a stockpile of missiles and drones could be used to deter russia from invading again.

 

[Zidane98]

Ukraine need to continue manufacturing and developing their own missiles and drones so they’re not dependent on other countries.
After the war a stockpile of missiles and drones could be used to deter russia from invading again.

There are only 2 deterrences that work against Russia.


NATO membership or nuclear weapons.



Anything else will result in Russia rearming itself and invading again, years down the track.

 

[wannabejack]

There are only 2 deterrences that work against Russia.


NATO membership or nuclear weapons.



Anything else will result in Russia rearming itself and invading again, years down the track.

Agree. NATO membership or nuclear weapons are the best options.
But the chances of Ukraine going nuclear is almost zero.
Joining NATO is their best chance but if that doesn't happen in the short term then the threat of using a stockpile of long range missiles and drones might deter russia or at least have them pay a high price. russia is currently paying a high price with Ukraine using missiles from reluctant sources who place restrictions on how Ukraine can use these missiles.