Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[barreness]

Do you know how many basis there are in Russia, in Europe, in the US even in Australia. Should Putin invade all those countries too. The AZOV stuff was a big con, an excuse to invade. He has shown he wants to destroy Ukrainians, their culture , the whole of Ukraine and undercut for Russia’s needs.
Look at the Ukrainian ekection results to see how many voted for the nazi party. Of course in the US we actually have the Nazi party in power, yet Putin wants to be a ‘friend’ to America.
Your argument falls apart in every way. Stop being conned by psyops.

Racists? I presume.

Yes I'm aware every country has their special characters. The fact that the new regime in Ukraine made it illegal to question Bandera must raise some questions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_UkraineQ

Perehinsk
And no, barbarism against women and children there is zero excuse zero.

Ahhhhh western Ukraine, where the ultranationalists are based. I always doubt those that flee socialists govts

I think the lebensraum policies that murdered everyone slavic/jewish/other in their wake meant that the wide scale rape/murder of particularly Germans, but also collaborators is understandable if not defensible.

Millions of Ukrainians served in the red army compared to not that many in the OUN or SS divisions.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Animals

 

[OneGreatClub]

Racists? I presume.

Yes I'm aware every country has their special characters. The fact that the new regime in Ukraine made it illegal to question Bandera must raise some questions?



Ahhhhh western Ukraine, where the ultranationalists are based. I always doubt those that flee socialists govts

I think the lebensraum policies that murdered everyone slavic/jewish/other in their wake meant that the wide scale rape/murder of particularly Germans, but also collaborators is understandable if not defensible.

Millions of Ukrainians served in the red army compared to not that many in the OUN or SS divisions.

First you excuse the abduction of children.
Now you are excusing rape? Raping women? Raping children?
What an absolute low life.

Do you have family in Ukraine? In Russia?

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[barreness]

First you excuse the abduction of children.
Now you are excusing rape?
What an absolute low life.

That's why you avoid war. You think Australian soldiers haven't r*ped and pillaged their way around the world?

The Poles are still pissed about the massacres the OUN did, it's now illegal to question the OUN's leader in Ukraine. Square that circle

 

[barreness]

You should read more about lend lease. The USSR had won Stalingrad by the time that the US had sent a little grain over, the war had turned. The US did help a little with trucks and such by the time of Kursk but it was all over by then. Most lend lease went to the Brits, it kept them in the fight

The US is still supplying Ukraine with ISR and weapons, to suggest that they're helping Russia is laughable. They held back ISR for a week and Kursk collapsed, was heading that way before tbf. How are they helping Russia?

 

[OneGreatClub]

You should read more about lend lease. The USSR had won Stalingrad by the time that the US had sent a little grain over, the war had turned. The US did help a little with trucks and such by the time of Kursk but it was all over by then. Most lend lease went to the Brits, it kept them in the fight

The US is still supplying Ukraine with ISR and weapons, to suggest that they're helping Russia is laughable. They held back ISR for a week and Kursk collapsed, was heading that way before tbf. How are they helping Russia?

Are you Russian?

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[CD Xbow]

You should read more about lend lease. The USSR had won Stalingrad by the time that the US had sent a little grain over, the war had turned. The US did help a little with trucks and such by the time of Kursk but it was all over by then. Most lend lease went to the Brits, it kept them in the fight

The US is still supplying Ukraine with ISR and weapons, to suggest that they're helping Russia is laughable. They held back ISR for a week and Kursk collapsed, was heading that way before tbf. How are they helping Russia?

FMD, that is historical revisionism at it's best. You're hopeless.

You are so dumb, you don't think the 14,000 aircraft, 7000 tanks, thousand of various artillery pieces, 375,000 other vehicles, millions of tonnes of food and aid etc that the allies provided made a difference to the soviet war effort. Most scholars believe it was critical.

Really you are becoming so depressingly stupid, I think you should take a break.

 

[barreness]

FMD, that is historical revisionism at it's best. You're hopeless.

You are so dumb, you don't think the 14,000 aircraft, 7000 tanks, thousand of various artillery pieces, 375,000 other vehicles, millions of tonnes of food and aid etc that the allies provided made a difference to the soviet war effort. Most scholars believe it was critical.

Really you are becoming so depressingly stupid, I think you should take a break.

You need timelines man, look how much they had at Stalingrad? sweet fa. Most scholars would tell you that's where the war turned

Had a fair bit a Kursk, that's when there was no hope for the Nazis. Of course all the things you mentioned made the counter attack a lot quicker and finished the war quicker.

It's constantly this narrative in this thread and general western propaganda, oh the USSR only held out because we helped them etc

 

[barreness]

Aid to Ukraine ~380 billion, Aid to the USSR ~152 billion

 

[CD Xbow]

You need timelines man, look how much they had at Stalingrad? sweet fa. Most scholars would tell you that's where the war turned

Had a fair bit a Kursk, that's when there was no hope for the Nazis. Of course all the things you mentioned made the counter attack a lot quicker and finished the war quicker.

It's constantly this narrative in this thread and general western propaganda, oh the USSR only held out because we helped them etc

Yes, they did hold on because of Western supplies and more importantly it provided the arms and the vehicles to drive the Nazis out of Russia. It would not have happened without that aid. It's not western propaganda. Material transfers started in 1941. The battle for Stalingrad started mid 1942. The Studebaker US6 use in the battle of Stalingrad is well documented, but someone like you just prefers to spreads lies rather than truths. Repeat Russian propaganda. The Russians only manufactured 200,000 vehicles during the war, but they received 2 to 3 that number from the allies. You can't prosecute high intensity modern warfare without the products of a significant industrial base and that aid was crucial to Russia being able to fight the Nazis successfully.

 

[barreness]

Yes, they did hold on because of Western supplies and more importantly it provided the arms and the vehicles to drive the Nazis out of Russia. It would not have happened without that aid. It's not western propaganda. Material transfers started in 1941. The battle for Stalingrad started mid 1942. The Studebaker US6 use in the battle of Stalingrad is well documented, but someone like you just prefers to spreads lies rather than truths. Repeat Russian propaganda. The Russians only manufactured 200,000 vehicles during the war, but they received 2 to 3 that number from the allies. You can't prosecute high intensity modern warfare without the products of a significant industrial base and that aid was crucial to Russia being able to fight the Nazis successfully.

Sure, I don't think anyone would say it didn't help. The allied invasion of Normandy probably fails without the Romanian oilfields being taken, battle of the bulge is turned when the Germans run out of fuel

Stalingrad is won by the end of 1942(essentially, Germany refused to withdraw), only ~16% of lend lease by tonnage had been delivered by then and it was favoured to the food etc categories.

It's propaganda itself to suggest that the soviets only turned the tide with US help. It definitely helped but they would have still turned the tide regardless imo. The USSR would maybe have talked peace around Ukraine rather than taking Berlin without lend lease(*history what ifs, which I shouldn't do)

 

[barreness]

Just cause I feel like it i'll add

Yes the US shipped them cars and trucks, maybe 400k
The USSR built 90k T-34's

Which one wins the war?

There's a deeper message about energy here. The Nazi's and Japan only really lose when they run out of oil, which is why Stalingrad was so important and goes to show how important it still is in this current conflict

 

[Jamolad]

How does the fuel and munitions get to the 90k T-34s without the 400k trucks and vehicles?

How do the troops get supplied?

How many T-34 would they have manufactured if they also had to manufacture 400k vehicles too?

Logistics wins wars.

Stalingrad is only important because it was one of Hitler's downfall - should have never split his armies, should have just gone for the oil.

 

[OneGreatClub]

That's why you avoid war. You think Australian soldiers haven't r*ped and pillaged their way around the world?

The Poles are still pissed about the massacres the OUN did, it's now illegal to question the OUN's leader in Ukraine. Square that circle

Well
Perhaps tell your hero Putin to avoid war. It was he who invaded Ukraine.


I think you are Russian.
Why does Putin kill his opposition leaders?
If you hate war so much why are you the cheer squad for Putin?
If you hate war so much why are you not demanding he pull his army out of Ukraine?
Why does he have the right to invade his neighbour?
Why do you excuse genocide, stealing children, raping women and children?
Why are you a Putin apologist?
Are you aware Ukraine gained Independence from the Soviet Union?
Are you aware he interferes in the politics of all countries?
Why have you never denounced him?
If Putin is such a good guy why are the Baltic states and most of Europe denouncing him and preparing to defend themselves?
Are they all nazis now??

You are just a plain old and quite disgusting, might I add, Russian troll.

 

[barreness]

Well
Perhaps tell your hero Putin to avoid war. It was he who invaded Ukraine.


I think you are Russian.

Of course comrade

Why does Putin kill his opposition leaders?

Because he's an autocratic dictator of an empire......and ex kgb

If you hate war so much why are you the cheer squad for Putin?
If you hate war so much why are you not demanding he pull his army out of Ukraine?
Why does he have the right to invade his neighbour?
Why do you excuse genocide, stealing children, raping women and children?
Why are you a Putin apologist?
Are you aware Ukraine gained Independence from the Soviet Union?
Are you aware he interferes in the politics of all countries?
Why have you never denounced him?
If Putin is such a good guy why are the Baltic states and most of Europe denouncing him and preparing to defend themselves?
Are they all nazis now??

Repeat all of the answers for the one above

You are just a plain old and quite disgusting, might I add, Russian troll.

Why did the US empire advance into eastern Europe? This is the question that drives it

 

[OneGreatClub]

This is why Trump loves Putin. They are both invaders.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Of course comrade

Because he's an autocratic dictator of an empire......and ex kgb

Repeat all of the answers for the one above

Why did the US empire advance into eastern Europe? This is the question that drives it

Ah that old excuse

 

[Dom PC]

It's a shame the like button in this forum doesn't have a tin foil hat reaction. Sadly I'd use it quite a bit in this thread.

 

[Zidane98]

Why did the US empire advance into eastern Europe? This is the question that drives it

Another false statement. Do you know anything other than Russian lies?

 

[Zidane98]

The horrors that await once Russian Nazis vacate Mariupol will be extensive. Probably the single largest mass slaughter of civilians since WW2 in Europe. We've already seen what they did in Bucha & Lyman.

 

[wannabejack]

.... it's now illegal to question the OUN's leader in Ukraine...

Can't find anything that says there's a law that makes it "illegal to question the OUN's leader in Ukraine".

 

[Aussie in exile]

Can't find anything that says there's a law that makes it "illegal to question the OUN's leader in Ukraine".

There isn't one. It's just Barreness being pro Russian and pro war and pro putin

 

[Zidane98]

Aid to Ukraine ~380 billion, Aid to the USSR ~152 billion

You are lying again. Up to date aid figures for Ukraine:

Ukraine Support Tracker - A Database of Military, Financial and Humanitarian Aid to Ukraine

The Ukraine Support Tracker lists and quantifies military, financial and humanitarian aid promised by governments to Ukraine.

www.ifw-kiel.de

As of Feb 2025, the total was $247 billion.

Adding to this a huge amount of military aid from the US was obsolete equipment, expired munitions that were being disposed of / retired.

Instead of discarding them using them to hold off Nazi Russia was a great move.

USSR was charged 10 cents in the dollar for its aid it received under lend lease from the US.


In real terms it's worth nearly 1.8 trillion however the obligation was only $180 billion. In today's money.

Trump should turn around and demand payment in full for the complete lend lease value from Russia as the state who inherits all USSR debts.