List Mgmt. We Got Him! Beams Trade Discussion (Not the Hype Thread)

[John_Proctor]

I too would love to keep Crisp but from those last 6 games if I was the Pies I think he'd be the logical one to ask for. he is a poor man's Beams (lacks the inside component of game). pace through the midfield, decent penetration wiht kicking, taller so decent overhead for a midfielder and kicked a goal a game.

if they could get him and brayshaw with pick 4. they'd have a very good inside/outside combo for the next 10 years to replace Beams.

some of my highlights of our year were two of Crisps goals where he recieved the ball roughly in line with the centre circle after a chain of handballs from defence and jus tput on the afterburners running away from chasers and slotting the goal after a bounce or two.

 

[POBT]

Been a fair bit of criticism of the Lions' supporters' list of so-called "untouchables" in the trade for Beams.

I think it misses two key points.

1. Trading a player who wants to leave is fundamentally different to trying to convince a bloke to leave when he really wants to stay. If we assume that all our "untouchables" want to stay, then that goes a long way to taking them out of the equation in terms of a trade. If we hear a Rich or Hanley wants out, then it completely changes the situation and they are suddenly "in play" for the Pies and makes it more feasible that a "like for like" trade could eventuate. But without that player wanting to leave, it is very difficult to reach a middle ground where the Pies get a guaranteed AFL level player.

2. Most clubs have a fairly lengthy list of players that, in ordinary circumstances, they would not consider tradeable. If I take the Bulldogs as an example (given we've finished next to each other on the ladder for the last two years) - their "untouchables" would be at least the following: Bontompelli, Dalhaus, Crameri, Stringer, Macrae, Griffen, Liberatore, Roughead, Hrovat, Hunter, Talia and probably a couple of others. That's at least 11, and possibly more, who wouldn't be on the table unless they specifically requested a trade. Not so different from us, I suspect. To bring this analysis closer to the current situation - let's imagine Hanley demanded a trade to Collingwood. I suspect the following Pies would off limits in terms of a trade - Grundy, Kennedy, Pendlebury, Adams, Beams, Elliot, Reid, Sidebottom, Broomhead, Cloke, Scharenberg, Freeman and, again, probably a few more. That's at least a dozen "no deal" players from Collingwood.

It seems to me that no club is going offer up a required player as part of a trade unless that player wants out for some reason.

 

[Duritz]

I too would love to keep Crisp but from those last 6 games if I was the Pies I think he'd be the logical one to ask for. he is a poor man's Beams (lacks the inside component of game). pace through the midfield, decent penetration wiht kicking, taller so decent overhead for a midfielder and kicked a goal a game.

if they could get him and brayshaw with pick 4. they'd have a very good inside/outside combo for the next 10 years to replace Beams.

some of my highlights of our year were two of Crisps goals where he recieved the ball roughly in line with the centre circle after a chain of handballs from defence and jus tput on the afterburners running away from chasers and slotting the goal after a bounce or two.

Agreed. Finished the year well. Him + pick 4 is > Beams

 

[Balony_pony16]

Been a fair bit of criticism of the Lions' supporters' list of so-called "untouchables" in the trade for Beams.

I think it misses two key points.

1. Trading a player who wants to leave is fundamentally different to trying to convince a bloke to leave when he really wants to stay. If we assume that all our "untouchables" want to stay, then that goes a long way to taking them out of the equation in terms of a trade. If we hear a Rich or Hanley wants out, then it completely changes the situation and they are suddenly "in play" for the Pies and makes it more feasible that a "like for like" trade could eventuate. But without that player wanting to leave, it is very difficult to reach a middle ground where the Pies get a guaranteed AFL level player.

2. Most clubs have a fairly lengthy list of players that, in ordinary circumstances, they would not consider tradeable. If I take the Bulldogs as an example (given we've finished next to each other on the ladder for the last two years) - their "untouchables" would be at least the following: Bontompelli, Dalhaus, Crameri, Stringer, Macrae, Griffen, Liberatore, Roughead, Hrovat, Hunter, Talia and probably a couple of others. That's at least 11, and possibly more, who wouldn't be on the table unless they specifically requested a trade. Not so different from us, I suspect. To bring this analysis closer to the current situation - let's imagine Hanley demanded a trade to Collingwood. I suspect the following Pies would off limits in terms of a trade - Grundy, Kennedy, Pendlebury, Adams, Beams, Elliot, Reid, Sidebottom, Broomhead, Cloke, Scharenberg, Freeman and, again, probably a few more. That's at least a dozen "no deal" players from Collingwood.

It seems to me that no club is going offer up a required player as part of a trade unless that player wants out for some reason.

Great post...adding to point #1, if we remember back to the fev deal with Voss putting Risky and Bradshaw on the table against their wishes and what it did to our club then people should understand why the Lions WONT be putting top players on the table who want to be here. The pies will need to approach players like hanley, Aish, Rich etc... and sound out their interest in leaving the Lions. The club itself wont put them up, and unless one comes out a requests a trade. So until/unless that happens they stay on the untouchable list. Pretty straight forward a lot of Pies fans are struggling to grasp

 

[Hollow Knight]

Congratulations to danielnajdek on his fiftieth "untouchable" joke this week.

We should get him a cake and a non-pixelated avatar.

 

[Cosmic_Lion]

I wonder if Swanns comments yesterday about Frawley not worth pick 3 has altered the mindset of a few pies fans regarding the Beams deal.

I'm noticing all of a sudden pick 4+24 seems to be a lot closer and fairer in a lot of Collingwood members minds lately when it was outrageous only a week ago.

Maybe Swanny deliberately played the Frawley card yesterday to sub-consciously plant the "Beams is better then Frawley and should be a top pick when Frawley isn't" mindset.....

 

[Toffee Lion]

Congratulations to danielnajdek on his fiftieth "untouchable" joke this week.

We should get him a cake and a non-pixelated avatar.

The cakes untouchable.

 

[maroon and blue]

Crisp will be as good a player if not better than Dayne. No trade.

 

[POBT]

Crisp will be as good a player if not better than Dayne. No trade.

Come on. That's the sort of crap that makes the rest of us look like one eyed morons. Even if you believe it, it can't be supported by any evidence whatsoever.

 

[knaf]

Crisp will be as good a player if not better than Dayne. No trade.

Beams and the pies first round pick for Crisp?

 

[maroon and blue]

Come on. That's the sort of crap that makes the rest of us look like one eyed morons. Even if you believe it, it can't be supported by any evidence whatsoever.

So your fantasy pick is better than mine. Aren't we playing pretends?

 

[maroon and blue]

Real, this is real? I...I didn't realize. There are reputations at stake if I choose the wrong trade. Be serious M&B, try hard.
Pick 4 and this lot:

 

[Davemonkey]

That bloke on the left could build a new high performance facility out of Queensland's abundance of palm fronds and some imported coconuts, the gentleman in the suit can bankroll it and based on his known performance the bloke in the red shirt is a shoe in for our chairman.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Choppers Ashcroft just interviewed on TWR...

They are clearly right into Malceski and are ready to "ramp up discussions".

On Beams: Basically intimated that if it falls over with Brisbane and Collingwood they'd have a discussion with Collingwood but it wasn't a convincing statement. Sounded very much like he knows we are in the box seat and was just taking a "keeping them honest" posture and not much more. I suspect the more optimistic Collingwood supporters will read something very different into it though.

Doesn't sound like they have any expectation of having a new coach in place before the end of the trade period. Talking about a pretty substantial, multi-stage selection process and they "aren't going to be rushed".

 

[Happy_Neale]

Choppers Ashcroft just interviewed on TWR...

They are clearly right into Malceski and are ready to "ramp up discussions".

On Beams: Basically intimated that if it falls over with Brisbane and Collingwood they'd have a discussion with Collingwood but it wasn't a convincing statement. Sounded very much like he knows we are in the box seat and was just taking a "keeping them honest" posture and not much more. I suspect the more optimistic Collingwood supporters will read something very different into it though.

Doesn't sound like they have any expectation of having a new coach in place before the end of the trade period. Talking about a pretty substantial, multi-stage selection process and they "aren't going to be rushed".

Question has to be asked as to why they waited so long to sack him if that's the case.

 

[whatboutbob]

Real, this is real? I...I didn't realize. There are reputations at stake if I choose the wrong trade.

Nope, but trolling like yours and the resultant bites makes reading this forum even less pleasant than it normally is at this time of year.

It might give some posters pleasure rubbing Pies fans' faces in it, but others just find it tiresome and puerile.

 

[Camblan]

Gold Coast know they're second fiddle, so their best bet is to keep quiet and try snap up Dayne if communication breaks down between brisbane and collingwood. As I see it, that's less likely to happen than Dayne going to Brisbane but more likely than Dayne staying.

So guestimating:
10% we get Dayne for pick 4 (or less...)
30% we get Dayne for pick 4 + Fringe/ pick 22 (Crisp, Lester, Golby, Harwood)
10% we get Dayne for pick 4 + Fringe/ pick 22 + More
35ish% Gold Coast pick up Dayne at the 11th hour
15% Dayne stays at Collingwood.

But can I just say, the more I think about it the more I question how much a successful trade for Dayne Beams would benefit the club. Yeah, to me his top 20 player, the age bracket we're looking for and teams always seem to need more midfielders these days. With him, we hypothetically are in contention for a top 8 spot.

But pick 4 means we're guaranteed McCartin or Wright or one of the top 2 Key Position players of that draft, which we so desperately need. Midfielders seem to grow on trees these days, whilst quality fey forwards are at such a premium. I'm of the school of thought, that next year is a development year whether we like it or not (Dayne Beams or not). To me pick 4 might not be worth much to Collingwood but it could potentially set up our spearhead for a whole generation.

Specifically, my burning question is: If we get Beams, how do we plan to cover all the other positional gaps in our team?

 

[Hollow Knight]

35ish% Gold Coast pick up Dayne at the 11th hour

Put a decimal point between the 3 and the 5 and I reckon you'd be closer to the mark.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Ashcroft on Beams at 15:08.

Suspect that Pies fans thinking it has become an auction are getting a tad carried away.

 

[Roylion]

On Beams: Basically intimated that if it falls over with Brisbane and Collingwood they'd have a discussion with Collingwood.... I suspect the more optimistic Collingwood supporters will read something very different into it though.

Without a doubt. Now we'll see the "Pick 4 + Hanley /Rockcliff proposals or he stays at Collingwood / or we'll deal with Gold Coast" all over again.

I don't think the Suns have quite the salary cap space to offer as lucrative a contract to Beams as Brisbane (or for that matter Collingwood) could.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Without a doubt. Now we'll see the "Pick 4 + Hanley /Rockcliff proposals or he stays at Collingwood / or we'll deal with Gold Coast" all over again.

I don't think the Suns have quite the salary cap space to offer as lucrative a contract to Beams as Brisbane (or for that matter Collingwood) could.

Especially once they grab Malceski.

On top of that, just can't imagine for a moment them undertaking the significant reshape of the list in order to fit Beams in without a senior coach in place. Very fanciful.

 

[neg99]

Gold Coast know they're second fiddle, so their best bet is to keep quiet and try snap up Dayne if communication breaks down between brisbane and collingwood. As I see it, that's less likely to happen than Dayne going to Brisbane but more likely than Dayne staying.

So guestimating:
10% we get Dayne for pick 4 (or less...)
30% we get Dayne for pick 4 + Fringe/ pick 22 (Crisp, Lester, Golby, Harwood)
10% we get Dayne for pick 4 + Fringe/ pick 22 + More
35ish% Gold Coast pick up Dayne at the 11th hour
15% Dayne stays at Collingwood.

But can I just say, the more I think about it the more I question how much a successful trade for Dayne Beams would benefit the club. Yeah, to me his top 20 player, the age bracket we're looking for and teams always seem to need more midfielders these days. With him, we hypothetically are in contention for a top 8 spot.

But pick 4 means we're guaranteed McCartin or Wright or one of the top 2 Key Position players of that draft, which we so desperately need. Midfielders seem to grow on trees these days, whilst quality fey forwards are at such a premium. I'm of the school of thought, that next year is a development year whether we like it or not (Dayne Beams or not). To me pick 4 might not be worth much to Collingwood but it could potentially set up our spearhead for a whole generation.

Specifically, my burning question is: If we get Beams, how do we plan to cover all the other positional gaps in our team?

Pretty sure Leppa at the fan forum said they didn't really rate the KPP talent as highly as others in this year's draft. The Frawley compo does make a big difference given the apparent 1-4/5 onwards gap too. I think we're going to back in Close, Freeman and one of the academy boys to develop in those positions long term. We certainly need a guerrilla keeper down back and proper full forward up front but I'm not sure we're convinced pick 4 will net either of those things.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Balony_pony16]

Ashcroft on Beams at 15:08.

Suspect that Pies fans thinking it has become an auction are getting a tad carried away.

yeah I was listening today... He seemed to say that if the Lions and Pies talks fall over the GC would be happy to have talks

 

[Big Sauce 21]

even that little talk will make sure Brisbane get the deal done this year.

 

[Roylion]

Especially once they grab Malceski.

Agreed.

So if a deal can't be done between Brisbane and Collingwood ( and I would say this is, at this stage, remote), does Beams want to take a pay cut to play at the Gold Coast. Or does he stay at Collingwood on his current (or a re-negotiated contract) that still might be smaller than what Brisbane are capable of offering.