Lace Out
Full of it.
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I don't think anyone is "praying" either mate
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List Mgmt. We Got Him! Beams Trade Discussion (Not the Hype Thread)
- Thread starter Ironmonger
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Caiphus
*error*
At the end of the day, it isn't our job to convince a player to go to Collingwood. And as we learnt last year if a player wants to go somewhere there isn't much we can do to stop them. The idea that Patfull would be open to playing at another club was something inconceivable to us just two weeks ago. If any of our players wanted to go to Collingwood they will be packaged up. The Pies would already be talking to these players managers to sound them out regardless of our stance of who is "untouchable" or not. A lot can happen by 5pm Friday too. I would say at this stage that no Brisbane player who would be considered to have currency to the Pies has been volunteering themselves to go.
We aren't going to force anyone to go because in a vacuum the picks should be enough for Beams's value. If Collingwood manage to pry someone loose then more the better for them, because we would then have evidence that not much has changed in the last year and we need to work even harder to fix issues.
I don't believe we are a spiteful club either and that we will try our best to create a win/win situation within reason. It is time for Collingwood to exercise their own agency in creating a positive change out of a shitty situation and all their chest-beating and blaming of others for the issues they are facing doesn't help them.
We aren't going to force anyone to go because in a vacuum the picks should be enough for Beams's value. If Collingwood manage to pry someone loose then more the better for them, because we would then have evidence that not much has changed in the last year and we need to work even harder to fix issues.
I don't believe we are a spiteful club either and that we will try our best to create a win/win situation within reason. It is time for Collingwood to exercise their own agency in creating a positive change out of a shitty situation and all their chest-beating and blaming of others for the issues they are facing doesn't help them.
Ironmonger
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On the Greenwood trade, I won't get my hopes up just yet. Collingwood would try to keep those separate as long as possible. If it's true that they're going to get a second round pick for Lumumba (although who knows?) then they'd be hoping to use that for the Greenwood trade, get that sorted, and then come back to us with nothing changed.
Hopefully North Melbourne try to string this out. They'd obviously be aware that their best chance of getting an improved pick is if it comes from us. The question is whether a few spots in the second round is worth dragging this on.
Hopefully North Melbourne try to string this out. They'd obviously be aware that their best chance of getting an improved pick is if it comes from us. The question is whether a few spots in the second round is worth dragging this on.
Hollow Knight
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Has been an amusing 4th so far!
Alan Smithee
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We may not be trading pokeman cards but how about trading AFL player POGS instead?
Pokemon! Pokemon with the "pokey" and the "mon" and the thing where the guy comes out of the thing and then he zsdhthfsofy falls on him zod om zod om!
That's my exact same worry IM. We have to try and get involved as early as possible to try and limit our potential loss.
Dr Noodles
Team Captain
And I thought last year's trade period was traumatizing..
QAFL_Fan
Club Legend
I perhaps don't look at their list in as much detail as others, but I look at their side when everyone is fit and think Zorko could be borderline. I like Zorks, and could be accused of underrating him, but I'm always conservative when assessing onballers from bottom 5 sides (which we are one) because they often get overrated purely on numbers. Whereas the more competitive clubs have guys getting minimal midfield minutes, who are arguably better footballers than starting onballers at lower ranked clubs - and therefore their numbers are much worse.
Pendlebury, Swan, Sidebottom, Adams, Elliott, Thomas, Dwyer - might be rated higher than Zorks internally by the Pies (not by me) Possibly even an injury free Fasolo too!
However, having taken out D.Thomas, L.Ball and now D.Beams - you can see why they don't want another 17/18 year old when they have recent first round draft picks on their list developing in Kennedy, Broomhead, Sharenberg, Freeman in addition to speculative players like Seedsman & Martin.
They think they are finals candidates, not rebuilding. I say they are kidding themselves on that front. But if they think they are finals candidates, then they are already leaning towards being 'too young' - giving up their 2nd best player for 2x 18 year olds - won't help!
Just being pragmatic. If Rockliff decided tomorrow he wanted to go to Victoria and someone offered us Pick 5 and a fringe player, I'd be very upset. And Rockliff isn't as good as Beams.
Established and proven talent will always trump a draft pick.
Alan Smithee
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Looks like the Beams trade has turned into a real Mexican stand off! (At least it would if GC were actually a real option as well)
Hollow Knight
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I don't think Zorko is rated in numbers, I think he is rated on pace, line breaking and his sheer energy and work rate.
Untouchable! (there you go pixelated avatar Collingwood fan... Have fun with it!)
Untouchable! (there you go pixelated avatar Collingwood fan... Have fun with it!)
Not sure in what way Collingwood are shifting goalposts. From what I've read, nothing has changed.
Fair enough. Just taking poetic license in response to some posters suggesting that the Greenwood situation changes the Beams situation.
QAFL_Fan
Club Legend
Gary Pert comparing this to the Judd trade is laughable. However, unfortunately for us - Judd wasn't under contract and Beams is.
From memory that was Pick 3 + Pick 20 + Josh Kennedy. So 1 first rounder, early 2nd rounder and a young KP drafted with Pick 4.
Beams by extension, taking into account the contract, is worth the 1st rounder and the player (without the 2nd pick)
I think there were other later exchanges in that deal, but that was the nuts and bolts from memory.
Hollow Knight
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Once Beams demanded a trade, the only thing guaranteed was that Collingwood fans were going to be upset. It's a shit situation for them and it would be a shit situation for us if it was Rockliff in the same boat.
If the criteria Collingwood are setting for this trade is that they have to be "happy" at the end of it, then the trade is clearly not going to happen. You don't get a "happy" trade when a star player demands a trade.
It becomes a "damage minimisation" trade and I think Brisbane are willing to come to the party in that capacity - but we aren't going to damage ourselves.
We don't need Beams at "any cost". For his extreme quality, there is a point where it becomes not worth the effort, in terms of cash, what we give up, and the cultural implications of what we have given up.
I'm just being pragmatic too.
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Alan Smithee
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So true - but at that same time Judd hadn't previously faced serious criminal allegations or wasn't on his third strike re drug tests that Beams is allegedly on.
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Elliott, Thomas and Dwyer??
I'm genuinely unsure if you're being serious here.
whatboutbob
Serial Avatar Troll
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-30/pies-no-to-no4
Hines said he wants Pick 4 + a ready made player to replace Beams.
Is anyone arguing that Greenwood's not a ready-made player?
If they then come out and say 'oh, actually, we want 2 ready made players to replace Beams, or we're not letting him get back home to dad' the media will turn on them.
I just.........
QAFL_Fan
Club Legend
If we can satisfy North, then that should be the deal done hopefully.
His untimely 3rd place BnF has the muddied the waters of his value unfortunately, thank god he is out of contract.
Out: 1st and 2nd round picks
IN: Beams
Pies:
Out: Beams
IN: Greenwood + Pick 5
Roos:
Out: Greenwood
IN: 2nd rounder
The only team getting screwed is North, but they have an uncontracted player seeking to leave so..lets get it done!
His untimely 3rd place BnF has the muddied the waters of his value unfortunately, thank god he is out of contract.
Out: 1st and 2nd round picks
IN: Beams
Pies:
Out: Beams
IN: Greenwood + Pick 5
Roos:
Out: Greenwood
IN: 2nd rounder
The only team getting screwed is North, but they have an uncontracted player seeking to leave so..lets get it done!
Hollow Knight
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We have to offer North somethng appreciably more for Greenwood than what Collingwood can and set a new benchmark of his value, otherwise Collingwood can make it happen via a Lamumba three way trade.
Our second + Merrett could be what it takes.
No goalpost shifting by Collingwood. Eade also said that we need a bigger bodied mature player to support Pendles AND BEAMS IF HE STAYS. You would reasonably suspect that Greenwood would be the big bodied player to support Beams' replacement. That's how I'd read it anyway.
Understand this is an opposition board but I have a question I think is suited to those who know the Brisbane list best.
With Greenwood looking likely to come to the pies, we are trying to address the gap Beams will leave in our midfield (hard, tough, inside clearance player). The other gap in our list is our foot skills. Is there someone on the Brisbane list (other than the names in this thread's title) that fits the description of a midfielder or flanker with good decision making and precise foot skills?
Now I know you guys don't want to give up pick 5 + a player so I'm asking for insights rather than try to gage if you would be happy giving that particular player.
With Greenwood looking likely to come to the pies, we are trying to address the gap Beams will leave in our midfield (hard, tough, inside clearance player). The other gap in our list is our foot skills. Is there someone on the Brisbane list (other than the names in this thread's title) that fits the description of a midfielder or flanker with good decision making and precise foot skills?
Now I know you guys don't want to give up pick 5 + a player so I'm asking for insights rather than try to gage if you would be happy giving that particular player.
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****ing stupid birds. Hate them.
whatboutbob
Serial Avatar Troll
We'll let's agree to disagree. I do know a few journos see it my way though.
I don't get how this is the case, if we give north our second rounder then the pies get their mature mid, pick 5 and can keep a hold of their second round picks, or on-trade them for new talent. What difference does it make if the pies trade their pick 30 or our pick 25?
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