Weaver's phantom draft 2006

[sinepari]

I skipped on Benjamin because of the presence of JON and to a lesser extent Casserley. Benjamin is too similar to them for our first pick. I think Boak has Dal Santo like qualities and will be a special player in a few years.

Finally someone who agrees with me. To take Benjamin would be stupid recruiting, as JON play prectically the same role.

 

[Delidio]

not sure if this has been covered, but sam sheldon is playing tac cup next year according to afl.com

 

[TheBacko]

The draft isn't always about merit / performance. 200cm ruckmen with good skills, hands and some footy smarts are rare. He has no muscle definition at the moment, and is slow off the mark, but looks a good ruck/forward prospect.

Plenty of people are prepared to put Tippett in the top-10 - well Goldstein has shown at least as much. I am putting his name forward as someone who will 'suprise' on draft day.



Daniel Jackson was/is a pure athlete with little clue of how to play, no good form behind him and no obvious AFL position to play in.

Sheldon is a genuine winger with pace, skills and class. Carlton might try to convince him not to nominate but how many here would turn down a $40k job? Effectively guarenteed $100k (minimum) over 2 years if he is drafted. On the other hand he does a knee next preseason, or struggles? Also why would Carlton be so keen to give up a 3rd round pick next year when a 5th rounder could suffice this year?



MacKay is an AFL type. A running player with OK pace and very good kicking. Kelly is not an AFL type. Little stamina, pace or kicking skill but wonderfully tough, aggresive and footy smart.

Smith is certainly a rookie list candidate. Realistically the difference in someone at 35 and a late rookie listing is typically really small. You could throw a blanket over 60 blokes and any could get picked up.

I just think Smith lacks a real stand-out quality.




I skipped on Benjamin because of the presence of JON and to a lesser extent Casserley. Benjamin is too similar to them for our first pick. I think Boak has Dal Santo like qualities and will be a special player in a few years.

thanks for answering those. good point about benjamin, & i understand about goldstein, although i still think he's a bit too early. have to still disagree about sheldon, but overall pretty happy with those answers. thanks again.

 

[FixterFan]

As plenty have said before me, good work! It's always fantastic to hear from people who have a good grasp on the true workings of drafting and who have watched the kids play extensively.

I think it has been said in one of the previous posts, but the draft numbers for the Swans in your mock draft isn't correct - we have the #49 draft pick while West Coast has the #50 draft pick, and you missed out on our 3rd round pick.

Anyway, onto my real question:

20. Chris Schmidt (Essendon) - Quite quick with passable skills off the half-back flank. Was second only to Gibbs at the Championship in a poor SA side. Has the right combination of size, speed and skills to be a valuable utility at AFL level. Needs to learn to keep his kicks down and get penetration on them – he kicks too many floaters. Also prone to fumbling which will hurt his chances in the centre square. Courageous in the spoil.

Would you be able to give a rough approximation of how Chris Schmidt's kicking (in combination with decision-making) at junior level compares with Tim Schmidt's kicking at junior level? It'll make it easier for me to visualise the quality of Chris's skills - I watched the Under 18 National Championships on TV, but found it extremely hard to differentiate players from one another, wheras I've watched Tim a lot more. And I believe both pretty much went through the same development paths, which will make it interesting to see where and how they differ both now and in the coming years. Thanks!

 

[Lingsface]

Personally I think Benjamin is the biggest chance of falling alot out of the predicted first rounders.

 

[Big Cox]

Riewoldt at 33 . Remind me when hell froze over cos that would be more likely

 

[smithos]

Personally I think Benjamin is the biggest chance of falling alot out of the predicted first rounders.

Agree with this. In between size, not a lot of natural footballing ability and whilst he tested ok at draft camp, he didn't blitz the field like what was predicted last year, on top of that in the games I've seen he never seems that quick.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Riewoldt at 33 . Remind me when hell froze over cos that would be more likely

What, like Andrew Swallow falling to #43 last year, or McEntee falling through to the rookie draft?

 

[macca69]

Finally someone who agrees with me. To take Benjamin would be stupid recruiting, as JON play prectically the same role.

I'm not sure it works like that. Most clubs have a system and stick to it. Like Weaver said we have taken 4 inside mids in a row with our first pick, Waters and Hurn are similar didn't stop us taking them.

Melbourne got Sylvia and McLean in the same draft. Adelaide have recently picked up guys that are very good atletically Reilly, Van Berlo, etc. Collingwood have picked flashy mids early recently, Thomas, Egan, etc. Essendon tend to take KPP/rucks early Ryder, Laycock, Bolton, etc.

Not critisising these trends, but generally the recruiting manager adheres to the requests of the coach to recruit certain types, and trends tend to continue even when there is an apparant need for something else. Coaches tend to have a particular idea of how the best way to go about winning a footy game is, and ideally want to pick players that suit that style of play. Like Sydney taking 3 mids last year.

Obviously if there is a talented player that's slipped a club may well pick them. However clubs can easily change what they look for in a draft. Adelaide have said they are after KPP for example.

Didn't mean to ramble on this much, but I personally don't subscribe to the theory that just because a certain type of player was picked one year, it means they won't look at a similar type the following year, when history tends to disagree.

Don't mean to be rude Weaver, but it's somewhat hypocritical to say stuff like West Coast will pick an inside mid because they have done that in the past, and Port will pick taller mids, and Freo smaller ones because of the trend, and then say Richmond won't do it because they did it last year. Don't get me wrong it's a great phantom draft and I appreciate the effort that went into it, it's just your reasoning for some picks are contradicted in others.

 

[Weaver]

Don't mean to be rude Weaver, but it's somewhat hypocritical to say stuff like West Coast will pick an inside mid because they have done that in the past, and Port will pick taller mids, and Freo smaller ones because of the trend, and then say Richmond won't do it because they did it last year. Don't get me wrong it's a great phantom draft and I appreciate the effort that went into it, it's just your reasoning for some picks are contradicted in others.

I am not saying that at all. I have for example put Hawksley in as our second round pick and he is that type again. Schofield is a similar light athletic type to Thursfield. Boak is a light, wingman with class and very much of a 'type' that I see Richmond recruiting.

I have heavily weighted my Richmond picks towards the 'type' and game plan (and copped a lot of abuse from Richmond people who still refuse to see where we are heading and what we are doing).

I only think that with Meyer, Pat Bowden, JON, Thursfield already in the mix we will look to a more genuine midfielder with our first pick. JON will replace Andy Kellaway as the third, rebounding defender in time. If we didn't have him we would be locks for Benjamin.

 

[Weaver]

the #49 draft pick while West Coast has the #50 draft pick, and you missed out on our 3rd round pick.

The joys of cutting, pasteing, reordering, re-editing and then doing it all again.

Would you be able to give a rough approximation of how Chris Schmidt's kicking (in combination with decision-making) at junior level compares with Tim Schmidt's kicking at junior level?

They are cousins apparantly (not brothers). Tim is more a genuine inside midfielder and centre square player I think. I still rate him highly and he would have played a lot of football at most other clubs.

Chris is a very good player. My criticism of his kicking is that he gets under some of them and they float a little. When he is kicking the ball to position or across the defensive 50 he is fine. When he has to kick a low, flat pass he can struggle. Lacks power in his kicking. Hardly the most stinging criticism of a player and surely something that can be worked on.

 

[Weaver]

Riewoldt at 33 . Remind me when hell froze over cos that would be more likely

My question for the Reiwoldt bandwaggon - what exactly does he offer that Will Gayfer or Heath Grundy didn't? Riewoldt is a slow key forward. AFL clubs don't want those guys.

I think a lot of people are falling victim to either - name recognition, 2nd Division syndrome, player popping up on telly syndrome, or Big Footy syndrome were people repeat other people's opinions so often that group think develops.

I have never been frightened of offering my opinion and wearing the consequences so here goes - I think Reiwoldt will be a poor option at 33 and could well go undrafted. Have any of the guys automatically putting him in top-10s seen his running style? I have seen dinghies on Port Phillip bay with less sideways movement and roll.

 

[SimonH]

Have any of the guys automatically putting him in top-10s seen his running style? I have seen dinghies on Port Phillip bay with less sideways movement and roll.

On a board where the ratio of people who think they are funny to people who are actually funny, is greater than 100:1, this is a rare one-liner that actually brought a smile to my face. Always a pleasure to read stuff Weaver writes for the expression alone.

 

[sinepari]

I have Riewoldt 2nd round, however I can see where Weaver is coming from. That said, I cannot even remotely envisage him not being drafted at all. WCE would definitely punt on him at 50 I think.

 

[LukeHodge15]

My question for the Reiwoldt bandwaggon - what exactly does he offer that Will Gayfer or Heath Grundy didn't? Riewoldt is a slow key forward. AFL clubs don't want those guys.

But since 16 clubs look to be proven wrong with Grundy.

I think a lot of people are falling victim to either - name recognition, 2nd Division syndrome, player popping up on telly syndrome, or Big Footy syndrome were people repeat other people's opinions so often that group think develops.

Agreed

I have never been frightened of offering my opinion and wearing the consequences so here goes - I think Reiwoldt will be a poor option at 33 and could well go undrafted. Have any of the guys automatically putting him in top-10s seen his running style? I have seen dinghies on Port Phillip bay with less sideways movement and roll.

LOL

U reckon Riewoldt is a 1 trick pony in the fact that he can mark the footy and thats it ???

Speed = Not quick
Endurance = ???
Marking = Close to best contested mark in this crop
Kicking = Average

 

[Weaver]

Marking = Close to best contested mark in this crop

A debate for the main board perhaps - but I think contested marking is a nice bonus skill in modern footy, a player can't make a career of it. AFL clubs simply refuse to kick to contests unless it is the very last resort.

Furthermore I would say that (in a junior) contested marking is a worry. A good junior should be leaving his fullback in his wake. He shouldn't need to take a lot of contested marks. He should be marking in his hands with his defender 3 metres away from him.

He is very footy smart, he reads the game superbly, makes good decisions, takes up dangerous positions and his kicking is OK for a CHF. As you say he is a very good contested mark. I just don't think AFL clubs will excuse the lack of athleticism these days.

 

[Gopies 2002]

A debate for the main board perhaps - but I think contested marking is a nice bonus skill in modern footy, a player can't make a career of it. AFL clubs simply refuse to kick to contests unless it is the very last resort.

Furthermore I would say that (in a junior) contested marking is a worry. A good junior should be leaving his fullback in his wake. He shouldn't need to take a lot of contested marks. He should be marking in his hands with his defender 3 metres away from him.

He is very footy smart, he reads the game superbly, makes good decisions, takes up dangerous positions and his kicking is OK for a CHF. As you say he is a very good contested mark. I just don't think AFL clubs will excuse the lack of athleticism these days.

One aspect you underestimate IMO Weaver is his ability to get to the right spots. He seems to have that instinctive ability to read the play and lead to the right areas. That is a skill many of the athletes do not and may never have. IMO this will allow him to get enough of the ball at AFL level to have an impact.
It will be interesting to see how the draft pans out for Reiwoldt.

PS - very enjoyable read - it a pleasure to read an opinion - not a rehash of other peoples opinions.

 

[jezza]

Weaver, with pick 58 you have Will Schofield, his description sounds reasonably similar to Thursfield, would that be suitable comparison to make?

 

[David_Brent]

My question for the Reiwoldt bandwaggon - what exactly does he offer that Will Gayfer or Heath Grundy didn't? Riewoldt is a slow key forward. AFL clubs don't want those guys.

I think a lot of people are falling victim to either - name recognition, 2nd Division syndrome, player popping up on telly syndrome, or Big Footy syndrome were people repeat other people's opinions so often that group think develops.

I have never been frightened of offering my opinion and wearing the consequences so here goes - I think Reiwoldt will be a poor option at 33 and could well go undrafted. Have any of the guys automatically putting him in top-10s seen his running style? I have seen dinghies on Port Phillip bay with less sideways movement and roll.

I think you will find that Riewoldts 20m sprint time was basically the same as Gumbleton and McKenszie's (or within .01).

 

[GRANGE_GSM]

I think you will find that Riewoldts 20m sprint time was basically the same as Gumbleton and McKenszie's (or within .01).

yeh thats all well and good but nothing beats geniune engine speed in a game..i think what weaver is meaning is explosive power?.. the ability to jump/accelerate,turn or side step...plus what he is eaning the ability to be able to leave your defender behinfd with his pants down.we dont see that from reiwoldt,what we see is contested makring with ground level ball winning ability!...mckenzie/gumbleton have all those qualities that cant be tested at a camp!

 

[David_Brent]

yeh thats all well and good but nothing beats geniune engine speed in a game..i think what weaver is meaning is explosive power?.. the ability to jump/accelerate,turn or side step...plus what he is eaning the ability to be able to leave your defender behinfd with his pants down.we dont see that from reiwoldt,what we see is contested makring with ground level ball winning ability!...mckenzie/gumbleton have all those qualities that cant be tested at a camp!

I'm confused,

1. 20m sprint does test explosive power

2. Riewoldt is just as good on the ground as Gumbleton and McKenszie. And is as good contested mark.

 

[scooter600x]

I'm confused,

1. 20m sprint does test explosive power

2. Riewoldt is just as good on the ground as Gumbleton and McKenszie. And is as good contested mark.

Peter Street has a sub 3 sec 20m

What happens on the ground is different to what happens in testing

 

[David_Brent]

Peter Street has a sub 3 sec 20m

What happens on the ground is different to what happens in testing

Cooney isnt even sub 3 secs.

I think you are making that up.

 

[CharlieG]

As good as you've made Benjamin sound, I'd like to hope (I don't necessarily think though) that the Swans would go with a KPP at 15. McKenzie, N Brown and Austin appear to be the ones in that ball park. Which do you think would be most likely?

Also, you've missed Sydney's pick 65. Would like to know who you'd predict there. That might be where we look for a flanker that we can park in Canberra for two years.

 

[scooter600x]

Cooney isnt even sub 3 secs.

I think you are making that up.

Eade said that when he was with Hawthorn he and Geoff Ablett were the only two on the list who could do a sub 3 sec 20m. He said the Dogs team now has over 20 blokes that can do it.

Cooney would definately be one of them but I believe Street managed it as well (only had to take a few steps, after all).