Welcome Welcome to Hawthorn: Josh Ward. Extends to 2025!

[A Diakos]

His issue has been confidence in himself which meant he wasn’t able to showcase his talent. Hopefully he continues to do this and try improve self confidence.


He creates the space, he’s strong enough and his pace, especially burst is really good.


I’ve watched VFL for a while now and every game Ward has played, started in one of his first where he went and dominated in the wet against a GWS outfit at Sydney Showgrounds.

His inside game which I would say is a mix of, tackling and defensive pressure, ability around congestion, cleanliness and movement through traffic, accumulation and positioning to get contested football, the intent and lastly craft of stoppages/centre bounces.

An inside game, or contested side is not directly correlated with clearance or craft which is what he is down at the VFL level working on, because most of football is contest and post clearance.

Every part of this I’d say he is pretty strong at, cleanliness, movement and burst through traffic, accumulating and positioning to get contested ground balls post clearance etc are strengths. Some he’s working on through just intent, backing himself in, tackling pressure etc (clearly a superb two way runner).

His main problem as I stated as apart of an “inside game” isn’t a physical or ability issue. It’s simply backing himself in, but the main component he’s working on is his stoppage and centre bounce craft, which is reading the tap, the ball, his man, cues, positioning, body work etc.

His inside game is average at AFL level because it’s inconsistent, has shown his capacity to be good and also poor in this area which is why he moved down. He is still clearly an AFL standard player who is far too good for VFL football and this comes with his inside game, which is vastly superior to VFL players. Not entirely a big surprise.

Again there’s a difference between what people have been bagging him for or saying he’s poor at with his overall inside and contested game, even suggesting pace is an issue…

Has been made clear and even more so watching him not just from coaches mouths his work in progress is his ‘CRAFT’ as an inside midfielder which is ‘STOPPAGE OR CENTRE BOUNCE CRAFT’ which is not directly associated with his ability in a contest, which happens a lot in footy and hawthorn are first at in the league, post clearance. This would be the same for Connor MacDonald, hence him rarely if ever getting inside time.

“not super quick but not slow”

He is a pretty quick player with a strong burst. He has good vision, cleanliness, hand and foot skills mixed with a strong work ethic, endurance base and leadership. He has a bucket load of talent and he’s down there working on something which will click eventually, has progressed well over his short stint at VFL level.

There’s plenty supporters wouldn’t see or know about players but if you look at his game like anyone, you will always see clear strengths, weaknesses which in better terminology are things to improve.

He has clear strengths has listed above and will continue to develop his other areas, which is his overall craft, stoppage and centre bounce craft mentioned by coaches, consistency of high production, application, self belief/confidence to back in the skill sets of players, playing to strengths and developing physically to get the perfect body for his personal performance.

Some interesting insights

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I disagree with the idea that he can only be an inside midfielder at AFL level. He played as a wingman in his underage TAC year and he excelled there, before he spent more time as a legitimate midfielder in his draft year.

Obviously playing seniors is a different game and all, but my point is it's not a completely foreign position for him. He's also demonstrated in his first season that he could play on the wing and an outside midfielder. The game he played against WCE near the end of his first season was excellent, never mind as a first year player.

The main issue seems to simply be confidence. It seems like he was second guessing himself and playing like something is weighing him down.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I disagree with the idea that he can only be an inside midfielder at AFL level. He played as a wingman in his underage TAC year and he excelled there, before he spent more time as a legitimate midfielder in his draft year.

He's demonstrated in his first season that he could play on the wing and an outside midfielder. The game he played against WCE near the end of his first season was excellent, never mind as a first year player.

The main issue seems to simply be confidence. It seems like he was second guessing himself and playing like something is weighing him down.

Yeah also spot on with this, he seems like he focuses too much on structure and doesn’t naturally let his game play out how he wants with how extremely talented he is. Has demonstrated an ability to play inside and outside, as a midfielder, winger and could even play high half forward which is similar to the wing.

BOLDED is the key part here, I really want him to succeed because he could geninenly be another top liner and possibly be the pick of the bunch.

 

[The Chad and I]

Jordan Lewis

Jordan Lewis

Age

38

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

310.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

5star

was an inside mid and spent much of his time playing as a link-up player and flanker.
However we use Ward, he just needs to settle into a role and he will be just fine.
No need to demand him to be some mythical perfectly rounded footballer who can do it all.

 

[wizzard400]

This whole time I’ve been thinking he’s meant to be an outside speed midfielder yet I come into this thread and people are talking about him playing on the inside? I’m so confused…

 

[eldorado]

The main issue seems to simply be confidence. It seems like he was second guessing himself and playing like something is weighing him down.

This seems to be EXACTLY it.

He is playing so far within himself; safe option first rather than a break open option, dispose the ball rather than take on the man.

I don't know if they've given him licence to be more daring and attacking, and he's not taking it up...or if they've told him to just do the 'meat and potatoes' stuff until he gets confidence

 

[eldorado]

This whole time I’ve been thinking he’s meant to be an outside speed midfielder yet I come into this thread and people are talking about him playing on the inside? I’m so confused…

He's a hybrid, but I would have have him 60/40 inside/outside.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Jordan Lewis was an inside mid and spent much of his time playing as a link-up player and flanker.
However we use Ward, he just needs to settle into a role and he will be just fine.
No need to demand him to be some mythical perfectly rounded footballer who can do it all.

No one really is, even Daicos, Ablett, Bont and others who come up as perfect players, have weaknesses or improvements.

 

[flinchfree]

...............
At this stage, Hustwaite looks a better proposition, as does Finn. Sam loves Ward, and knows his potential, but he'll never gift games, and you'd hope Finn is at the front of the queue at this stage (for a midfield berth)
.

Just. Wow.

 

[Ka Norkers]

lols.
Hawks success over the past 7 weeks, in the coaches own words, and many players interviewed own words, is due to a significant increase in pressure on the ball carrier, and contested ball. Finn is the length of the Flemington straight ahead of Josh in that category at the moment, that is a simple, statistical fact. Yep, I'd hope that will change over the next year or two as Josh gets up to speed on that (even the BHH coach mentions that time after time) but at the moment there is daylight between the two. Mitchell wants ruthless competitors, and at this infant stage of his career, Josh ain't one of those.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

lols.
Hawks success over the past 7 weeks, in the coaches own words, and many players interviewed own words, is due to a significant increase in pressure on the ball carrier, and contested ball. Finn is the length of the Flemington straight ahead of Josh in that category at the moment, that is a simple, statistical fact. Yep, I'd hope that will change over the next year or two as Josh gets up to speed on that (even the BHH coach mentions that time after time) but at the moment there is daylight between the two. Mitchell wants ruthless competitors, and at this infant stage of his career, Josh ain't one of those.

Lmao

Ward is a competitor, thinking otherwise is just

Maginness is a completely different type of player, he would only dream to have the class Ward possesses.

 

[Ka Norkers]

LMAO, well then, this fierce and classy competitor shows what an idiot Sam Mitchell is, what the hell is he doing playing for Box Hill? Clearly nothing wrong with his game, he's just playing down there for shits and giggles. Gawd.

 

[Rocket72]

His issue has been confidence in himself which meant he wasn’t able to showcase his talent. Hopefully he continues to do this and try improve self confidence.


He creates the space, he’s strong enough and his pace, especially burst is really good.


I’ve watched VFL for a while now and every game Ward has played, started in one of his first where he went and dominated in the wet against a GWS outfit at Sydney Showgrounds.

His inside game which I would say is a mix of, tackling and defensive pressure, ability around congestion, cleanliness and movement through traffic, accumulation and positioning to get contested football, the intent and lastly craft of stoppages/centre bounces.

An inside game, or contested side is not directly correlated with clearance or craft which is what he is down at the VFL level working on, because most of football is contest and post clearance.

Every part of this I’d say he is pretty strong at, cleanliness, movement and burst through traffic, accumulating and positioning to get contested ground balls post clearance etc are strengths. Some he’s working on through just intent, backing himself in, tackling pressure etc (clearly a superb two way runner).

His main problem as I stated as apart of an “inside game” isn’t a physical or ability issue. It’s simply backing himself in, but the main component he’s working on is his stoppage and centre bounce craft, which is reading the tap, the ball, his man, cues, positioning, body work etc.

His inside game is average at AFL level because it’s inconsistent, has shown his capacity to be good and also poor in this area which is why he moved down. He is still clearly an AFL standard player who is far too good for VFL football and this comes with his inside game, which is vastly superior to VFL players. Not entirely a big surprise.

Again there’s a difference between what people have been bagging him for or saying he’s poor at with his overall inside and contested game, even suggesting pace is an issue…

Has been made clear and even more so watching him not just from coaches mouths his work in progress is his ‘CRAFT’ as an inside midfielder which is ‘STOPPAGE OR CENTRE BOUNCE CRAFT’ which is not directly associated with his ability in a contest, which happens a lot in footy and hawthorn are first at in the league, post clearance. This would be the same for Connor MacDonald, hence him rarely if ever getting inside time.

“not super quick but not slow”

He is a pretty quick player with a strong burst. He has good vision, cleanliness, hand and foot skills mixed with a strong work ethic, endurance base and leadership. He has a bucket load of talent and he’s down there working on something which will click eventually, has progressed well over his short stint at VFL level.

There’s plenty supporters wouldn’t see or know about players but if you look at his game like anyone, you will always see clear strengths, weaknesses which in better terminology are things to improve.

He has clear strengths as listed above and will continue to develop his other areas, which is his overall craft, stoppage and centre bounce craft mentioned by coaches, consistency of high production, application, self belief/confidence to back in the skill sets of players, playing to strengths and developing physically to get the perfect body for his personal performance.

The two glaring issues I see are (1) judgement and (2) tackling. Some of your insights made me think that some of what I saw as poor judgement might just be over-confidence, which is not as bad as poor judgement. Some of the times he was demanding the ball, there were three opponents almost on top of him. Some of the passes he took on had massive risk with little gain. I'm more hopefuly that he can sort overconfidence out.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

The two glaring issues I see are (1) judgement and (2) tackling. Some of your insights made me think that some of what I saw as poor judgement might just be over-confidence, which is not as bad as poor judgement. Some of the times he was demanding the ball, there were three opponents almost on top of him. Some of the passes he took on had massive risk with little gain. I'm more hopefuly that he can sort overconfidence out.

He has a super weird issue where at VFL level he looks very good because he’s confident and knows he’s better than them, same at u18s but goes into his shell at AFL level. Albeit he is as you said overconfident sometimes with demanding it when he has people on him, partially because he’s shown an ability to break a tackle and burst. Plus I don’t mind going for hard kicks, he’s an elite ball user.

His main issues are a) stoppage craft b) confidence at afl level c) consistency (not a weaknesses but a focus). d) tackling isn’t a weakness but a focus also.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

LMAO, well then, this fierce and classy competitor shows what an idiot Sam Mitchell is, what the hell is he doing playing for Box Hill? Clearly nothing wrong with his game, he's just playing down there for shits and giggles. Gawd.

He’s playing down there to work on things you didn’t mention, as said a thousand times before, his stoppage craft being the main point.

 

[I got the outside word]

LMAO, well then, this fierce and classy competitor shows what an idiot Sam Mitchell is, what the hell is he doing playing for Box Hill? Clearly nothing wrong with his game, he's just playing down there for shits and giggles. Gawd.

That other fierce competitor that you think has him covered is playing down there with him after how many pre-seasons on the list? He must be having a laugh too I guess.

 

[BobHawk]

Regardless of what one may think of Ward's game, it is pretty obvious that the tackling, chasing and pressure has gone up a fair notch with the team in recent weeks. This change has been very noticeable to me and looking at Connor McDonald as, what might be considered a peer, I thought he was very involved in doing these things on Saturday which certainly added to his game. Great to see. So, I think that will be a non-negotiable for Josh Ward to make his way back into the team. Similarly, I think players that aren't performing to the required standard will be dropped.

 

[Nick the Pig]

Right now Ward is likely next mid back in if we have any injury. It's not like he is miles off as some seem to think.

It's really only our fantastic form over the last month which has continued to keep him out. We are rewarding a winning team. It's just timing.

 

[Rocket72]

He has a super weird issue where at VFL level he looks very good because he’s confident and knows he’s better than them, same at u18s but goes into his shell at AFL level. Albeit he is as you said overconfident sometimes with demanding it when he has people on him, partially because he’s shown an ability to break a tackle and burst. Plus I don’t mind going for hard kicks, he’s an elite ball user.

His main issues are a) stoppage craft b) confidence at afl level c) consistency (not a weaknesses but a focus). d) tackling isn’t a weakness but a focus also.

I disagree on the tackling, he is not danagerous in that he can't pin an arm and he can't lock the ball in. It's a real liability playing in the middle and the main reason he is preferred on the wing.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I disagree on the tackling, he is not danagerous in that he can't pin an arm and he can't lock the ball in. It's a real liability playing in the middle and the main reason he is preferred on the wing.

I think it’s the opposite. He has a good technique but has struggled with his intensity and strength. The latter improved heavily he just needs consistent high intensity as he does at VFL level. His tackling has been strong.

 

[Rocket72]

I think it’s the opposite. He has a good technique but has struggled with his intensity and strength. The latter improved heavily he just needs consistent high intensity as he does at VFL level. His tackling has been strong.

We will have to disagree on this one point. He was bumped from centre bounces because his opponent was coming out the front way too often. For a 'strong tackler', that would not be happening.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

We will have to disagree on this one point. He was bumped from centre bounces because his opponent was coming out the front way too often. For a 'strong tackler', that would not be happening.

You missed my point.

He has shown an ability to be a strong tackler over his VFL stint which has come with more confidence, intent and a physical development.

His technique tackling wise is good, his problem aligned with intent and strength, which have been improvements.

He had rarely been given midfield time, he was simply pushed out because he was playing a good enough role on the wing whilst he developed also.

 

[Ka Norkers]

stoppage craft?? lol
yes, Yabbie would have been much more blunt than that. Still, that's the modern cuddly way.
I will admit I am biased, you probably heard my groans from 8,000kms away on draft night when for some completely idiotic reason we didn't pick Jye Amiss. Still, I guess we didn't need any key forwards lol.
I really hope Josh Ward makes it, there is no doubt he is incredibly skilled and I'd imagine a fantastically hard worker, but geez I wish the kid would get some mongrel in him. He's clearly super-smart, that can be counter-productive as an AFL player, but he's also clearly very nice.
always remember Matthew Liptak, a similar player to Ward. Neil Curley and Malcolm Blight almost had to beat him up to get a bit of mongrel in the now orthopedic surgeon. It worked, and the kid ended up a star and B and F winner for the Crows.
Hopefully Josh can do the same.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

stoppage craft?? lol
yes, Yabbie would have been much more blunt than that. Still, that's the modern cuddly way.
I will admit I am biased, you probably heard my groans from 8,000kms away on draft night when for some completely idiotic reason we didn't pick Jye Amiss. Still, I guess we didn't need any key forwards lol.
I really hope Josh Ward makes it, there is no doubt he is incredibly skilled and I'd imagine a fantastically hard worker, but geez I wish the kid would get some mongrel in him. He's clearly super-smart, that can be counter-productive as an AFL player, but he's also clearly very nice.
always remember Matthew Liptak, a similar player to Ward. Neil Curley and Malcolm Blight almost had to beat him up to get a bit of mongrel in the now orthopedic surgeon. It worked, and the kid ended up a star and B and F winner for the Crows.
Hopefully Josh can do the same.

Yes stoppage craft, the key metric mentioned by coaches over the last month and what has be clear by watching.

Even worse that you are unable to watch footy in person, Hawthorn footy that is, and Josh in this case. You learn so much.

Jye Amiss is a solid key forward but at the time we were crying out for midfield talent and went the best available, it wouldn’t change and Ward is a super talent, Dear has shown enough to suggest he’ll make it and Lewis is a gun. Key forwards aren’t of distress or need.

I do agree, he does play within himself and his game on the weekend at VFL level was the best I’ve seen him around the contest and being able to back himself in, confidence and intent. But it’s clear it’s a confidence thing once you realise his VFL and u18 footy show such elite talents.

He is probably the smartest player in the league outside of footy, think it’s a double degree and another separate degree, so three degrees + a 99+ ATAR.

Being “nice” is always brought up by Sam, they mentioned it that there’s times to be nice, but most of the time for footy being a campaigner is how you need to be, for the opposition and even teammates at times. Don’t think it’s a big issue.

I am sure someone will, and Ward himself would be aware, as mentioned by you, and proven by others. He’s an incredibly hard worker, one of the hardest workers at the club. He’s super diligent and just wants to use every tool to get the most out of himself. Which is a great trait to have.

I do think he overthinks things and goes to in-depth about his own football, I do it myself so I can see the similarities. It’s about simplifying and playing off instincts which will leave him in a better position and place, or having small focuses.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Watching a different game are we??

He was well above Maginness for example, as good as Chad was he was good but Ward was simply dominant. Barely missed a kick.

I wish player disposals were easy to access for VFL
because there was a play through the middle which demonstrated how much superior Ward is to the rest of the VFL competition standard. Got the hospital handball, turns into an opponent, shrugs him off, explodes forward, and handballs off for a shot on goal.

His class with ball in hand, confidence growing to grab it and burst away which he does super well, he’s quick and explosive and ability to hit targets either side is class. Had a play where he was running on his wrong side and hit a 20m snap on his right to a bloke inbetween a bunch of opposition defenders. His vision, class, ball use and cleanliness is next level and his toughness, burst and other abilities that come with him backing his clear talent are taking shape. I love watching the bloke play footy.

View attachment RPReplay_Final1717565546 2.mp4
Different POV to where I saw it on stream but baseline coming through.