West Coast v Carlton semi final

[Eagle87]

this shows how naive west coast supporters are !

the defence that played against you in round 14 was minus laidler and duigan, jammo went down in the first quarter hendo was playing up forward back then, austin was playing first game in 2 years and touhy was playing his 3rd or 4th game , the back line is so much better now its ridiculous!
the only thing about westcoast that worrys me is the ruck but bring in hampson and we should do fine

We are naive because we believe we will beat you?

Both teams will have some changes from the earlier meeting. In addition, it will be played in Perth instead of Melbourne. Carlton fans naively think that helps them based on some wins against abject WA sides in the last couple of years ...

Or is it only naive when WC fans come up with reasons we might win, not Blues fans?

FWIW, its my view that "interstaters" tend to have a much better idea about Vic sides than vice versa, primarily because we get subjected to the Vic-centric media like you do ....

We are aware the the Blues weren't at their best in Round 14, we simply did what was required and didn't play our best either ...

 

[FRUMPY]

Didn't he get moved to Kennedy after Jamison went down? maybee i'm thinking of someone else.

Yeah you may be right, but he is playing ALOT better now than he was then. No doubt our team structure is better than when we played you last time.

Add Laidler (3rd Tall), Duigan (4th Tall), Robinson (tough inside player), Joseph (best small defender/tagger), Ohailpin (Full Forward) a fit Jamison and Henderson playing great we have alot stronger structure.

In the end it will come down to midfield and both a playing prety well. I think home ground advantage will be the difference in the end (and probably our continued inaccurate goal kicking)

 

[HARKER]

WTF does any of that have to do with my post or the post I was responding to?

How much have you had to drink tonight?
I'm on my 5th. Heineken, so don't question my reasoning for anything right now.

Don't worry about it Eagle '87. We just speak a different language.
We can't help that.

 

[BrandonG]

Didn't he get moved to Kennedy after Jamison went down? maybee i'm thinking of someone else.

he could have i dont have the tape to go back and look , but even so would have been his first experience as a key permanent back

 

[yibbida]

Whether you have an underdone Kreuzer, an in-form Warnock, or a Hampson pushing for selection, you are going up against Cox and Naitanui, indisputably the best ruck combination in 2011.

I don't second the arrogance from some Eagles fans here though re: outcome of Saturday night. It will not be easy, mark my words.

What about an in-form Warnock and Hampson against Cox with a bad back and NicNat barely able to jump?

 

[Forward Press]

What about an in-form Warnock and Hampson against Cox with a bad back and NicNat barely able to jump?

Cox and Naitanui have played through injuries for all of this season. Cox to a lesser extent.

 

[jonoman89]

Funnily enough so would we
So not only do you have to create a 5 goal turnaround from last game, you also have to add to that playing us on our ground of which I think we'd have at least another 4 goals advantage, seeing as we have played the ground more than ONCE this year



Your saying this on the ONE game you have played there all year (against Fremantle), or when you beat our wooden spoon side last year (wasnt a convincing win)

Really?

You've won 4 of your last 5. The wins start with the one against Freo a few weeks ago, when they were shit and they finished 11th.

Your other 3 wins were against the WC wooden spooners last year, the 14th placed Freo in 2009 and a 15th placed WC in 2008.

Your loss in that run was against the only decent side you played in that period - the 2010 Dockers.

So wins v 14th, 11th, 15th & 16th!

Before that, you lost 11 in a row between 2001 and 2008! 11!!! Thats 11 in case I wasn't clear enough

Not sure I'd be claiming Subi as a fav ground on those stats.

I never realised it was frowned upon to believe in my football club. I'll change my tack:

We're terrible at subi. If Judd plays badly we will lose by 100+ pts. We have no good talls whatsoever. We are downhill skiers. We cheat and tank.

Does that make you blokes feel better?

 

[jonoman89]

4 out of 5 wins at subi over the last few years is still a good track record, regardless of opposition. A trip to Perth is always difficult. How often do you see WCE and Freo dropping games in Melbourne, even when they're up and about? The trip and the home ground advantage cannot be under estimated, particularly for Melbourne based clubs who don't travel as much.

We'll be a dramatically different side this week compared to last time we met.

I don't necessarily think we'll win, but i think we have a good chance.

 

[happy_eagle]

Carlton have failed to explain or prove why Subiaco is a better ground for them than it is for us

Do they have a good/relevant record there: No
Do we have a good/relevant record there: Yes
Does it suit a forward press: Yes
Do we have a forward press: Yes

By all means back your club (infact you'd be soft if you didnt) but try to present some solid arguments for
All the eagles fans are doing in this thread, is pointing out where some of the arguments are flawed (in regards to record, and ground size)

 

[jonoman89]

Good record? Yes, 4 out 5 is alright i'd say. Every club has a bloody forward press...

 

[Eagle87]

I never realised it was frowned upon to believe in my football club. I'll change my tack:

We're terrible at subi. If Judd plays badly we will lose by 100+ pts. We have no good talls whatsoever. We are downhill skiers. We cheat and tank.

Does that make you blokes feel better?

Mate, it was you who pinned your hopes on your great record at Subi. You have won 4 of your last 16!

Not saying don't believe in your team but if your form at Subi is what you are pinning your hopes on then you're hope is baseless. Without base.

4 wins against 11th, 14th, 15th and 16th.

Your second paragraph is simply a diversion from having had your pants pulled down, so to speak.

I felt fine before your post, thanks for asking, I just feel it necessary to correct errant logic, you clearly prefer flawed arguments buttressed by silliness .. does that make you feel better?

 

[BLUES9898]

Carlton have failed to explain or prove why Subiaco is a better ground for them than it is for us

Do they have a good/relevant record there: No
Do we have a good/relevant record there: Yes
Does it suit a forward press: Yes
Do we have a forward press: Yes

By all means back your club (infact you'd be soft if you didnt) but try to present some solid arguments for
All the eagles fans are doing in this thread, is pointing out where some of the arguments are flawed (in regards to record, and ground size)

I agree 4/5 and a loss under a goal is terrible we shouldn't turn up

 

[Eagle87]

Good record? Yes, 4 out 5 is alright i'd say. Every club has a bloody forward press...

So you take no account of the quality of the opponent?

You've played 1 decent WA side in that run, 2010 Dockers, you lost. You played another decent WA side away from Subi this year. You lost. You have beaten no side in the Top 4 this year. Lost all of them.

There is a trend developing there against decent sides, no?

 

[Eagle87]

I agree 4/5 and a loss under a goal is terrible we shouldn't turn up

You guys love resorting to silly sarcasm don't you.

Its 4 wins against shit sides. You've beaten no-one. The previous 11 games were all losses.... so its 4-12 ....

"But, but, but ... we are a different team now from when we lost the 11" i hear you say ...

Apparently being a "different team" only applies as a defence and is of no consequence in questioning the merit of your record ...

Think about it ...

I'm not saying you can't win, just saying that your recent record at Subi is meaningless given the nature of your opponents...

 

[jonoman89]

Your second paragraph is simply a diversion from having had your pants pulled down, so to speak.

No, it's just me highlighting how silly some of you blokes are when you are faced with opposition supporters who think they *might* be in with a crack this week.

We have won 4/5 at Subi. Fact. 4 out 5 is a good record, regardless of the opponent's quality. You can only play the team in front of you.

We have played Subi better than other stadiums since 2008. Fact.

Why are your panties in such a twist? If you're so confident why do you worry about the bogus stats Carlton supporters are supposedly raising? I'm not suggesting for one minute we should be, or are, favourites for this match.

But we do have a few things to be confident about. That's all we're highlighting.

The players themselves even say they like playing at Subi.

 

[Eagle87]

No, it's just me highlighting how silly some of you blokes are when you are faced with opposition supporters who think they *might* be in with a crack this week.

We have won 4/5 at Subi. Fact. 4 out 5 is a good record, regardless of the opponent's quality. You can only play the team in front of you.

We have played Subi better than other stadiums since 2008. Fact.

Why are your panties in such a twist? If you're so confident why do you worry about the bogus stats Carlton supporters are supposedly raising? I'm not suggesting for one minute we should be, or are, favourites for this match.

But we do have a few things to be confident about. That's all we're highlighting.

The players themselves even say they like playing at Subi.

My panties aren't in a twist. I am simply correcting this "group think" from Blues fans that they have a good record at Subi. You actually have a poor record, except for a blip over a couple of seasons when you played abjectly shit sides ....

West Coast players will tell you they love playing at the G ... doesn't change much does it?

Its not about worry, its not about much at all, except correcting an assertion that you guys are some sort of Subi juggernaut ...

It is a ground that can reward fast, hard running sides, that play well in space against poor teams ....

I'd prefer to focus on the real issues this weekend rather than fanciful notions of our press not working here or your "stellar" record.

You can only win this week if your midfield gets well on top. Which it might. If its 50:50 in the middle, we will win. If its anything more than 50:50 in our favour, we will win well ..

Its on Judd and Murphy IMO ....

 

[jerry_did]

I don't think West Coast are any better than Carlton, at all.

I actually think the teams are as even as they come - regardless of West Coast beating Carlton this year. Forget every excuse any Carlton supporter has given for that day - Losing Jamison etc etc - we were outplayed and beaten by the better team on the day. We were also outcoached that afternoon.

Saturday night has nothing to do with who is 'better' or the allegedly not so wide open, wide open spaces of Subi.

It's all in the head.

While many people seem to think the pressure is off Carlton now, internally the pressure just went up a level. Judd is going back to his ex team, he will want to win this more than any other game he has played at Carlton. The president, the board and the supporters now want to see us in a prelim and even a grand final - the players will be thinking nothing short of a premiership. With 2/3 finals into most of the boys now, infront of big home crowds AND 2 away crowds - they will have grown somewhat accustomed to what it takes out there.

West Coast have lost their first final, gallantly. But now they return home with the prospect of being knocked out in straight sets. A home crowd wanting blood after being expectant of success they have faced a few lean years now after 3 premierships in 20 odd years they aren't used to whats been going on - just like the Blues supporters.
The pressure will be right on West Coast as well - plenty of finals inexperience in the team but still a few older heads in important places on the ground to steady the nerves of those around them.

This game is ALL about who handles the pressure and who is mentally switched on to the absolute maximum. There is nothing between them on paper - each team has strengths and weaknesses which negate eachother IMO.

who can handle the pressure will tell in the final result

 

[mHmmm]

Forget every excuse any Carlton supporter has given for that day - Losing Jamison etc etc - we were outplayed and beaten by the better team. We were also outcoached that afternoon.

Yep, I concur.

 

[BLUES9898]

You guys love resorting to silly sarcasm don't you.

Its 4 wins against shit sides. You've beaten no-one. The previous 11 games were all losses.... so its 4-12 ....

"But, but, but ... we are a different team now from when we lost the 11" i hear you say ...

Apparently being a "different team" only applies as a defence and is of no consequence in questioning the merit of your record ...

Think about it ...

I'm not saying you can't win, just saying that your recent record at Subi is meaningless given the nature of your opponents...

but you must not forget though that we were a mid range side in 2008 where we had won 2 out of 2 in perth

but what it worth will be a great game though

 

[Blue and Silver]

You know what works well against a forward press. Strong contested ball winning and quick, precise ball movement. Shame Carlton hasn't demonstrated that recently

 

[Eagle87]

but you must not forget though that we were a mid range side in 2008 where we had won 2 out of 2 in perth

but what it worth will be a great game though

In the game v West Coast in 2008, the following players played for WC in that game:

Armstrong
Braun
Fletcher
Graham
Jones
Jones
McKinley
McNamara
Stenglein
Wirrpanda

Carlton had:

Browne
Cloke
Ellard
Fev
Fisher
Grigg
Russell
Wiggins
Waite
Kreuzer
Stevens (who got the 3 Brownlow votes)

How many of the blokes on those lists will be playing this week?

Kind of meaningless win in the context of this game surely?

 

[BigVic]

Should be a cracker and West Coast by 12 points IMO

 

[kaiserchief13]

You know what works well against a forward press. Strong contested ball winning and quick, precise ball movement. Shame Carlton hasn't demonstrated that recently

Stop trying to talk about AFL you have no idea.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22223969&postcount=11

 

[Raymond Rougeau]

Wc by 60 points Carlton don't have good key matchups for wc bigs... Will get ugly and the juddernought will wish he never went back to subi...

 

[Eagle87]

You know what works well against a forward press. Strong contested ball winning and quick, precise ball movement. Shame Carlton hasn't demonstrated that recently

Fair point. They certainly looked stellar in this area against the Saints, the Hawks ... oh wait ....