What's going on with Carlton's list

[biggiemediums]

What made it really bad for us was that we lost every single tall player on out list, even the rookie listed players went down and all long term. Our back up backups got injured, one even got cancer. I'm not saying we played with heart or what ever but Rats really got screwed over this year.

Rats was so unfairly kicked out it's not funny. Nothing he could have done!

 

[slashin_velvet]

Rats was so unfairly kicked out it's not funny. Nothing he could have done!

Disagree with this. He was a good coach, but not good enough to get the players to buy into his game plan. Similar to what another poster is saying about charater/attitude, to many players on our list were playing for themselves and not the team.

Champion Team vs Team of Champions....etc

 

[Wayne Arnold]

That ascribes to the theory that only new players can make our list better and bat deeper. Which simply isn't true, for any list.

The depth on show this year was average because the majority of them were playing their first few couple of games. Bell, Casboult, Mitchell, McCarthy, Bootsma, McInnes and Dale all played their first games this season.

How many debutants did Collingwood and WCE have?

Not to mention we have a pretty handy coach on board who knows a thing or two. But don't worry, Carlton is obviously incapable of improving because we didn't trade for the sake of it...

Off the top of my head Collingwood debuted Seedsman, Paine, Yagmoor, Ugle, Elliot, Williams and Mooney. Fairly comparable with what you listed. Every team looks to improve from within. Carlton's depth was tested last year and failed miserably. I would suggest if Carlton have significant injuries again next season they will struggle. Collingwood on the other hand, don't bitch and moan about injuries, we just get on with winning and don't make excuses. Enjoy the boundary line next year.

 

[the_interloper]

Disagree with this. He was a good coach, but not good enough to get the players to buy into his game plan. Similar to what another poster is saying about charater/attitude, to many players on our list were playing for themselves and not the team.

Champion Team vs Team of Champions....etc

That's the Carlton culture though pretty much, that's why Judd fits in so well!

 

[Sector 7G]

You have no idea.

OK you tell me why someone who is 204cm can't play in the ruck ahead of Dawes or Wood?

The way FF was taking him up he was the best 9 gamer ever.

 

[Silvagnis]

Off the top of my head Collingwood debuted Seedsman, Paine, Yagmoor, Ugle, Elliot, Williams and Mooney. Fairly comparable with what you listed. Every team looks to improve from within. Carlton's depth was tested last year and failed miserably. I would suggest if Carlton have significant injuries again next season they will struggle. Collingwood on the other hand, don't bitch and moan about injuries, we just get on with winning and don't make excuses. Enjoy the boundary line next year.

Stunning logic and troll. Every side will struggle if they have significant injuries. Look at WC in 2010 who rebounded from a wooden spoon to make the finals. Adelaide finished below Carlton in 2011 before a change of coach revitalised their list.

Our depth must be improving after we traded Russell to Collingwood for pick 71. Enjoy him trying to match up on forwards who aren't one paced like Johnson and O'keefe.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

Collingwood and West Coast both had signigicant injuries in 2012 and finished fourth and fifth (as I've already noted). Likewise Hawthorn in 2011. Carlton failed to make the eight. But of course, as will probably be posted, your injuries were far more significant and numerous and you were one kick away from a prelim in 2011. Hence, I can understand your optimism. The post I responded to questioned Collingwood's injuries and how many players made their debut. Looks like it was a similar number to Carlton (although Carlton did debut two players in round 23 when your season was shot). Thanks for reminding me, you guys did get involved in trade week. Enjoy pick 71. Also landed some big names in the coaching department, I'm sure Brad Green was first choice. Lucky you guys got in first and beat other clubs from signing him. Maybe he can instill some hardness into Gibbs' game.

 

[slashin_velvet]

That's the Carlton culture though pretty much, that's why Judd fits in so well!

I guess its still better than Richmond's culture, that's why Spudds fit in so well!

 

[ipswichpies]

Stunning logic and troll. Every side will struggle if they have significant injuries. Look at WC in 2010 who rebounded from a wooden spoon to make the finals. Adelaide finished below Carlton in 2011 before a change of coach revitalised their list.

Our depth must be improving after we traded Russell to Collingwood for pick 71. Enjoy him trying to match up on forwards who aren't one paced like Johnson and O'keefe.

We do not know if we can turn Russell around formwise but we certainly did with Luke Ball who would have strolled into the Saints team on 2010 or 2011 form and we may just do the same with Russell he only cost pick 71 and 2 seasons back he finished 2nd in your best and fairest.

Young Lynch and Russell and the others we are going to draft in will all be going on our pre season training camps and we will know more about them after that but do not forget we had Krak back from a Knee reco within 6 months and he looked pretty good,moving well and kicking well so just do not be surprised if Russell turns out a little better than you are hoping for.

 

[laminex]

That's the Carlton culture though pretty much, that's why Judd fits in so well!

Whats Richmond's culture?

 

[slashin_velvet]

Whats Richmond's culture?

Losing (oh and 5 year rebuilding plans every 2-3 years)

 

[laminex]

Off the top of my head Collingwood debuted Seedsman, Paine, Yagmoor, Ugle, Elliot, Williams and Mooney. Fairly comparable with what you listed. Every team looks to improve from within. Carlton's depth was tested last year and failed miserably. I would suggest if Carlton have significant injuries again next season they will struggle. Collingwood on the other hand, don't bitch and moan about injuries, we just get on with winning and don't make excuses. Enjoy the boundary line next year.

LOL what did you win??

Games against us NO

The Flag no

So what did you win??

Sydney won everyone else lost.

 

[teknodeejay]

We do not know if we can turn Russell around formwise

I have a feeling Russell could be quite a handy addition. He's had two very ordinary years and this year he didn't look interested at all... a fresh coat of black and white paint and if he gets back to 2010... handy indeed.

 

[Gone Critical]

I have a feeling Russell could be quite a handy addition. He's had two very ordinary years and this year he didn't look interested at all... a fresh coat of black and white paint and if he gets back to 2010... handy indeed.

Nah it's just speculation for mine. The enticement is he played some good footy for a short time in his career. Truth is he took a long while to establish himself and petered out again pretty quickly. You occasionally win one of these but Russell wasn't wanted by Carlton nor anyone else during the free agency time for a reason.

He will be a bonus if he can string together a few senior games but should be good experience for our VFL youngsters.

 

[Gone Critical]

If you lost Cloke, Dawes, Reid, Brown and pretty much every back-up KPP on your list to the point you upgrade a rookie two games back from a knee injury you might have a point. But you didn't and you don't. Funny thing is, that when the Pies were most hit by injury they looked very average, but as the injury list improved, you moved up the ladder. Carlton went the other way, up the ladder at the start of the season, and then slid as they went further down the road than any other club injury wise, ending up with something like 41 players used by years end.

The caveat that needs to be added here is Carlton's form had already slumped before their big injury run came. Little too easy to blame Carlton's season on injuries alone. The Ess, Adel, St K and Port losses were not explained by injury. It was those losses that wrecked Carltons season.

As for Collingwood our injuries and form didn't coincide that much. Our best wins of the year came against Adelaide in Adelaide and Sydney in Sydney. In Adelaide Ball, Krak, Caff, Ben Johnson, Brown, Reid at least were injured and Keefe did an ACL after we had already used our sub. Sydney we were also missing plenty plus Daisy in the 1st Q.

You are drawing too strong a parallel between both sides form and injuries.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

LOL what did you win??

Games against us NO

The Flag no

So what did you win??

Sydney won everyone else lost.

We kept winning the majority of our games despite the mounting injury toll. I think this shows that our players/club have some character and backbone and embrace adversity. This is completely the opposite of the Carlton Football Club. As soon as things got tough and injuries hit, your depth was shown up and excuses were used to justify such a lack of character. Collingwood didn't look like winning the flag this year but to keep winning and make the top four shows a vast difference in attitude between our two clubs. Of course Sydeny won and you beat us twice last year - no excuses from us. The fact that you are so willing to use injuries as an excuse to not even make the eight demonstrates an acceptance of mediocrity and builds a poor culture. But like you have previously said, you'll probably spout some nonsense about the depth and significance of your injury toll. I suggest you have a look at games missed by best 22 players at Collingwood, might surprise you. Also, don't forget to mention that you were one kick away from a prelim in 2011, so are a sure thing to make the top four in 2013.

Maybe make the top four first and earn some respect before you shoot your mouth off. Now stop wasting my time you amateur.

 

[Monkey King]

The caveat that needs to be added here is Carlton's form had already slumped before their big injury run came. Little too easy to blame Carlton's season on injuries alone. The Ess, Adel, St K and Port losses were not explained by injury. It was those losses that wrecked Carltons season.

"Were not explained by injury". A little ambiguous there. But I think your claim of the form slump before injury set in is way off. The injury crisis began before round one with Waite, Walker and Laidler gone and Yarran in and out due to turf-toe, Jammo and Judd carrying injuries and compounded from there. As other key players went down, these became bigger issues. Starting with Carrots in the midfield.

The Essendon game I agree, although lost Carrots during the match. But after round 6 Carlton were 5-1 and second on the ladder by percentage with the injury rot well and truly setting in. The StKilda game I agree with also and I actually predicted a loss, as we seemed to just **** around as a team and coaching group against GWS the week before. Did not seem switched on as a group. By Adelaide's game though, we lost Murphy and Hendo to injury. Yarran just not recovering, Kreuzer struggling with his knee ... and from there it just got worse, with even our back-ups dropping like flies.

As for Collingwood our injuries and form didn't coincide that much. Our best wins of the year came against Adelaide in Adelaide and Sydney in Sydney. In Adelaide Ball, Krak, Caff, Ben Johnson, Brown, Reid at least were injured and Keefe did an ACL after we had already used our sub. Sydney we were also missing plenty plus Daisy in the 1st Q.

You are drawing too strong a parallel between both sides form and injuries.

You're talking about one off games ... I'm talking about season trends. I could point out Carlton win over the Pies in the middle of our injury rut, but that's not the trend.

 

[laminex]

Maybe make the top four first and earn some respect before you shoot your mouth off. Now stop wasting my time you amateur.

hahaha i love it when total losers base respect on footy or a club, i could not give a flying **** what u think or if you live or die to be honest.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

hahaha i love it when total losers base respect on footy or a club, i could not give a flying **** what u think or if you live or die to be honest.

Well argued yet againt, you mental giant. Really picked apart my points one by one.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Well argued yet againt, you mental giant. Really picked apart my points one by one.

Herpa Derpa

 

[Jeremias]

Well argued yet againt, you mental giant. Really picked apart my points one by one.

There were points to pick apart?

 

[Wayne Arnold]

Disagree with this. He was a good coach, but not good enough to get the players to buy into his game plan. Similar to what another poster is saying about charater/attitude, to many players on our list were playing for themselves and not the team.

Champion Team vs Team of Champions....etc

Herpa derpa. Two can play if it really matters.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Herpa derpa. Two can play if it really matters.

Im not the one calling people "Mental Giants". You start playing the man, you'll get called on it.

lrn2forumn00bz

 

[Gone Critical]

"

You're talking about one off games ... I'm talking about season trends. I could point out Carlton win over the Pies in the middle of our injury rut, but that's not the trend.

No. I am also looking at our 10 game winnig streak the was sandwiched by the Carlton losses. By that time Ball, Krakouer and Macaffer were all gone for the duration and Keefe(4), Brown(3), Reid (5), Tarrant (9), Didak(5) and Pendlebury(4) all missed multiple matches.

I am not trying to make this a pissing contest just point out that your assertion that Collingwoods form trended along with our injury situation. It didn't.

"Were not explained by injury". A little ambiguous there. But I think your claim of the form slump before injury set in is way off. The injury crisis began before round one with Waite, Walker and Laidler gone and Yarran in and out due to turf-toe, Jammo and Judd carrying injuries and compounded from there. As other key players went down, these became bigger issues. Starting with Carrots in the midfield.

The Essendon game I agree, although lost Carrots during the match. But after round 6 Carlton were 5-1 and second on the ladder by percentage with the injury rot well and truly setting in. The StKilda game I agree with also and I actually predicted a loss, as we seemed to just **** around as a team and coaching group against GWS the week before. Did not seem switched on as a group. By Adelaide's game though, we lost Murphy and Hendo to injury. Yarran just not recovering, Kreuzer struggling with his knee ... and from there it just got worse, with even our back-ups dropping like flies.
.

It is illustrative in a way that you describe the "injury crisis" as beginning before round 1. Despite the best football your club has player in well over a decade you were already in "injury crisis". It's too easy an escape and excuse.

Injuries played a factor in Carlons 2012 season but they can't explain away those early season losses. If you were satisfied that the Essendon, St Kilda, Adelaide and Port losses can be explained away by injury you are easily pleased. Then again having been down for so long does lead to such thinking. It's a long way away from the "We're Carlton F-ck the rest mentality" your mob once aspired to.

 

[chunkylover53]

Yeah gotta say the problems with Carlton's season went far beyond injuries I thought.