What's going on with Carlton's list

[forwardflanker]

Whilst it is clear you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, I'll still give you a response.

You clearly don't know much about the Jacobs you are talking about, but I believe we are talking about the same player. Jacobs told the club he wanted to return to his home state, South Australia, we didn't want to get rid of him. He also wasn't one of the best ruckmen in the league when he did depart, in fact he was nowhere near it. Here's a fun fact for you - in his final year at Carlton, Sam Jacobs played more senior games than both Warnock and Hampson, and the same amount as Kreuzer. Quite simply, you are trolling if you believe that indicates that we didn't rate him, or that we didn't want to keep him.

If that wasn't enough to convince me that you are trolling, you then go on to question the trade for Chris Judd. A topic which has been done to death. It doesn't matter how many times it is re-visited, if you think Carlton regrets that trade you simply don't understand Chris Judd, or the impact he's had on the club.

Grigg wasn't prepared to put in the hard yards to cement a senior spot, so he took the easy way out and went to Richmond. Believe me, there are very few Carlton supporters losing any sleep over his departure.

Now, no doubt you'll either completely ignore this post, or try to twist it in a way which somehow supports your 'argument' (read: troll) - there's nothing surer. May I suggest you venture to Bay 13 where you may be a little less out of your depth?

Seems as if the course of this thread has made a slight tangent from Carlton supporters making excuses for their performances against GC and Port, to Carlton supporters now making excuses as to why they can't develop or keep their talent. I think we need to pursue this line for a while. Has any club in recent years let more quality go than Carlton? Will Carlton ultimately regret letting go of talent such as Jacobs, Kennedy and Grigg as well as overlooking players of the quality of Cotchin in the draft. Is the current Carlton recruiting and development staff up to scratch or is a clean out needed? Can Carlton win a flag using their 'quick fix' strategy that has failed them the last decade, and if not, how long will it take for them to change to a more long term strategy?

Discuss.

 

[forwardflanker]

ouch. delays in appointing an assistant midfield coach. Would Ling, Mcleod or Cheesy be better coaches than Brad Green? Who knows? A quick glance at current league coaches would perhaps show a high number who started as 'low profile' assistants.

The difference is that Ling, McCloud and O'Bree were proper midfielders who could find the footy in packs. It's not like Brad Green is going to bring much to the table anyway, Bryce Gibbs is already the best in the AFL for skirting packs - what other skills would Green be able to teach him?

 

[blueboy25]

Will Carlton ultimately regret letting go of talent such as Jacobs, Kennedy and Grigg as well as overlooking players of the quality of Cotchin in the draft.

Will Collingwood ultimately regret letting go of talent such as Wellingham and Dawes and trying to replace them with quick fixes such as Lynch and Young.

 

[forwardflanker]

Will Collingwood ultimately regret letting go of talent such as Wellingham and Dawes and trying to replace them with quick fixes such as Lynch and Young.

Didn't think that one through did ya Our 'quick fixes' are the two top 20 draft picks we basically got for free because of those trades. Not to mention the cap space we freed up. Think before you post next time, or go back to your own board and spout your rubbish there

 

[Buzz/Sticks/bryce]

The difference is that Ling, McCloud and O'Bree were proper midfielders who could find the footy in packs. It's not like Brad Green is going to bring much to the table anyway, Bryce Gibbs is already the best in the AFL for skirting packs - what other skills would Green be able to teach him?

Well, Ross Lyon the player and Ross Lyon the coach were 2 very different beasts. Green may or may not become a good coach. I'm not interested in assuming one way or another.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Out of curiosity what would Carlton fans say their best 22 is? I'll have a crack but this is probably a fair way off:

B: Laidler Jamison Tuohy
HB: Scotland Henderson Yarran
C: Carrazzo Gibbs Simpson
HF: Murphy Waite Walker
F: Betts Casboult Garlett
Foll: Kreuzer Judd McLean
Int: Hampson Armfield Robinson
Sub: Lucas

On exposed form and for team balance, that's pretty close. Lucas is in MM's plans this year but on exposed form Duigan is there before him. Can't fault the rest having the inside running at the moment.

 

[forwardflanker]

Well, Ross Lyon the player and Ross Lyon the coach were 2 very different beasts. Green may or may not become a good coach. I'm not interested in assuming one way or another.

Seriously though, you have to admit that Carlton are having about as much trouble recruiting players and staff as Port Adelaide. Any idea what's keeping everyone away?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

As irrelevant as this is to the topic at hand, I'll bite. Richmond were missing just as many significant players, if not more, than Carlton were at that point, and fielded a less experienced lineup.

Not being a smart arse but who were the 'just as many significant players' that were missing from the Tigers lineup?

Also a game of semantics but the Tigers 22 was 68 games more experienced in total and 49 days older on average.

Carlton looked younger than we were because we had 4 players with 4 games or less to their credit whilst the Tigers least experienced player had 16 games.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Seriously though, you have to admit that Carlton are having about as much trouble recruiting players and staff as Port Adelaide. Any idea what's keeping everyone away?

In all honesty ... probably Malthouse. It's his way or the highway obviously so I imagine it would be a high pressure work environment.

 

[Buzz/Sticks/bryce]

Seriously though, you have to admit that Carlton are having about as much trouble recruiting players and staff as Port Adelaide. Any idea what's keeping everyone away?

I think I do. They've been reading the main board on BF and have abandoned ship. All hope is lost.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Seems as if the course of this thread has made a slight tangent from Carlton supporters making excuses for their performances against GC and Port, to Carlton supporters now making excuses as to why they can't develop or keep their talent. I think we need to pursue this line for a while. Has any club in recent years let more quality go than Carlton? Will Carlton ultimately regret letting go of talent such as Jacobs, Kennedy and Grigg as well as overlooking players of the quality of Cotchin in the draft. Is the current Carlton recruiting and development staff up to scratch or is a clean out needed? Can Carlton win a flag using their 'quick fix' strategy that has failed them the last decade, and if not, how long will it take for them to change to a more long term strategy?

Discuss.

Trying to milk this thread for all it's worth huh? We regret not having Kennedy but do not regret the reason for losing him. Judd means more to the club given where it was than retaining Kennedy at a rudderless club would have.

Grigg is no world beater. Switches like that happen regularly ... next.

Jacobs was largely beyond our control, was on a par with the others, wanted to play first ruck and we had invested more in the others. Good on him for going home and excelling. Maybe being home was the catalyst for his form surge. Cest la vie.

 

[blueboy25]

Good on him for going home and excelling. Maybe being home was the catalyst for his form surge. Cest la vie.

Wellingham will most likely be in the same boat, headed home to play in a strong midfield with a good coach.

 

[forwardflanker]

In all honesty ... probably Malthouse. It's his way or the highway obviously so I imagine it would be a high pressure work environment.

Given the amount of senior coaches who were once Malthouse assistants you'd think they'd be queuing up?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Given the amount of senior coaches who were once Malthouse assistants you'd think they'd be queuing up?

Malthouse has made it clear he wants fewer coaches and will have an authoritarian presence. Maybe that was an issue? Maybe the fact we just sacked a heap of contracted coaches was an issue?

Either way, before that we had no problem getting coaches to the club.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

On exposed form and for team balance, that's pretty close. Lucas is in MM's plans this year but on exposed form Duigan is there before him. Can't fault the rest having the inside running at the moment.

It's a decent side on paper with the only concerns being Casboult and Hampson - maybe top four quality. What do you think Mick will do with the game plan? I don't think a boundary game plan with contested footy will suit your players. Think it will be counterproductive to their strenghts. In my opinion your best footy has been quick ball movement through the middle and into an open forward line. Do you think Mick will embrace this type of play with perhaps a balance between attack and defense? Or do you think he will stick to his trusted formula of the boundary at all costs? Will be interesting to see which approach he adopts.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It's a decent side on paper with the only concerns being Casboult and Hampson - maybe top four quality. What do you think Mick will do with the game plan? I don't think a boundary game plan with contested footy will suit your players. Think it will be counterproductive to their strenghts. In my opinion your best footy has been quick ball movement through the middle and into an open forward line. Do you think Mick will embrace this type of play with perhaps a balance between attack and defense? Or do you think he will stick to his trusted formula of the boundary at all costs? Will be interesting to see which approach he adopts.

The sounds he has been making started off talking about going with our strengths, but since has put defence first and foremost. This suggests we will be defensive minded and use the corridor on the rebound.

 

[forwardflanker]

The sounds he has been making started off talking about going with our strengths, but since has put defence first and foremost. This suggests we will be defensive minded and use the corridor on the rebound.

I remember somewhere Malthouse saying he's been using the same gameplan for the past decade and nothings gonna change which would suggest that it will be defensive again which almost certainly means round the boundary imo. Will be interesting to see how it goes down. I'd suggest that it will work very well against everyone not in the top 4-6 sides however these days it's pretty questionable as to whether it works against the more talented and disciplined defenses. In spite of what the press said we played a very similar style this season and were clearly found out by Sydney and Hawthorn who were both very disciplined in their defensive games.

 

[Monkey King]

Why not formwise? Round 4-14 for mine was clearly Collingwoods best form run for the year as well as 10 wins on the trot. It coincided with our injury run being at its worst. When did you see our form being at its best?

From my perspective from the back end of June to when you lost to North I thought your best form was rearing again; despite the losses to Hawthorn and the Blues.

My point is it's too easy to blame injuies.

Who is blaming injuries? It is beyond obvious the impact injuries had on Carlton's season. For guys like forwardflanker et al. to act as though last season is just the state of the Carlton list is pure ignorance. There is no point trying to spin that around into something else.

And did you watch the Adelaide game? We'd been playing pretty well to when to when Murphy went down. Like I said, they're a good side and the Blues were a well and truly injury affected list by that stage; whereas you've suggested this match was before any injury issues ... so again; what's you actual point here? Rather than me pointing out you're wrong re injury at this stage and then you taking another "can't blame injury" tangent, how about you get back to your original point and explain it for me?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I remember somewhere Malthouse saying he's been using the same gameplan for the past decade and nothings gonna change which would suggest that it will be defensive again which almost certainly means round the boundary imo. Will be interesting to see how it goes down. I'd suggest that it will work very well against everyone not in the top 4-6 sides however these days it's pretty questionable as to whether it works against the more talented and disciplined defenses. In spite of what the press said we played a very similar style this season and were clearly found out by Sydney and Hawthorn who were both very disciplined in their defensive games.

No, he said that he has always been a firm believer that defence wins premierships so that won't change. That's a fundamental belief of the Carlton Football Club too by the way. Silvagni, Southby, Doull ... some golden eras there.

However, when he arrived, he said you form a game plan around the strengths of your players, not the other way around. I'd suggest that Carlton have more pace than the Pies so will still take the game on. I reckon it won't be 'look inside at every opportunity' as per the successful Geelong sides but not necessarily right around the boundary either. It will be a mixture but fast moving.

 

[Buzz/Sticks/bryce]

I remember somewhere Malthouse saying he's been using the same gameplan for the past decade and nothings gonna change which would suggest that it will be defensive again which almost certainly means round the boundary imo. Will be interesting to see how it goes down. I'd suggest that it will work very well against everyone not in the top 4-6 sides however these days it's pretty questionable as to whether it works against the more talented and disciplined defenses. In spite of what the press said we played a very similar style this season and were clearly found out by Sydney and Hawthorn who were both very disciplined in their defensive games.

Yep. Amazing your decline from powerhouse to better than average in a very short space of time. out: Malthouse, Neeld, Watters. In: ? All this talk about Brad Green has been a pleasant little deflection. Dawes, Wellingham ut, Lynch , Young: in. (+ amazingly talented draftees no doubt). I think the Collingwood list management this off season has been HORRENDOUS. Maybe do a little self analysis before looking over the neighbours fence.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

Yep. Amazing your decline from powerhouse to better than average in a very short space of time. out: Malthouse, Neeld, Watters. In: ? All this talk about Brad Green has been a pleasant little deflection. Dawes, Wellingham ut, Lynch , Young: in. (+ amazingly talented draftees no doubt). I think the Collingwood list management this off season has been HORRENDOUS. Maybe do a little self analysis before looking over the neighbours fence.

If Dawes is such a key out, why didn't you guys make a play for him? Surely he could have at least eased the pressure on Levi and Big Squidda?

 

[Buzz/Sticks/bryce]

If Dawes is such a key out, why didn't you guys make a play for him? Surely he could have at least eased the pressure on Levi and Big Squidda?

Well.. 1. We would have been screwed in a trade to get him
and 2. He has no more size or talent than Mitchell or Casboult, just games under the belt.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

Well.. 1. We would have been screwed in a trade to get him
and 2. He has no more size or talent than Mitchell or Casboult, just games under the belt.

So you don't rate him?

 

[Ted38]

Trying to milk this thread for all it's worth huh? We regret not having Kennedy but do not regret the reason for losing him. Judd means more to the club given where it was than retaining Kennedy at a rudderless club would have.

Grigg is no world beater. Switches like that happen regularly ... next.

Jacobs was largely beyond our control, was on a par with the others, wanted to play first ruck and we had invested more in the others. Good on him for going home and excelling. Maybe being home was the catalyst for his form surge. Cest la vie.

Maybe Carlton failed to recognize that he was good enough to play first ruck??

 

[Buzz/Sticks/bryce]

So you don't rate him?

I rate him higher than Q Lynch