Maybe Carlton failed to recognize that he was good enough to play first ruck??
Either that, or we were ok for ruck talent. Maybe W.C will rookie a ruckman who won't have a chance of getting past NicNat and Cox?
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Maybe Carlton failed to recognize that he was good enough to play first ruck??
On what basis, marking ability, goal kicking, rucking?I rate him higher than Q Lynch
On what basis, marking ability, goal kicking, rucking?
Please specify what aspects of his game are better. Granted, he is younger.6 years younger. Talent equal.
Please specify what aspects of his game are better. Granted, he is younger.
How is it a bad trade as if you said, their talent is equal and we also get a first round draft pick? Sounds like a good deal to me. So in all honesty, we've established that Dawes ain't much of a loss. By the time Q Stick hangs up the boots our young draft pick will be playing well in the seniors. Happy days.I think Dawes is a little more mobile than Lynch and , when CONFIDENT, far more likely to change the course of a game. Lynch is a thumping kick and a little better in the ruck. Whichever black and white way you want to view this, its a bad trade.
How is it a bad trade as if you said, their talent is equal and we also get a first round draft pick? Sounds like a good deal to me. So in all honesty, we've established that Dawes ain't much of a loss. By the time Q Stick hangs up the boots our young draft pick will be playing well in the seniors. Happy days.
You and I both know that the majority of impartial viewers believe Collingwood absolutely nailed the FA and Trade period. So don't pretend otherwise. You don't rate Dawes, I don't rate Dawes, either way it doesn't matter. Unlike Carlton, at Collingwood we don't stand still waiting for things to happen, we get on the front foot and make things happen. Brad Green doesn't count. Im sure he's just as confused as you as to how he finds himself employed as an assistant coach.We,ve established that Collingwood supporters aint missin' Dawes. I hear your time frames and list management back-slapping. And go the as yet nameless draftee. What a jet
Seems as if the course of this thread has made a slight tangent from Carlton supporters making excuses for their performances against GC and Port, to Carlton supporters now making excuses as to why they can't develop or keep their talent. I think we need to pursue this line for a while. Has any club in recent years let more quality go than Carlton? Will Carlton ultimately regret letting go of talent such as Jacobs, Kennedy and Grigg as well as overlooking players of the quality of Cotchin in the draft. Is the current Carlton recruiting and development staff up to scratch or is a clean out needed? Can Carlton win a flag using their 'quick fix' strategy that has failed them the last decade, and if not, how long will it take for them to change to a more long term strategy?
Discuss.
There's beginning to be a disturbing trend of Carlton players being traded away who end up becoming quality AFL players. When you see guys like Kennedy, Jacobs and Grigg all leaving and turning into quality AFL players questions have to be asked of the football department. Carlton have the worst recruiting and development staff in the AFL imo - even worse than Melbourne!
You and I both know that the majority of impartial viewers believe Collingwood absolutely nailed the FA and Trade period. So don't pretend otherwise.
Unlike Carlton, at Collingwood we don't stand still waiting for things to happen ...
The wise coach also used to say that if you stand still you will eventually be passed. Maybe the two approaches are mutually exclusive in this instance. Otherwise there seems to be some form of contradiction.You'd be wise to take heed of the words of a great coach - don't mistake activity for achievement
If you had been keeping up, you would realise that Carlton wanted to keep him. To that point though, he had shown no more than any of our other young rucks. We were selecting our ruckman based on form that year, and all showed potential. Let's not turn it into something it is not. This isn't politics.Maybe Carlton failed to recognize that he was good enough to play first ruck??
The wise coach also used to say that if you stand still you will eventually be passed.
Exactly as I thought. Terrible troll is terrible. You couldn't even identify the topic of this thread.
That would because the Collingwood side is in decline. You often played 3 guys in their first season in the ones who struggled (wasn't Yagamoor meant to be a direct replacement for Leon?). Players like Didak, Jolly and Johnson are past it. Daisy, Shaw and O'Brien are a shadow of the players they were 2 years ago as AA's. Key defenders struggled to stay on the park. Cloke was playing himself. It may seem that Collingwood had a reasonable season but they lost 3 times as many regular season games.I remember somewhere Malthouse saying he's been using the same gameplan for the past decade and nothings gonna change which would suggest that it will be defensive again which almost certainly means round the boundary imo. Will be interesting to see how it goes down. I'd suggest that it will work very well against everyone not in the top 4-6 sides however these days it's pretty questionable as to whether it works against the more talented and disciplined defenses. In spite of what the press said we played a very similar style this season and were clearly found out by Sydney and Hawthorn who were both very disciplined in their defensive games.
Sorry, didn't see the part where you noted Carlton will be participating in the draft. I guess other clubs should follow suit.
Actually the reason we still managed to finish in the 4 and not lose to sides like the GC and Port is because with injuries we were able to successfully bring in young players who were able to contribute to our wins. When Carlton brought their youth in they failed miserable which is why I contend that their is a youth crisis down at optus which is basically the whole point of this thread. Nice try thoughThat would because the Collingwood side is in decline. You often played 3 guys in their first season in the ones who struggled (wasn't Yagamoor meant to be a direct replacement for Leon?). Players like
No, I think I was being slightly condescending in the previous post. I was pointing out that Mick (or any coach for that matter) can spout off lines after the fact to suit what has passed (inactivity and all that nonsense). It's all just a bit of spin. But hey, you moved on a few coaches, poached Brad Green and will take part in the draft, so I guess you ain't standing still.Ahh Wayne, you do the stereotype of the Collingwood supporter struggling with literacy proud
From my perspective from the back end of June to when you lost to North I thought your best form was rearing again; despite the losses to Hawthorn and the Blues.
1 Collingwood were starting from a higher base so while the managed to stay in the top 4 they still lost 3 times as many games in 2012 in a weaker year than 2011. Sign a side in decline.Actually the reason we still managed to finish in the 4 and not lose to sides like the GC and Port is because with injuries we were able to successfully bring in young players who were able to contribute to our wins. When Carlton brought their youth in they failed miserable which is why I contend that their is a youth crisis down at optus which is basically the whole point of this thread. Nice try though
Actually it was I who created this thread, so perhaps it's you who needs to go back and reread the op. Anyway we have moved on from the topic of the op which was addressed in the first 10 or so pages. I suggest you read them but the cliff-notes are that Carlton supporters think they have the best young players in the game whereas the supporters of every other club believe there has been a genuine crisis of youth at Optus which has lead to such a disappointing result in not making the 8 and losing to Port and GC.
There has also been smatterings of Bryce Gibbs form throughout the thread however this point is largely not in contention - even Carlton supporters are prepared to admit that he is a major disappointment and needs to work on his attack on the ball.
I predict that over the next 10 or so pages we will continue on the current line of argument, that is why Carlton can't develop any quality youth, and why when this youth leave they run into all Australian form. For mine Carlton is like the Bermuda triangle of recruiting and development. It's simply defies explanation as to how the best young talent in Australia can disappear or transform into Bryce Gibbs or Andrew Walker as soon as they arrive at Visy.
So Collingwood drop from second to fourth and are in decline but Carlton drop from fifth to tenth and everything is rosey?